PDA

View Full Version : Wipe on poly over BLO.



Tom Pritchard
04-07-2005, 11:37 AM
Alright, we have a new finishing forum! Thank you Keith, I think it's going to get a lot of use! :)

My question is this; can I use wipe on poly finish over the top of BLO? I am finishing some figured maple legs for a hall table, and I like the look of the BLO on maple. Once the BLO is dry and I can no longer smell it, will the wipe on poly work? Thanks for any help you can lend.

John Miliunas
04-07-2005, 1:05 PM
Hi Tom! Sure it will work! I prefer to do the "wipe-on" poly for a bit more control and less chance of runs. Actually, one of my favorite "witches' brew" is 1/3 BLO, 1/3 naphtha and 1/3 poly. Wipe on evenly, let it sit for a few minutes, wipe off excess. Usually don't even have to sand in between coats!:) :cool:

Tom Pritchard
04-07-2005, 1:16 PM
Hi Tom! Sure it will work! I prefer to do the "wipe-on" poly for a bit more control and less chance of runs. Actually, one of my favorite "witches' brew" is 1/3 BLO, 1/3 naphtha and 1/3 poly. Wipe on evenly, let it sit for a few minutes, wipe off excess. Usually don't even have to sand in between coats!:) :cool:

Hi John, thanks for the reply. Where do you buy that naphtha stuff? Do you know what it is and what itdoes? Just curious, thanks!

BTW, I use the wipe on poly too. Much easier to control.

Ken Fitzgerald
04-07-2005, 1:27 PM
Tom Naptha is a solvent and IIRC I've seen it at the BORG and paint stores. My neighbor, a professional painter, has used a lot of it in the past.

John Miliunas
04-07-2005, 1:29 PM
Tom, the naphtha helps to thin the poly some and I find that the mixture "flows" better when using wipe-on when it's cut with naphtha. It's really more like a "thinner", if you will, but one which mixes real nicely with just about any oil-based substance. You can pick it up at any of the Borgs and probably your local hardware store, as well.:) :cool:

Jeff Sudmeier
04-07-2005, 2:06 PM
I can attest to the witches brew. I really like it! Basically it is soo simple you can't screw it up, what I need! I didn't have naptha on hand during my last project, so I used Mineral Spirits instead. It still worked wonderfuly!

scott spencer
04-07-2005, 4:53 PM
Hi Tom - Cool! ....a new forum! I've tried pretty much the same recipe that Jeff suggested with the mineral spirits/BLO/poly instead of naptha/BLO/poly. You can also use MS/tung oil/& poly....

See ya!

Chris Daigh
04-07-2005, 5:01 PM
So would this finish be good for a dining room table top.

Bill Wiggins
04-07-2005, 5:35 PM
I use 1/3 each of BLO, Turpentine, and Poly. Works well for wipe or rub on applications.

----------------------
Bill Smith

John Miliunas
04-07-2005, 6:16 PM
So would this finish be good for a dining room table top.

Chris, yes it would. Be aware, though, that the coats are very thin when done properly. You will need to build a significant number of coats for good protection for a surface getting regular use. The major drawback with any poly finish, though, is that it's not easily repaired, such as shelac or lacquer.:cool:

JayStPeter
04-07-2005, 6:27 PM
I'm very far from a finishing expert. But here's my understanding of the so called witches brew. On the first coat, the oil in the first coat pops the grain, but putting just BLO or tung would do the same. From then on, the oil in the mix reduces gloss without blurring the grain like the additives in satin poly supposedly do.
But, for a dining room table, I'd tend to go with an oil base like BLO, then coats of poly. My reasoning is that I would be using the poly for its strength and water resistance. Adding oil seems like it would decrease that. I think I read that somewhere and it makes sense to me.
Anyone agree or disagree and/or have a good reference? I thought I read it on Dresdners site, but didn't see it there.

Jay St. Peter
Disclaimer: One of my peeves about finishing discussions on online forums is the widespread misinformation spewing. But, with my level of expertise, I could be doing the same.

Alan Turner
04-07-2005, 8:33 PM
I used to make an oil varnish mixture, but it was fresh varnish (a MUST), thinner or naptha, and BLO. I used about 1/6 BLO. Then, I started using just Original Waterlox, which is either 27% or 42% solids, per Jeff Jewitt. It dries faster, and builds quicker, without appearing to be a film finish.

So, for speed, I use a first coat of BLO and let it dry for a bout 2-3 days. It dries quite slowly. Then a couple of coats of very blonde dewaxed shellac, which dries quite quickly. Then a couple of coats of thin coats of Waterlox, but on the top only. This has been plenty of protection, and is repairable. I don't use Poly at all, but I can't say why I don't like it. Perhaps it is just too new, and runs agains my knuckle dragging grain.

Tom Pritchard
04-07-2005, 9:26 PM
I used to make an oil varnish mixture, but it was fresh varnish (a MUST), thinner or naptha, and BLO. I used about 1/6 BLO. Then, I started using just Original Waterlox, which is either 27% or 42% solids, per Jeff Jewitt. It dries faster, and builds quicker, without appearing to be a film finish.

So, for speed, I use a first coat of BLO and let it dry for a bout 2-3 days. It dries quite slowly. Then a couple of coats of very blonde dewaxed shellac, which dries quite quickly. Then a couple of coats of thin coats of Waterlox, but on the top only. This has been plenty of protection, and is repairable. I don't use Poly at all, but I can't say why I don't like it. Perhaps it is just too new, and runs agains my knuckle dragging grain.

Alan, how does the shellac hold up to wear, esp. water (from a vase)? I like shellac, but I usually use it on things that don't get wet, like frames, clocks, etc. The table I'm making will be used all summer for fresh flowers, and in the winter there's usually a plant on it.

Alan Turner
04-08-2005, 4:34 AM
Tom,
I have never had a problem with the Waterlox over shellac. The items that sit on top of the table are on the oil varnish mix, not on the shellac. The shellac just fills the pores and dries very quickly so that you don't have to do so many coats of the varnish mixture. Three coats of shellac in one day is not hard to do, but be sure to let the shellac get hard for a day before the varnish as it dries via evaporation and once covered will not harden furhter.
I have never knowingly built a plant stand, and if you think you will have water sitting on the table often, I would think in terms of a conversion varnish, or a brushed varnish, probably three coats, with the first ragged on and sanded in and wited off. After that, if you have a dust free enviorn., then you won't have to sand again. BTW, I hate to brush varnish; a PITA.

I use only high gloss varnish, ever, as the dulling agents are an added bit of grit to break up the light reflection, and are not clear. I then rub out after thoroughly dry to achieve the desired sheen.

Jerry Olexa
04-08-2005, 4:31 PM
Tom make sure your BLO is completely dry before applying a topcoat. Sometimes, it can take up to a week to thoroughly dry! HTH IMHO

Nathan Hoffman
05-20-2005, 7:44 AM
The bath vanity I've been working on for a year and a half is ready for finishing, and I like the sounds of this brew. I'm wondering about its water resistance. The vanity has a solid surface top, so water contact with the wood is not going to be an everyday thing. Thanks!

Doug Shepard
05-20-2005, 8:03 AM
....
So, for speed, I use a first coat of BLO and let it dry for a bout 2-3 days. It dries quite slowly. Then a couple of coats of very blonde dewaxed shellac, which dries quite quickly. Then a couple of coats of thin coats of Waterlox, but on the top only. This has been plenty of protection, and is repairable. I don't use Poly at all, but I can't say why I don't like it. Perhaps it is just too new, and runs agains my knuckle dragging grain.

I've done pretty much the same thing on several projects except instead of the Waterlox, I've used wipe-on poly with good results. I usually end up with 5-6 coats of the poly (gloss) since it goes on so thin, then I buff it back to a more satin sheen. Also no problem with water contacting the shellac as the poly provides a good barrier.

I'm not adverse to trying the witches brew in the future. Just haven't had to finish anything since I heard it mentioned here in other posts. Am I right in thinking the only real difference in whether you use Naptha vs Mineral Spirits in the brew is that the Naptha will evaporate quicker and speed drying??

John Miliunas
05-20-2005, 9:18 AM
I'm not adverse to trying the witches brew in the future. Just haven't had to finish anything since I heard it mentioned here in other posts. Am I right in thinking the only real difference in whether you use Naphtha vs Mineral Spirits in the brew is that the Naphtha will evaporate quicker and speed drying??

Doug, that pretty well covers it. The caveat with the Naphtha is if you're doing a very LARGE area, where you may want to keep a bit more of a "wet edge" as you apply, to prevent overlap build-up. Then I'll mix up the brew with MS. Otherwise, my personal preference is the naphtha, mainly for the ability to do multiple coats in pretty rapid succession.:)

Something not touched on here, which needs to be pointed out, is the skinning of any of the brews. BLO and poly are hardening type finishes. Throw in some naphtha or MS and the process of that happening accelerates. Sadly, it does so in the jar you mixed it in, as well!:( Oxidation is the obvious culprit here. I've used Mason jars for mixing storing and, if there's too much air space, it will skip over quite rapidly. Being cheap and not wanting to spend the $$ for the commercially available argon/CO2/something else gas, I have opted to pick up some "decorative glass nuggets" or marbles, when I can find them. Use some of the brew, but before capping it, fill the void with the marbles to take up the volume. Done with the whole thing? Pour the glass marbles into a shallow tray w/MS or turp, give them a quick swish and throw them on a piece of wax paper to dry. All ready for the next batch!:) I also note that LV has collapsible containers, which do a similar job, which I think I'm going to pick up a 1/2 dozen and see how they work. It looks like they may only collapse to hold 16oz., which still means that when I reach that point, the marbles may come back into use. Guess I'll see...:) :cool: