Opinions on a grinder for re-establishing bevels

[bob blakeborough]

Up until this point I have been doing all of my primary bevel establishing by hand, which while is fine, there are times where I would like to use a grinder to speed up the process (example, a nicked blade or the like). A friend of mine works for a King Tool distributor and I can get employee discounts on their tools, so I was looking at one of the following two grinders and was wondering if anybody has used these or has insights into these types of grinders. Any input would be appreciated!

http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=98&ID=24]http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=98&ID=24
http://www.kingcanada.com/Files/KC10SG_HR_992.jpg

or
http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=98&ID=29]http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=98&ID=29
http://www.kingcanada.com/Files/KC1090_HR_983.jpg

[David Weaver]

The second one is a good type, though you want a 6" grinder or an 8" half speed grinder.

It also needs a two-piece rest. If it doesn't make sense why the rest needs to be two pieces, you can get one that has one pieces and then it will make sense pretty fast when you go to use it.

The first is similar to an old delta style wet wheel grinder that nobody found much favor in.

1x42 belt grinders are also good, but make sure whatever you get, you can get your rest setup to work at woodworking angles (e.g., some of the really cheap belt sanders will not do a bevel any less steep than 45 degrees).

[bob blakeborough]

The reason I was looking at the two above is that they both have a 1750rpm speed. The 8 inch is 3450rpm and I was worried that would be a bit fast. Is the 8 inch wheel better than the 10 inch for any specific reason?

[David Weaver]

Not particularly if you're not using the hollow as a reference (i.e., you're using one bevel and no secondary bevel), but the 1750 speed on a 10 inch may still be too fast. On the wet grinder, I don't know what the speed of the large wheel is, but it is probably 150 or so RPM or something, and it doesn't have a tool rest that you can really use on a slow speed grinder (you need something that grips the tool on a slow speed grinder).

Even a very cheap 6 inch grinder that that has decent balance will easily do what you want to do. For a long time, I used a ryobi grinder that I got at HD that was $39. It had plenty of power, but bad balance (it was probably the wheels). If I'd have been smart, I would've just taken it back until I got one that balanced, but I bought a baldor grinder to replace it instead.

[george wilson]

Two piece rests,which my OLD 1960's Craftsmen bench grinders have,can be turned way out in front of the wheel,so far that I can catch the blades of chisels or carving tools on their bolsters. After adjusting things so the chisel or carving tool is presented to the wheel at the correct angle,I can grind,quench,and replace the tool at exactly the same angle as before. Thus,I can grind beautiful,continuous bevels,especially on carving tools such as gouges. I would never want to have a bench grinder with a 1 piece rest.

As for speed,slow grinders are not necessary if you can develop just a little skill. I put water on the blade when I dip it,and grind for about 2 seconds until the water sizzles. Then,I quench immediately. The thinner the edge becomes,the more important this is. I like to use coarse white wheels and keep them sharpened by dressing with a diamond dresser. Diamond dressers leave the sharpest surfaces on grinding wheels. Crushing wheels' surfaces with old fashioned star wheel dressers do not leave the grains on he wheel as crisp,though they are good for flattening wheel surfaces and establishing square corners. Then,zip across with a diamond to make the wheel sharper.

I also like my old,flat front Craftsmen grinders because their flat fronts do not get in the way when grinding things like draw knives. These big,round body imported grinder housings aren't really necessary. If you ever take one open,you might see a housing several inches in diameter,with a teeny motor about 3" in diameter inside!! That's a fact.

I don't know offhand who makes a flat face grinder these days,as I haven't been in the market,having my old ones. Flat face is not the prettiest design,but it is the most functional.

I like the slow wheel running in water,too. When I can get my Jet(which I bought CHEAP brand new) to run,it is very enjoyable. They are chronic to quit running. It is because their printed circuit board has press on connectors TRULY as thin as beer can metal. While assembling them,the workers often crack them,and they fail. Not real hard to fix. I just solder them on solid and they work. Many of these Jets do not run right out of the box,say 3 dealers I spoke to.

If I NEEDED a wet wheel grinder,I'd get the Tormek,but in reality,I grind most everything these days on my Wilton square wheel belt grinder using blue zirconia belts. They run a lot cooler than a wheel,though you still need to look for the water to sizzle. Being a tool pig,I picked up the Jet for less than 1/2 price at a used machinery place,though the unit was new in the box. Since Wilton have nearly priced themselves out of reach,Grizzly makes a decent "knife grinder" that uses a 2" X 72" belt like the Wilton,though I'd make an enclosure to surround the belt to keep dust down. I have a dedicated vacuum for my Wilton,and a large scoop right under the tool rest since I do not want to breathe metal OR abrasive dust. Dedicated vacuum has NO wood dust in it,as I don't want a huge fire!!

[bob blakeborough]

Thanks for all that info guys! I must say I am a bit nervous about frying a tool as my chisels are all Blue Spruce and the thought of wrecking them makes me a bit sick... lol

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Well, practice on something else first, then.

But even if you ruin the temper on a blade, unless you let things go ridiculously overboard, it's not going to ruin a tool - the overheated part of the steel isn't going to go too far, and even if you just put it too work as is, it's still going to be harder than the wood, it just won't hold an edge as long.

Joel Moskowitz's article on grinding in Fine Wood Working a while back was helpful to me. I especially like his bit about slightly crowning the wheels on the grinder; while I know some folks don't agree with that, I've found it very helpful to help keep from burning the corners on bevel edge chisels, which was always the bit that gave me a little bit of trouble sometimes.

I don't know if they're different than the friable wheels that places like Lee Valley and others sell, but the cool running, seeded-gel-abrasive (or whatever) wheels that Tools For Working Wood sells are really nice, as well, and run very cool. That said, I'm currently using whatever grey wheel came on my grinder.

[bob blakeborough]

Since I would probably by buying a new wheel anyways on the 8 inch grinder, would it make sense to buy the 10 inch but replace the wheels with 8 inch? The reason I am asking is that Kings 8 inch is a 3450rpm machine and the 10 inch is a 1725rpm...

[bridger berdel]

No problem putting an 8" wheel on a 10" grinder except loss of clearance around the wheel.

For chisels and plane blades I find I mostly use the belt grinder.

Pick up some seriously dull chisels at a yard sale or junk store to practise on. Don't pay more thana dollar or so each. When they are sharp you'll find them useful ffor stuff you don't want to bugger up your blue spruce chisels on.

[Chris Fournier]

Most folks don't seem to take the time to develop the touch and technique required to use a bench grinder. This does not mean that it is not a great machine for grinding tooling. I use a 7" 3450 RPM bench grinder and burning has not been a problem for me for many years. A light touch, patience and a properly prepared wheel and set up are key. With this skill you can move tooling on and off the grinder very quickly. The bench grinder represents a great value when it comes to tool sharpening.

[Jack Curtis]

Most folks don't seem to take the time to develop the touch and technique required to use a bench grinder. This does not mean that it is not a great machine for grinding tooling. I use a 7" 3450 RPM bench grinder and burning has not been a problem for me for many years. A light touch, patience and a properly prepared wheel and set up are key. With this skill you can move tooling on and off the grinder very quickly. The bench grinder represents a great value when it comes to tool sharpening.

And most folks don't take the time to develop the touch and technique required to use a hand plane or a chisel or a screwdriver or a hammer.... And yet, they're all great tools when used with skill.

[george wilson]

Talk about lack of basic skills: On another forum,a young woman asked a man the time. He showed her his wristwatch. SHE COULD NOT READ AN ANALOG WATCH!!! I think it's pathetic. My wife says it's the coming wave. That,and no more handwriting being taught!!

[Jack Curtis]

Talk about lack of basic skills: On another forum,a young woman asked a man the time. He showed her his wristwatch. SHE COULD NOT READ AN ANALOG WATCH!!! I think it's pathetic. My wife says it's the coming wave. That,and no more handwriting being taught!!

When those kids have to start paying for all that electricity, they may take the time to learn to do more without.

[george wilson]

Who knows what is coming. Back in the 70's I was at the DMV renewing my license. There was a woman at least in her 30's crying because she couldn't pass the driving exam. She exclaimed to the officer that she had NEVER had to parallel park her car!! So,she couldn't park,and couldn't pass the test!!

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

My favorite is watching folks younger than me (although I'm not old by any stretch) try and write a check. It's hilarious. The cafe down the street doesn't take cards, and when one of them tries to write a check, they have to be walked through the whole process. I used to sell records through the mail, and on more than one occasion, I got checks where they forgot to sign the front, and signed the back instead. I suppose you don't need checks as much these days, but I still find it funny.

We still have the need to write things out by hand at work a lot, and I remember trying to decipher these submission cards. I'm 33 - I think I'm the very last generation in my area that had any handwriting taught to them. Anyone more than a year or two younger than I at the factory can't write legibly to save themselves. Interestingly enough, though, it seems all the immigrant population we have, whether they're from Nepal or Bosnia or Cambodia or Sudan, all have better handwriting regardless of age than a lot of the locals. The Bosnians in particular all seem to have very nice handwriting, though.

We have a rotary phone in the house - I've had it for as long as I can remember, and I've only had to repair it once, after we ran over the cord with something. I can understand younger folks having not seen one before, but we've had kids visit who had no idea what this strange thing is. That threw me!

[Prashun Patel]

I would get the 2nd kind. I prefer the lower speed. I'd replace it with an 8" wheel, and make/buy a top notch platform guide for grinding bevels.

[george wilson]

In about 1965,when I taught math for 1 year,one of the things I taught my students was how to write a check. Most of them had no idea how to do it when we started. They were high school students. I guess it never occurred to other teachers that this was a needed skill. Certainly was. This was LOOOOONG before debit cards,and paying in general with plastic.

[Prashun Patel]

We can lament the fact that youngsters have bad handwriting just like we can lament the fact that some older folks (read my dad) still need people to type emails for them.