camtech L20

[james burchfield]

Does anyone have a camtech L20? I am trying to get general information but there tech support is the worst i have ever experienced, every time i call i get voice mail and my calls are never returned.

[Gary Hair]

I did a search on cnczone.com and there were lots of hits, you might want to try there.

Gary

[james burchfield]

Thanks, However i have tried there with no reply so i figured id ask here also.

[james burchfield]

Tried again and finally got through to tech support... I was told that no one is trained on the machine but a tech will be attending training next week and to call back at a later date. AXYZ bought out camtech a while back...

[Vaughan Raymond]

I have a Camtech laser. What information are you looking for?

[james burchfield]

Hi, Thanks for replying my question is that the L20 is an open system so what kind of ventilation do you need to set up?

[Paul Perkinson]

Hi James. Haven't been on the forum for a very long time and just happened to drop by for a visit today when I saw your question. I've been using an L20 for more than 7 years and just yesterday received all the parts I need to upgrade it to 50 watts (it tests at 63) and add a water chiller. Just my personal opinion (don't want to get sued), but there never was any decent support from Camtech and that situation did not improve one iota after AXYZ bought them out. I've tried to get them to help out about half a dozen times and it sure seems like no matter how you describe the different problems that come up the solution is always the same: "you need to replace the electronics in your black box, buy ArtCam from us (> $7,000 USD), and have us test/overhaul the entire system for only $22,500 plus travel expenses for our tech". Maybe it's just me, but that seems more like robbery than support, especially when my paperwork from the original sale states I am supposed to get any and all software upgrades free fas long as I own the machine. By changing to a completely different software solution they apparently can brush aside that "free upgrades for life" business. Sorry for the long rant, but using that little pressure relief valve just brightened my day.

BTW... the very good news, from my perspective anyway, is that the L20 truly is a dependable work horse. Once we got used to each other there have been very few issues. Had to replace the drive chains once, the x-axis motor a couple of years ago, and the y-axis motor last year. All are normal, expected Other than that I learned (the hard way) to inspect it stem to stern once a month and keep every screw, nut, and bolt head tightened appropriately.

Now, I hope I haven't lost your attention or put you to sleep yet - If you have the "Extraction Hose Antenna" that would have been part of the original shipment from CamTech, I recommend using it as part of the solution. There are 2 threaded studs located at the bottom of the L20 frame (just forward of the center leg on the side opposite the black box) that hold that "antenna" in place. It is a simple, hollow, metal, 1" square tube assembly consisting of 2 subassemblies. The bottom subassembly is (obviously) the one fastened by those 2 threaded studs that go through the 2 holes in a small metal plate welded to the bottom of that tube. The tube then angles outward and upward something like 30° until it is 6 or 8 inches distance from the outer edge of the L20 frame and then goes straight vertical to about 4' high. It just has to be far enough away from the L20 frame that the gantry is never obstructed by it for any x-axis movements. The second piece forms an upside down "L" roughly 3' on each side. On the bottom of the vertical end of the upside down "L", an aluminum dowel (looks to have been coarsely machined or ground first and then fine-ground and or sanded to fit) has had about half of its 6" or so length epoxied or spot welded inside that "L" piece of the 1" square tubing. The other arm (bottom of the upside down "L", which can also accurately be called the top of the entire "antenna" assembly, has 3 approximately semi-circular aluminum rings facing open-side up and welded at their center points along its top side - one at each end of that arm and the last one in the center . When you slide the slightly tapered aluminum dowel that is attached to the top arm down into the hollow top of the lower piece it is snug enough and long enough to keep it securely in place until you decide to remove it but is also just free enough and smooth enough to allow the top arm to pivot freely - a full 360° if you so desired - to follow the gantry around.
The finishing touch to the "antenna" portion of the exhaust system is a 1.5" diameter hose. The hose CamTech provided with the system was a single, 30' long hose that is the same as the hoses used to connect swimming pool cleaning equipment except that those are usually distributed in 5 or 6 foot lengths. I don't see any reason you couldn't use those with some handy dandy duct (duck) tape to seal connections.
Ok, the J-series Synrad lasers that CamTech used on the L20s mount vertically on the gantry and the J48-2's have a long, clear plastic tube that runs pretty much top to bottom of the laser tube. It is curved laterally into a shape that's somewhere about half way between a semi-circle and a circle. The opening along the entire side of that tube, from top to bottom, is ever so slightly smaller than the width of the laser tube housing so gently easing the plastic tube around the housing allows it to grip enough to stay in place - for about the first 5 years or so - until at some point the elasticity of the acrylic decides to retire. CamTech also supplied 2 small pieces that are shaped kinda sorta like a serif "U", with the little arms pointing outward at the top of the "U". They attached them with a machine screw through each of those little arms and into the front laser plate; one near the top of the laser housing and the other near the bottom. Now, putting all this together so far...their intent was to have you run that "pool" hose starting as close to the L20 bed as possible, going inside those 2 "U" shaped guys, which means it would also be inside that clear plastic tube, leave adequate slack to reach all parts of the L20 table, and go to the 3 semicircular rings on the top arm of the "antenna" . The rings hold the hose well, but you can strap or tie the hose to one or more of those semicircles if desired.
From there we were pretty much left to cultivate our imaginations to decide what filtering is needed, should you push or pull the air, how much air does it have to move, should the room air be completely replaced at some magical rate, etc, etc, etc. Our experience here showed that using the system I just described - as is - wasn't going to get the job done even if we hooked up a C5 Galaxy jet engine to move the air. Full disclosure: I'm an EE, not an ME or Hydraulics or Pneumatics guy so it would be no surprise to me if somebody told me that if we had only used our left hands to put everything together everything would have worked perfectly. I'm only accountable for what we tried and what worked for us (unfortunately I also seem to be developing quite the knack for letting more and more little details I should be on top of slip right through both ear canals).
After achieving a tie with Edison for the number of experiments resulting in failures and talking with other businesses we work with that have encountered similar challenges, we feel pretty comfortable with our setup now. After rejecting and resurrecting CamTech's basic idea a few dozen times with slightly different levels of failure each time, we realized we were probably trying to get way too complicated with our proposed solutions. Ok,Ok, it was me - I admit it. I still think some of those inter-galactic exhaust collection station plans had a chance, but...oh, sorry.
All we really did to the manufacturer's furnished materials was build a very simple "containment unit" (using Ghostbuster labels is ok as long as the concept is simple) to ride along with the head. It's just simply an upside down box made from scrap acrylic that screws onto the J48-2 back plate and travels all over the place with its best friend, the Gas Jet Manifold. I don't have the dimensions with me, but it was very simple to figure out what we wanted; we moved the laser to the farthest position in each of the 4 cardinal directions to where it would still fire, measured the distance from there to the inside edge of the side rails, factored in gravity and the current rate of hair loss among us and there it was. You could probably get by using the "specs" and subtracting but that seemed a bit dull.
The other thing we finally discovered worked best for us concerning air movement was a small blower used for, among other things, bounce houses. If you look around a bit they are no strangers to Craig's list, eBay, etc. Definitely less than $100. Some of them are a bit loud; not so much that you don't hear some of your other equipment over the top of them a good bit. Depending on your setup you can put together some decently effective muffling strategies - just don't starve them for air or get careless and let the fumes escape before they are trapped or out of the area. We just made an aluminum adapter to match up the blowers intake with the "pool" hose and we push the outlet air through a filter/baffle system that we first used for painting. It works great.
I just realized I probably didn't say quite enough about the "box". We continually tweak it, but there are some basic "truths" we discovered for our implementations. Again, they may fly in the face of science, but we're happy anyway. Yes, it could just be that ignorance is bliss, but it's possible that's not be the only factor.
Generally...bigger is better (get your mind out of the gutter). The more area around the laser head that is under cover the better it seems to work for us. The depth of the box somewhat depends on how much air your blower or vacuum is moving. In general, volume increase due to an ability to cover more surface area = good. Volume increase due to an increase in the height of the box (all else being equal) = not so much.
I know lasers don't usually worry much about z-axis travel once they're focused, but "the box" works best when its as close to the project material's surface as possible.
Brush material attached to the bottom of the box and extending downward toward the project material's surface can add to the previous note. How close to the surface you can/should get has several variables such as brush stiffness, bristle concentration, uniformity of bristle length and direction, etc. It's mostly common sense and jumps out at you pretty quickly.
I also did not mention that we seal the connection of the "pool" hose to the box. Thought it was obvious, but then I miss obvious things all the time. We typically make the box adjustable to some extent. We don't use that flexibility as much any more. You tend to settle into certain things that you just "feel" are better than their alternatives even if you can't easily prove them. For example, I am convinced that a concave bottom (actually it's the top - I still always view the box as upside down) to the box (arching upward or cupped downward - same thing) improves the efficiency. Can't prove it and not everyone agrees with me, but I sleep better at night knowing I'm right.

Sorry for Olympian ramble. Not feeling up to working today so this has been a successful diversion to keep my mind off of me. Thanks. I do hope there are a couple of nuggets in there somewhere that help you out a bit. Best of luck. I believe you have a well built and well designed machine so long as it has had reasonable care and feeding. The software is archaic but we're in the process of replacing that. Really, I guess once you get used to it and know where Murphy's favorite hiding places are, it's not really worth griping about too much.

[Robert Gauntt]

Hi Raymond,
I just purchased a 2004 L20 Camtech laser. This laser has a chiller and coolant lines that run into the cover on the gantry behind the laser. I have two questions first I am getting some banding I cleaned and put a new lens. Its better but I am still getting some thin lines have you ever had this problem? If so what was the cause and what did you do to resolve it? Also when I use the smart raster the banding gets worse. Second as I mentioned this laser has a chiller with the lines going into the cover on gantry. Does yours have a chiller and if so have you ever taken off the cover on gantry where the lines go into. I would like to check the tension of the chain. I am a little nervous a don't want to open a can of worms and end up with more problems than I have now. Also is there a list of different speeds I can use and how do I get to them and set them? Would appreciate any help you can give finding any information for this laser is scarce and hard to find. I haven't found much of anything its been a little frustrating.
Thanks,
Bob

[Robert Gauntt]

Hi Paul,

As I mentioned I now own a 2004 L20 with a chiller and I am having some banding issues. Have you ever had a problems with banding and if so what did you do about it.
Thanks,
Bob