Installing butt hinges

[Richard Hutchings]

I've installed a pair of hinges on a 17" X 17" cabinet I recentley built and the alignment was off enough that I decide to fill the screw holes and try again. The problem I find is I can't get at the screw holes to mark them because they're hidden with the door closed and measuring aint gonna cut it. I thought about epoxying the hinge in place while holding the door in proper alignment and drilling the screw holes the next day. How do you guys address this?

[Glen Blanchard]

Turners tape? That stuff is STRONG!!

[Jamie Buxton]

That's one of the helpful things about mortising butt hinges. The mortise locates the hinge while you put screws into it. But I take it that you've already trimmed the door to size?

[Richard Hutchings]

Is that double sided? I have some carpet tape that might work but I think it might move when I open the door to drill the holes.

[Glen Blanchard]

It is indeed double sided. It's strong, but you still need to support the door while opening it. I'd suggest a punch to mark the hole locations, then remove all the hardware, then drill. I think attempting to drill the holes with the tape, hinges and door in place would be much more prone to inaccuracies.

[Sam Murdoch]

Another option - make up a story pole, i.e. a 3/4" x 1/8" to 1/4" thick stick that is precisely the height of the door. Knife blade or with a very sharp pencil transfer the hinge location - top & bottom - from the door to your story stick. Transfer these marks to the case side.

CAUTION - the story stick is the exactly long as the door is tall. When you set it into the opening you need to add a spacer under the story stick at the bottom that will give you the reveal that you want at the bottom of the door. Also, you will need to calculate the back edge of the hinge from the edge of the case. Assuming that you want the door to flush with the face of the cabinet you need only set a tri-square or other depth gauge to that dimension - from the face of the door = from the face of the cabinet.

I hold the stick perpendicular to the cabinet side and just make a few distinct points to transfer my lines. I then extend the lines with a square. Now you can tape or clamp the hinge to the side of the cabinet exactly to bore the holes. If you don't currently own a vix bit you should buy one today. It is an essential tool for locating precisely centered holes when installing hardware. Here is just one link - http://www.woodcraft.com/family/2002022/2002022.aspx

[Carl Beckett]

You know - if you took a scrap the same thickness and height of the door (but only an inch or two wide), you could use the double sided tape and it wouldnt risk the weight of the door pulling it off when you open it to expose the hinge holes.

And 'maybe' - if you drilled the holes into the scrap first, then you could remount and drill all the way through the scrap piece and get the holes into the cabinet, and also use this scrap to guide transferring the holes to actual door piece.

At the same time, I have used 5 minute epoxy many times. You want a little shim between the two sides of the hinge, so that when the door is where you want it the hinge presses out against the surface to be mounted on. But it works fine and is pretty fool proof (then you just open carefully, drill, and add the screws)

I do use a spring loader centerpunch to set the drill point in the center - hit it however many times to get the indention you want.

It seems no matter how accurate I mortise, there is always some misalignment......

[Richard Hutchings]

Another option - make up a story pole, i.e. a 3/4" x 1/8" to 1/4" thick stick that is precisely the height of the door. Knife blade or with a very sharp pencil transfer the hinge location - top & bottom - from the door to your story stick. Transfer these marks to the case side.

CAUTION - the story stick is the exactly long as the door is tall. When you set it into the opening you need to add a spacer under the story stick at the bottom that will give you the reveal that you want at the bottom of the door. Also, you will need to calculate the back edge of the hinge from the edge of the case. Assuming that you want the door to flush with the face of the cabinet you need only set a tri-square or other depth gauge to that dimension - from the face of the door = from the face of the cabinet.

I hold the stick perpendicular to the cabinet side and just make a few distinct points to transfer my lines. I then extend the lines with a square. Now you can tape or clamp the hinge to the side of the cabinet exactly to bore the holes. If you don't currently own a vix bit you should buy one today. It is an essential tool for locating precisely centered holes when installing hardware. Here is just one link - http://www.woodcraft.com/family/2002022/2002022.aspx

Sam, I've got the mortises cut and the hinges still installed on the door. I filled the holes in the case so that's what I'll be working with. I did run out on my lunch break and buy some hinge bits from HF though. There used to be a WC nearby but they moved too far away for me to go on my breaks. Those were the good ol days.



You know - if you took a scrap the same thickness and height of the door (but only an inch or two wide), you could use the double sided tape and it wouldnt risk the weight of the door pulling it off when you open it to expose the hinge holes.

And 'maybe' - if you drilled the holes into the scrap first, then you could remount and drill all the way through the scrap piece and get the holes into the cabinet, and also use this scrap to guide transferring the holes to actual door piece.

At the same time, I have used 5 minute epoxy many times. You want a little shim between the two sides of the hinge, so that when the door is where you want it the hinge presses out against the surface to be mounted on. But it works fine and is pretty fool proof (then you just open carefully, drill, and add the screws)

I do use a spring loader centerpunch to set the drill point in the center - hit it however many times to get the indention you want.

It seems no matter how accurate I mortise, there is always some misalignment......

Carl, I like the 5 minute epoxy method and I'm glad to hear you had some success with it. Misalignment is my middle name.:eek:

[frank shic]

give me a euro hinge any day of the week over butt hinges... they're so much more forgiving but obviously won't work for something like a shutter :(

[Richard Hutchings]

This is a small display cabinet not a shutter but next time I may try to design in a euro hinge. It would have to be very small.

[frank shic]

oh gotcha, in that case the butt hinge will look way better. i just hate the mortising...

[Peter Quinn]

I'm baffled as to how or why you would need to tape or glue butt hinges in place at all. I make an MDF router template for each opening height. I use a TS with a cross cut sled and fit the template to the hinges exactly, the height of the blade is the width of the hinge mortise, the template is the height of the door, a shim that represents the gap is used to raise up the template when mortising the case, the template is flush with the door bottom when mortising the door. This approach guarantees they your hinge side is plumb with the front of the case and that the hinges are aligned perfectly. Takes maybe 10 minutes to make such a template from 1/2" MDF or BB scraps. Any approach that involves spacing the hinges using measurements, story poles, or voodoo is doomed to fail. Well, the voodoo may actually work, but the measurements never do IME. Also, I don't buy hinges that wont separate. You may have to pull the door and fit it if the opening or door are out of square I'd start at square one, put in some Dutchmen in the door and or case, make a hinge template that closely matches your current spacing, and free your self from the tyranny and randomness of measurements.

[Richard Hutchings]

I'm not sure why your baffled that everyone doesn't know this but I'm glad you explained it. Took me a few reads to figure out what your talking about but once I understood it, ding ding ding. Yeah I'll be trying this on my next butt hinge installation. This one is almost done. The glue is set and I'll drill it out in the morning. Thanks for the tip.

[Sam Murdoch]

Well Peter your technique may guarantee perfection within the parameters of perfectly machined 2 part butt hinges but there are other factors that don't accommodate such ease of templating. In many instances not all butt hinges are interchangeable. There is nothing wrong with what you suggest but don't be so quick to judge other who use other methods - they are not all certainly "doomed to fail" or as unreliable or slow to incorporate as you suggest. This is a forum of ideas and techniques and the sharing of those, not a forum for condemning other solutions different than your own.

[glenn bradley]

I'm assuming from the description of the problem that the door is inset. With the size of the cabinet and the look you are probably after, the euro kitchen hardware and tablesaw or router jigs aren't much help. As stated, the mortise generally positions the hinge for marking the holes but, it sounds like that is not how this is going. Garrett Hack gives a great demonstration of how to fit butt hinges on a small inset door in video 7, here (http://www.finewoodworking.com/subscription/build-a-tool-cabinet-video-series/index.asp). I have followed this method with much success. I have also used turner's tape (very thin, not like spongy carpet tape that allows movement) to position hinges when in an inside or blind situation.

[Richard Hutchings]

236765 It's full overlay.

[Carl Beckett]

I'm baffled as to how or why you would need to tape or glue butt hinges in place at all. I make an MDF router template for each opening height. I use a TS with a cross cut sled and fit the template to the hinges exactly, the height of the blade is the width of the hinge mortise, the template is the height of the door, a shim that represents the gap is used to raise up the template when mortising the case, the template is flush with the door bottom when mortising the door. This approach guarantees they your hinge side is plumb with the front of the case and that the hinges are aligned perfectly. Takes maybe 10 minutes to make such a template from 1/2" MDF or BB scraps. Any approach that involves spacing the hinges using measurements, story poles, or voodoo is doomed to fail. Well, the voodoo may actually work, but the measurements never do IME. Also, I don't buy hinges that wont separate. You may have to pull the door and fit it if the opening or door are out of square I'd start at square one, put in some Dutchmen in the door and or case, make a hinge template that closely matches your current spacing, and free your self from the tyranny and randomness of measurements.

I will have to read this a couple more times. Indeed, I have made templates for fitting hinges. A couple questions Im not sure this addresses:

Many (most) of the time my hinge does not pass through the full thickness of the door, or cabinet wall. This means a mortise that insets the hinge on three sides. I dont see how you can do this on a table saw? (sometimes I use a router, but more often these days I mark and cut by hand).

Also many times My door (or top if its a box) is not necessarily perfectly flat and square. A lot of the wood I use is from a tree destined for firewood. So its not a highly engineered precision product. So if Im cutting a mortise where the depth is set by referencing against the face - it wont cut the proper depth on one end or the other. Or other times I dont necessarily WANT the hinge 'perfectly plumb' with the case, because the case isnt perfectly square.

Yes I make templates. No they do not always work. Yes wood (at least wood I use) is not always perfect - and even my own assembly of a door or box lid can be out of square, racked, or otherwise imperfect.

Maybe this is why I find myself migrating to hand tools more and more (I recon for the guys with superior skill in hand cutting, are baffled why anyone would ever make a template). Its all relative I guess.

Yes there are a LOT of things that baffle me. I like to try out some different things and learn new ways all the time - even if I may have a preferred method.

[Richard Hutchings]

I agree with everything you said. BTW the epoxied hinges worked great on my not so perfect cabinet. The door closes just the way I need it to. My next cabinet I plan to make perfectly square and exact.:rolleyes:

[Don Dorn]

Put the hinges on the door first in a normal fashion. Then, turn the door upside down so that the non-hinge edge of the door rests on your bench (it's like a third hand). Mark the spots on the cabinet and mortise those. When you turn it back over for installation of the door, it's all relative providing your hinges on the door are exact distances from each end of the cabinet door. Clear as mud?