Testing a Harbor Freight hand file. Good News!

[george wilson]

It is indeed a sad day when we must go far afield in this once great manufacturing nation to find so basic,and yet so essential a tool as a hand file. When I was young,a file was my milling machine,and I removed cubic inches of steel with them,spending whole days doing what I could now do in minutes. But,it was great training.

Yesterday I went by a Harbor Freight store in Newport News,Va.,and decided to stop as I hadn't been to it before. Things like acid brushes are something I use often,and I knew they would be found there.

I came across their file section and for the sum of $1.99,I decided to try out an 8" mill file. It hasn't the teeth I use the most(smooth),but rather has what Nicholson would call bastard cut. Nicholson flat handled These teeth,however,are about 1/2 as coarse as the regular old Bastard cut Nicholsons,and are double cut. Rather like the flat handled Nicholson "lawn mower blade" files. Good for coarser metal removal. Save the finer files for finishing surfaces. I never liked the inaccuracy of the teeth on the sides of Asian files. They are usually out of square with the flat surfaces,but these were pretty square. The file is also STRAIGHT(most Nicholsons haven't been for a very long time. And,the thickness of this file is like the thickness of the OLD Nicholsons. Nicholsons had gotten thinner over the years,and most usually had a curve to them. The worst is an "S" shaped curve where neither side is flat. You can't very well use an S shaped file to generate flat surfaces(unless you use short strokes,using only the convex part of the S shape!!) There is NO guarantee that all their files will be straight,OR have squarely cut sides. Examine EVERY file you buy. I hated plastic packaged files as you can't examine them for straightness. These were not packaged.

THE GOOD NEWS: This file is FULLY HARDENED!! It was just as hard as an old USA Nicholson I tested it's hardness with. I tested BOTH ends of the HF file,and both ends are perfectly hardened.

The teeth are quite evenly cut,and the file performed quite suitably on a piece of scrap mild steel. I don't know if the file will last as long as a good old USA file,but it seemed fine during the test. Being Chinese,I don't expect that his file is made of high carbon tool steel. Even if it is made of mild steel,case hardened,the surface is all that really matters,providing the case hardening is deep enough. I could only determine the depth of the case hardening by breaking the file in half,which I hate to do. Should have bought more than 1 I suppose,but I'd just had a large epidural in my back,and was feeling a bit strange and wanted to get home.

I can quibble that the file's sides aren't curved quite like the old Nicholsons,and I don't like the cheesy plastic(rather sticky) handle(which I cannot get off short of sawing it into pieces!) ,but,what the hey!! It's a USEFUL $1.99 file!!

I could not see a smooth 8" file for sale singly,though there was 1 included if you bought the plastic packaged assortment. It could be that they were just out of stock. I didn't ask because a question about the acid brushes took a great flurry to answer,and I needed to get home. Another time,I'll investigate further.

P.S.: In the past centuries,many files were made by case hardening them. While I can recommend this particular file, I have not examined their other files. I always find cheap sets of needle files to not be tapered enough,coming to their points too bluntly. And,often,they have flat spots on their corners where there are no teeth. On the best old needle files,the very edges are quite acute. I didn't look closely at their other shapes of files either,because of my injection I needed to leave . I'll report more another time when I'm down there,and I'll examine several of this same file I tested to see how consistent they are on the squareness of sides,straightness,etc.. You DO need to examine every file you buy,though. I can't see how the Chinese made this file to sell for $1.99.(Well,I know,cheap wages,etc.) But they did a good job on this one!

[Jim Rimmer]

Thanks, George. I may have to check out some HF files.

[Barry Richardson]

Thanks for the review! I bought a set of riffer rasps there and they seem to work fine as well, but Im no expert...

[george wilson]

The trouble with cheap rifflers is that their ends do not CURVE: They invariably are just bent and have flat surfaces,rather than the curves they should have. This makes them not very useful for filing things like curved grooves.

I think the problem with some items is that the Chinese just do not use them traditionally,and do not have a true idea of how they should be made. The same applies to them making things like table saws and other machines. They just haven't used them,and do not have a good grasp of their functions. This was mentioned in a writeup I read a while back from a craftsman visiting Tawian. He saw some workers getting ready to re model an office. They had no machines. They set up a folding plywood workbench,and did the panelling by hand entirely.

IF I HAD TO,I'd heat up the rifflers good and red hot,and bend them between 2 hardwood dowels set close together in a block of hard wood. This to prevent damaging the soft,red hot file teeth. The dowels would catch fire,and might need renewing. Another quick heating,and quench them in water. It would be an excellent idea to coat the files in Kasenit(which is no longer made,use "Cherry Red",or another similar compound. OR,at least get them up to blue,and dip them in PBC No Scale,sold by Brownell's gunsmith supply. This keeps the surface from decarbing and being soft like Mexican Nicholsons I tested some time ago.

When I have made rifflers,this was my technique. After quenching the rifflers I made,I would dip them in water and heat them till the water sizzled,wait about 1 second,and quench again. Old timers called this "Taking the snap out of it",a very MILD form of tempering,to retain close to 65 rockwell hardness,but to add a little mechanical strength to the steel.

[Zach Dillinger]

That's great news George. I drive within a mile or so of a Harbor Freight almost every day. I'll stop in and grab a couple and test 'em. Then we can see if you got lucky, or if they really do make a decent file.

[george wilson]

I plan to by more in a few weeks when I re visit the doctor who did the epidural. I'll report. Still,I can't much like the idea of using Chinese files. They just don't LOOK quite right!! That isn't important,though. My sense of design getting in the way.

[Zach Dillinger]

I guess you can still get Kasenit from muzzleloader supply shops, where they use it to case harden the frizzen on muskets, just in case anybody is desperate to get some.

[Gary Herrmann]

Hmm. I wonder if there will be a Wilson affect (effect?) on HF files...

[Jeff Wittrock]

Was it one like this George?

236734

I've been using one for a while and was very surprised at how it has held up.

[george wilson]

Yes,except the handle had a gray insert. I must buy another file and break it in half so T can see if the core is soft,indicating case hardening just for fun. Jon,my journeyman came over and looked st the file. We bioth think it is a decent file,and that many in times past were case hardened. Unless they casehardened the dickens out of these files,they should be soft in the core.

[Trevor Walsh]

After all your talk about Nicholsons I took a peek through the local good hardware store, mostly mexicans, some brazilian and one from another far off place I doubt would be good. On the positive side when I got to the counter to check out a large assortment of canning supplies, I delightfully found two Nicholson No.3 pillar files as well as a quantity of those Nicholson riffler files with the tapered and curved ends you mentioned. I believe they were #3's as well.

[John Coloccia]

Now I've heard everything.

[john davey]

Well, there is a list floating on the internet of things that are worth it at HF. I am sure George has enough clout to get them to add this to the list :). There is a HF across the street from one of my local watering holes so I will check it out. I followed the other file threads acne checked my local borgs and an Ace HW that is pretty good, Mexico and Brazil is all I found. Thanks George for pointing this out ....

[george wilson]

I know,John. I usually see out of square sides on Chinese files,and less than perfect teeth,but this one was pretty o.k.,and definitely a user. And,I'm a very particular user.

[David Weaver]

Well, at least I'll have something to buy the next time the FIL wants to go to HF. I built my first two infills with an 8" mill file that had the sides ground off and a couple of modified saw files. It's a nice size to have around. If you and John both find it acceptable, if they are consistent, everyone else should, too.

[george wilson]

I don't know what John thinks!! He just said now he's heard everything!!:) Making sure they are consistent,and carefully selecting them is important,I think,based on the lack of quality control I've seen in other Chinese products. Check them for straightness and square sides for sure.

[John Coloccia]

What I think:

I've used Harbor Freight files back when I was airplane building. I was just using them to do light de-burring and cleaning up die marks on aluminum, so it didn't really matter too much if they were high quality or not. For serious work, I used a Vixen file, and those were NICE. The HF files worked OK on aluminum. Not nearly the quality of a good Nicholson (and 10 years ago, they were good), but they cost pennies and I needed a lot of different shapes and sizes so they were fine. I wasn't impressed with the surface they left, and I always thought they clogged pretty quickly.

I'd like to think George found a good source for decent file, but my experience with HF is that sometimes they accidentally get something right. I really like the tie down straps they sell. The are (or at least were) good quality and cheap. I have over a dozen of them and I used to buy them when they went on sale for $1.99. Their air fittings seem to work OK. Their swivels are garbage, but so is every other swivel I've ever tried...they all break and leak eventually. A lot of their air tools work well, but spit oil all over the place. Some of their spray guns actually aren't too terrible...nothing like a high quality gun, but much better than you'd expect for $20. They carry Goodyear air line....thumbs up. Their engine hoist is nice. Some of their Mill/Lathe tools can be made to work well with some effort.

Their C clamps are nice. From what I've seen so far, their dial indicators and micrometers are garbage.

The next time I'm in the area, I'll drop by HF and check out some of their files. It's very possible that this is one of their gems. They definitely do have some high quality items mixed in with the rest of the junk they carry.

[george wilson]

That they sometimes get something right may be accurate!! However, I have heard quite a few good comments about their disc grinders,Fein knock off multimasters,and a number of other electric tools they sell. I doubt that their multimaster copys will last as long as the real Fein,but they cost only about 10% of the real thing. For non continuous use,they may be o.k.. Actually,unless you are a trim carpenter,this is not a frequently used tool.

More testing is needed over a period of time. Trouble is,the files,or any other of their product offerings may be supplied by someone else in China at any time,and could quickly become a bad product.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, I'll bet they have buyers who work through product lots on alibaba (or some similar way) and the file supplier probably changes by the lot. Who knows how big the lot is, too, maybe it's 1 years worth, and maybe it's a month's worth.

But if they are reasonably accurate (some of the former ones had horrible looking so-called teeth on them) that's a step up and it gives us something to sort through for now, without having to go looking for NOS files or pay a hefty price for swiss files.

[James White]

George,

Could you check your reciept and see if this is the correct item #?

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-flat-file-96626.html

[george wilson]

I tossed the receipt. t looks like the same file,but I can't see the teeth in that picture. If the one in the picture has FINER teeth,I'd like it just fine. Like I said,my file is about half as fine as a bastard file,and I'd like a smoother one to be available. I'll report back in a few weeks when I get down there again,buy more files,and probably break one open to see if they are just case hardened. NOTHING WRONG with case hardening if it is decently deep,and not just .001" deep!! Got to be careful about Asian case hardening. The only way to make a judgement is for me to break open a file and examine the hardness depth visually.

I might add: Just because these files are fully hardened does not mean that they are of real high carbon steel. Steel can fully harden at .50 carbon,but,it doesn't have the wear resistance of .95 carbon. If the files are case hardened,and not carbon steel,it's a different situation. I'd rather have case hardened mild steel than low carbon content tool steel. No way of knowing the carbon content of these files,BUT,at $1.99,several of them would cost the same as a Nicholson. And,the new Nicholson Mexican ones are worthlessly soft to begin with. Thus,my thinking is to buy the HF files and use them up!!

[Mel Fulks]

I think you got the file they made for Hoo Jin Tow .Hope the diplomats can resolve this thing peacefully.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Being Chinese,I don't expect that his file is made of high carbon tool steel.
George,
You might want to recheck the file to see where it's made.
It's probably made in India & not China.
If that's the case (made in India), then check this out.:

(http:/)/forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=14943

Remove the () from the http.

[george wilson]

It definitely says China on the file. I bought another that I need to break in half so I can see if it is hard all the way through or just case hardened.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Dang it! (That the file is made in China not India).
That's one thing I really dislike about Harbor Freight.
They have little to no continuity when it comes to where they get their stuff.

Something that may be a real gem today, can be replaced by a real dud with the next container full of stuff that hits the docks....then not too much later,,,,they switch back to a real gem.

[Jacob Reverb]

It definitely says China on the file. I bought another that I need to break in half so I can see if it is hard all the way through or just case hardened.

If it's not hardened all the way through, won't it just bend rather than break?

[george wilson]

Correct,Jacob. Have you seen those bendable needle files? They are case hardened. I am not saying that a case hardened file is bad. Many were made that way in the old days. If the teeth are hardened,that is the important thing. BUT,the case hardening must be more than just a few thousandths deep,which can be the problem on some Chinese machinist's tools such as precision ground angle plates.



I'll post my findings when I break a file open.

[Pat Barry]

It cost a buck 99. This discussion post alone has cost over $15,000. JK

[george wilson]

Who's JK? The fact that the file cost so little is one thing that is so great about it!!

But,as has been said,different lots can have completely different quality,and unless a person knows how to pick out the files,he could get bitten(but not too badly at those prices!:)) Better than Mexican Nicholsons,though,until they learn how to harden their files.

[Joshua Byrd]

Upon George's semi-recommendation of these files, I went by HF a couple of weeks ago and checked them out. I took the file in question and first tried filing one of its kin; no luck there. Then I went to work on various other files in that section and easily removed material from every one I checked. I didn't want to buy more than one, so I kept the one I tested, but I think I'll be picking some others up soon (after checking them, of course.) Thanks for the tip, Mr. Wilson!

[george wilson]

Joshua,do you mean that some of the HF files you tested were soft? I haven't tested any of them except the one I bought and reported about here.

[Pat Barry]

I think I misunderstodd Joshua. You weren't filing one file with another one in the store were you?

[Joshua Byrd]

Joshua,do you mean that some of the HF files you tested were soft? I haven't tested any of them except the one I bought and reported about here.

The file that you reported on was the one that I specifically went to the store to check on. To test it, I tried filing several other files in an inconsequential area that should have been hardened at the same time that the teeth were (that was the top corner edge for everything I tried.) It wasn't much filing -- certainly no more than was being removed by the loose files banging against each other on the shelf! :D For all files, I took a single swipe. If metal was removed, the file was too soft and I moved to another file type. That happened with every file and rasp I tried, save for the one that George had recommended. For those files, I took another swipe or two to make sure that the file was 'hard'. I tried about four total of those, pulled from the top, middle and bottom of the jumbled bin where they were all piled up. Every one was hard enough that they didn't get any metal removed during my testing. I ended up buying the file that I used to file the others with.

[Joshua Byrd]

I think I misunderstood Joshua. You weren't filing one file with another one in the store were you?

I did. Please see my above 'testing' method. :p If you're concerned that there were a lot of damaged files left in my wake, don't be. I was a lot more careful than the store employees who decided to stock the files by piling them all on top of each other in bins on the shelf. (Made me wince just digging through the pile!)