Just thinking...LA jack for "everything"

[Frank Carnevale]

So I was doing some reading and see many recommend a low angle jack with a few extra blades with different bevels for smoothing, scrubbing, shooting, etc...any one have feelings on that? Was just wondering if anyone is doing hat and if so, would you prefer that method or more planes? I am in he camp of having more planes but if it really is efficient, i could be convinced to downsize (I don have hat many so it wouldn't be a big downsizing). :)

[David Weaver]

No. I personally can't handle the tote on the LV LA jack for long periods of time, and I don't have the LN LA jack - but I would have little interest in cambering the iron enough to use it as a true jack plane.

I also don't like the way the iron moves laterally so much between no cut and a deep cut with a jack, where the depth of cut can vary a lot depending on what you're doing.

I would much rather have three separate planes and especially have the plane for the most coarse of the work be a lighter plane.

But, you can certainly get a couple of extra blades and see if the process works for you, that's really the only test of whether or not you'll want to go that direction.

[Tony Shea]

I also don't like the way the iron moves laterally so much between no cut and a deep cut with a jack, where the depth of cut can vary a lot depending on what you're doing.

Not quite sure what you're saying here David. Just curious what exactly you're talking about.

To the OP, I do believe this task of using the LA jack for everything a viable option. Sharpening all the different blades for their specific tasks and just changing them out when moving from one step to the other is doable. I do this once in a while as I use this plane myself for shooting quite often so the low bevel angled blade is in the plane 90% of the time. But I also use this plane for a very high angle smoother for the nasty stuff i just can't prevent chipout in. So I do switch blades from time to time.

BUT, I don't believe this to be a great method of work as David pointed out. A low angle plane is def not ideal to be used as a true jack. Such a heavy camber on such a wide BU blade is not something I personally would do. This task is much better suited to a vintage #5 Stanley or a Wooden jack plane. I also think you'd be wanting a long jointer plane eventually as well, although this LA Jack can get you flat surfaces and straight edges. A jointer plane is a bit more ideal though.

[Prashun Patel]

I believe there's a lot of hype around the LV LA Jack. I have one, and it's nice, but I wouldn't say it's best for everything. If you don't use planes that often, then this one is nice and versatile. However, if you've become accustomed to using larger fore planes or smaller smoothers, or even a good high angle jack, then I doubt you'll think this one changes the way you look @ planes.

[Kenneth Speed]

Replacing the tote on a LV low angle jack is relatively inexpensive and makes a good tool a great tool as far as I'm concerned. If I had to have only one bench plane it would be the LV low angle jack. One can do almost everything that one needs a bench plane for with one of these. I do have other bench planes and use them but the LV bevel up jack is very often the plane I reach for first. I keep meaning to make a shooting board for mine but haven't gotten there yet.

[jamie shard]

Nah, you gotta have a few planes ready to go, otherwise you spend all your time adjusting. My LV LA Jack was the first new plane I bought and I don't really regret it ---- it pretty much made my first workbench ---- but now I use it almost 100% with a shooting board. Makes me wonder if the first plane I should have bought was a LN #9! :)

[David Weaver]

Yeah, it's not necessarily a matter of whether or not it can do everything, it's more a matter of whether or not you might enjoy something else more.

My favorite intermediate planes are a spiers copy infill panel plane, a LN #7 , and if i'm pulling several different japanese planes, depending on the length plane I'd want to use.

I never would replace any of them with an LA jack.

My two jacks are a bedrock (if pushing) and a cheap 65mm funjii japanese plane. Same thing.

Smoothers, well, I don't think I'd replace any smoothers with one -if I wanted to use a long plane to smooth, it would just be the panel plane backed off.

the LA jack IS my endgrain plane of choice, bar none, though.

I couldn't imagine dumping all of the other planes I like to use so much (more) unless I had a space constraint of huge proportions. It's not just the tote.

But that brings up another question, are you going to fidget with LA jack mouth and iron, both, each time you change the job you're doing? Compared to reaching over and getting a different plane, that sounds like a pain. In theory, it's not, but when you start getting a little tired and you have a good flow going, you're not looking for things to fidget with when you're dimensioning wood.

I think this whole "i'll use one plane" thing is a catalog and blog kind of proposition that nobody would really like nearly as much if they did it. Of course, if they did it first and never had any other planes to work with, how would they know?

[David Weaver]

Makes me wonder if the first plane I should have bought was a LN #9! :)

There's another whole conversation. In case anyone thinks I'm dogging the LA jack, I had both the LA jack and the LN 9 at one point (i.e., at the same time), and I was enamored with the LN 9, but eventually it went out the door because it barely shoots better than the LA jack ( and that's debatable ) and it's not nearly as nice to use running across 13 inches of endgrain on a panel (arguably, a good bevel down jointer plane with a sharp iron does that just as well as a LA plane, though - as long as both are sharp).

[David Weaver]

Not quite sure what you're saying here David. Just curious what exactly you're talking about.



The iron moves laterally (because of the 12 degree bed) a lot more to make a similar change in the depth of cut (for example, how far forward does the iron move to get to a 6 thousandth of an inch depth of cut, or several times that in the case of a jack plane with rank camber).

[jamie shard]

That would be interesting to do a side by side.

p.s. In truth, I think the next thing I'll probably do is build a hot dog for the LV LA jack instead.

[Jim R Edwards]

I guess I'm in the camp of using a low angle jack for just about everything. I have several planes because I like them but most never get used! I am currently building a dresser and the planes I have used the most are a LV low angle jack, LN 60 1/2R, and a Clifton #7. The Clifton is my dedicated jointer and it is a toss up between the jack and block plane as to what gets used the most.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I guess I could see a LA jack for everything for a mainly-powertool woodworker who works in agreeable woods. In that case I can see edges being not-quite-glue-ready, but true enough you could get by without a jointer plane, and if the wood is a agreeable and comes out of the powered planers and jointers fairly true, you can get by with a larger plane for smoothing.

I use my Lie Nielsen low angle jack for everything, not because I wouldn't prefer another jack, but because it's what I've got and I don't have the money for another premium jack and haven't come across a decent vintage jack for a good price that didn't need more time than I wanted to invest in it. I also haven't been looking, however. I have two blades I use in it; a pretty cambered blade for scrubbing, and straight one for end grain work. Those two steps are far enough removed in how I work that I don't mind swapping them back and forth. I wouldn't want to be constantly swapping between rough work and smoothing, though. That would interrupt my work flow. The 2" blade on the LN jack is about the max I'd want for the coarse work - I can see the extra 1/4" of the LV jack being a bit much. That said, my approach with that plane for coarse work is that the blade is cambered enough that I don't really end up using the full width of it except in softwoods.

I really like the handles on the LN plane, but it still feels a little weird because the low angle plane precludes the "finger pointing" three-fingered-grip I'm used to on my bench planes.

That said, the only time I really find myself liking the BU blade in a plane this size is for working end grain; a BU might be nice in smaller planes to allow varied angle-of-attack in smoothers, but I never find myself doing work that requires that sort of finish with my jack.

I really wish Lee Valley would come out with a plane specifically designed for shooting edges (you listening Rob Lee?) I like the idea of the LN 51 (although the handles on the thing seem to require a captured-plane design shooting board like the 52 or something with an extra strip tacked to it) I don't know - I have the feeling that this is an area that LV's "vintage-inspired; but better" approach could really shine, and I feel like they might even be able to beat the price point on Lie Nielsen's design.

[Greg Wease]

I go both ways. I have significantly reduced the weight of the tool bag that I carry to school by replacing the scrub, smoother and jointer I used to carry with a LN 62 and two extra irons. Not quite the same but definitely good enough. In my shop I tend to use more traditional bevel-down planes for most tasks--except for shooting and when a 60 degree cutting angle is needed. If I only had one plane it would be the 62 despite the shortcomings that David accurately points out.

[Jack Curtis]

Normally when the LN/LV LA jack is recommended it's for beginners who need to get started but don't know where to put their feet down first. When I started I had a horrible time with the old tool Stanleys, nothing worked, and none of the old tool vendors were helpful with anything but taking my money. I happened on the LN LA jack, bought it, it worked out of the box, and turned out to be the most flexible plane I every bought. As I gained experience, I replaced it function by function, until now I hardly ever use it; but can't seem to sell it, very high sentimental value.

[James Taglienti]

The LA jack can do just about everything but blade and depth switches become a hassle pretty quickly. I have a number of planes and use the LA jack for large endgrain surfaces only. I can see how it could be a good beginners plane. For me its kind of like the Leatherman multitool of planes. Nice if theres nothing else around, but i never would walk past a normal pair of pliers to go get the leatherman.

[Matthew Hills]

I got the LV LA Jack this past year. I also have vintage #3, #5, #7, a POJ #4, a LN #4 and a LN LA smoother.

I like the LV LA Jack with a toothed blade, and I'm planning to build a shooting board for it soon (expecting to swap blades).I still use a cambered #5 and my #7 and #4 a lot.

I don't really like fiddling blade settings, so I don't see myself trying to make the LAJ cover too many common roles.

Matt

[Kenneth Speed]

Prashun opined, " believe there's a lot of hype around the LV LA Jack. I have one, and it's nice, but I wouldn't say it's best for everything. If you don't use planes that often, then this one is nice and versatile. However, if you've become accustomed to using larger fore planes or smaller smoothers, or even a good high angle jack, then I doubt you'll think this one changes the way you look @ planes."

I think you're misconstruing what people who like this tool are saying. Is it THE BEST for everything? No, of course it isn't but it is incredibly versatile and very intuitive to use. I truly cannot imagine myself buying a LV iron miter plane, I'd never get enough use out of it to warrant owning it but I would and plan to make a hot dog for my LV bevel up jack when I finish the nine thousand or so other things I'm doing.

I've never totaled the number of planes I own but the LV jack with the toothing blade was able to achieve something that I wasn't able to do with any other plane
I owned.

The ease of use and versatility of this tool makes it a real winner in my book and I think a good starter plane for someone new to woodworking. They can add other planes as they choose but they can do most of what they need to with it.

Ken

[Derek Cohen]

So I was doing some reading and see many recommend a low angle jack with a few extra blades with different bevels for smoothing, scrubbing, shooting, etc...any one have feelings on that? Was just wondering if anyone is doing hat and if so, would you prefer that method or more planes? I am in he camp of having more planes but if it really is efficient, i could be convinced to downsize (I don have hat many so it wouldn't be a big downsizing). :)

The LV LA Jack is a superb plane ...

It is a better shooting plane than the dedicated LN #9 in my opinion (see here (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ShootingPlanesCompared.html)).

It is my go-to plane to use (with a low cutting angle) when flattening a panel across the grain.

Add a toothed blade, and you can prepare any difficult surface. Are there many other planes that do this as well?

Add a high angle blade, and you can smooth large panels as well as the best panel planes.

No it is not a smoother. It is too long.

And it cannot cut rebates to save its life.

For all this, I prefer to dedicate several planes to specialist tasks, such as a jack, a smoother and a shooter. The LV LA Jack is a true "jack of all trades" ... and master of most ... but the issue with a Swiss Army Knife is that it is not always convenient to use each blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[glenn bradley]

Wow, what passion. You'd think this was a Festool or a Saw Stop thread :D. Fortunately, the modern world has supplied us with many varied methods to accomplish a given task. Could you buy a LV LA Jack and be happy with that alone? Possibly. In my shop which is predominantly 'tailed' . . . even I have a half a dozen planes or so, and would be loath to give any of them up ;).

[Jim Koepke]

In some ways this discussion is like discussions of how many angles can dance on the head of a pin.

Some folks may be able to meet all of their hand plane needs with one or two planes. Some may need to keep their tool count down because of space limitations.

Though much enjoyment comes my way when fettling planes, there really isn't much enjoyment in fiddling with a plane. Currently there are four Stanley/Bailey #5s in my shop. They are all set up a little different. Sometimes their last shaving is kept with the plane in case they aren't used for awhile it is easy to see how they were set up when put away.

My LN #62, LAJ, is a great plane, but it is mostly used for shooting end grain. For me the main difference in end grain shooting between the #62 and a standard bench plane is in the force required to push the plane through a cut. The end results are about the same.

The quest for one plane for all uses reminds me of a comment once heard about a #7 jointer being able to handle every task in the shop. It is possible, but when things get going in the shop it is inconvenient to stop and change blades then readjust for the next step and then change it all back again.

Typically, for me, a rough piece is set up on the bench and hit with a plane in the #5 - #6 range. When the roughage is removed it will be worked with a #7 or #8. Then it is given a few passes from a smoother if needed. Then the next piece in line gets the same treatment. This all goes pretty fast without having to stop to change blades and adjusting the plane. In this scenario, the first cuts are usually in the .010 - .015" range. The jointer then is set to take a cut of about .004 - .007" range. Then if there is a need a smoother set to .001 - .003" is used to make it shine.

jtk

[jamie shard]

In some ways this discussion is like discussions of how many angles can dance on the head of a pin.


Are these angles hollow ground? Is there a back bevel on the angle? Are there micro-bevels? I need more info before I can discuss! :)

[Jonas Baker]

I actually just purchased the LN Low angle Jack. It essentially does everything worse than other planes. That is not to say that it doesn't do everything well. It just does them not as well.

For shooting, it's worse than a #9 or a #51 (obviously since that is the best shooting plane ever), in my opinion. It's just too light to be a great shooting plane.

It doesn't smooth as well as a dedicated smoother because of it's longer length.

As a jack, it doesn't have the weight to plow through material as well as, say, a #5 1/2.

That being said, it performs well at shooting, and it is a lot easier to hold than a bevel down plane in the shooting position.

It can easily be adjusted to take fine whispy shavings with by closing up the mouth and taking a fine cut for smoothing.

And with a toothed blade, it excels at heavy stock removal, replacing the need to put a heavy camber on the blade (which works better than a scrub plane in my opinion).

Mind you better and worse is just my opinion.

Jonas

[Chris Griggs]

Nothing new to add here. What I think has already been said. The LV LA Jack is the most recent tools I purchased. Its a great shooting plane (main reason I bought it), a great end grain plane in general and makes a nice small jointer. I don't like it for smoothing, I woundn't bother to use it for rough work, and it won't replace my longer No. 6 and No. 8.

As a side note, a couple people commented on the LN Jack as well. I've used my LV LAJ side by side with Archie Englands LN LA Jack and they are surprisingly different. The LN is lighter and has a more comfortable tote (actually, subjectively a lot more comfortable to me), and IMHO makes a nicer sorta all around smoothing/trimming plane. The LV is definitely a better shooter (although the LN is a great shooter in its own right) and given its larger size and set back mouth the LV seems better for flattening/straightening. For my uses I'm very glad I got the LV, but that's just some food for thought.

Another interesting thing is that after I used my LV for shooting I had an easier time for using Archie's LN for shooting. This is because the LV sorta guides your hand to gripping the lever cap which is designed to be gripped for shooting. Even though the LN doesn't have this same feature if you grip it the same way as the LV (wrap you fingers around the narrow part of the lever cap it much improves shooting.

Anyway to answer the OPs question. No, I would in no way want to use the LA Jack (LN or LV) for everything.

[Curt Putnam]

How does that saying go ...."Just because you can do a thing does mean that should do that thing." My LV LAJ is remarkably versatile. I especially like it with a toothed blade for heavy cuts / flattening work. The tote is by far the most comfortable of all my planes, but then my hands seem to be on the large side. The LV jointer is a joy to use and makes short work of my edges and faces. The LAJ makes a good smoother for larger pieces but with smoothers I find my loyalties more divided. I have a Bailey #3 with a loose tote that I absolutely love. Just acquired a Tom Bussey (TableSawTom) ground Bailey #4 that with a LV Blade/breaker combination is superb. The LV BUS uses the same blades as the jack & jointer and does a fantabulous job but it is work to push with any but the lightest cuts.

So I fall in the camp of the right tool for each job.

[Chris Fournier]

Ugh, the LA jack is my least used plane and I cannot see why anyone would want to swap our several blades just to have one plane that does it all - unless of course budget and space were both VERY small. Shooting and end grain are two operations where the LA jack gets used in my shop. I prefer my #9 for shooting. With a decent compliment of block planes and bench planes a LA jack is not all that needed - other side of the coin I know but I find this side of the coin much more pleasurable and efficient in use.

[Jim Koepke]

Even though the LN doesn't have this same feature if you grip it the same way as the LV (wrap you fingers around the narrow part of the lever cap it much improves shooting.

If you install a hot dog on the side of either plane, it is a lot easier to grip.

jtk

[Jack Curtis]

Ugh, the LA jack is my least used plane and I cannot see why anyone would want to swap our several blades just to have one plane that does it all - unless of course budget and space were both VERY small. Shooting and end grain are two operations where the LA jack gets used in my shop. I prefer my #9 for shooting. With a decent compliment of block planes and bench planes a LA jack is not all that needed - other side of the coin I know but I find this side of the coin much more pleasurable and efficient in use.

It's a learned skill that few choose to develop.