PDA

View Full Version : Need tutorial on gas powered generators after the disaster here in MD.



Don Morris
07-04-2012, 10:09 AM
Was on a mountain top in NW Virginia in an old school house converted to a guest house when the "Wind storm of the Century" hit. It was owned by a winery who was having a tasting and catered party the next day. Needless to say that didn't happen. We lost power and couldn't flush toilets more than once. Drove back to our home NW of Wash. DC and our neighborhood looked like a war zone. There were several trees down on the property which I could normally handle with my elec. chain saw or my old Bosch recip. saw with 12" pruning blade that does just about as good as the chain saw...but it also is electric. A couple people who had generators at least didn't lose all their food. We didn't lose too much but the running around buying extra coolers, driving 60 miles to find ice, etc. I'm not going through again. No matter what, I'm buying a generator, extra cans for gas, oil, etc. even if I never use them. But I sure would appreciate a tutorial on gas generators. My neighbor got to HD early and got a 5500 total output (with I think around 4 120v outlets) for around $800.00. It took 5 days to get power back. I'm in no hurry. I've also got natural gas to an outdoor grill if that's a possible energy source. I'd be willing to pay up to $2000.00 if you said that is what it would take to get a reliable unit. My wife is a cook and 2 refrigerator/freezers and one dedicated freezer were full and we lost $$$ hundreds worth of food. Insurance won't cover all of that and her time. She's "ticked" enough (was going to use a bad word) to indicate she would pay anything for a generator so that won't happen again. Recommendations please! Motors, brands, outlets 120/220, etc. or are they all alike?

Ed Hazel
07-04-2012, 10:28 AM
Not an expert, but first you need to calculate how much power do you need? Do you need to run everything all the time?

2. Do you need to to come on automatically?
3. If you have Natural Gas I would get a natural gas powered generator, no gas to mess with or obtain which can be an issue!

Ted Calver
07-04-2012, 10:31 AM
We've lost power for over a week on three occasions...one an ice storm and the others hurricanes. Gas supplies dry up after a few days so gas powered generators are questionable unless you have a way to store lots of gas. I ended up buying a tri-fuel unit from Northern tool that runs on either gasoline, propane or natural gas. It's an 8k unit that will run fans, refrigerators and lights. I haven't tried to run the A/C with it, but think it might not be powerful enough for that. Probably OK for the furnace though. The electrician put a simple switch on the panel that lets me selectively flip the breakers for what needs to run. If I had to do it over, the whole house generators would get a good look. They are cheaper now and 5-10k would set you up with a fuss free system. Incidentally, after buying my unit 6 years ago.....we've not had to use it.

Jay Jolliffe
07-04-2012, 10:36 AM
We bought a Honda generator when we were building our house. It's a 6,500 output & it's on wheels....We wanted a good one so we could use it if we lost power. It runs our whole house when power is out.Runs the refrig, well pump, furnace, lights & everything else...Living on an Island it's out more that we'd like. You have to decide what you want to run when power is out. We have a big knife switch that we pull on & that takes us off the main power, then we turn on the generator....You can buy ones that turn on automatically when you loose power but their more costly. Some day maybe.

Eduard Nemirovsky
07-04-2012, 11:35 AM
After last storm I am going to get a whole house standby generator. I did a few estimates, for my heat pump ( required more then AC with the same tonnage), and well pump, water heater, refrigerator, lights, sump and sewer pumps, it is about 17-20 KW. My energy source will be tank with LPG, about 150-250 G. Price from $9 to $13K.
I know for sure, it will be as with my snowblower, as soon I get one - no major storms in last 3 years. But after 3 days winter time and two last week - it is more then enough for me and my family.
Ed.

Keith Outten
07-04-2012, 11:51 AM
I took a different approach and purchased a Miller Bobcat 250 welder / generator. The generator has an 11,000 watt capacity with both 110 and 220 colts. The problem with generators is that you rarely use them. On the other hand a nice welding machine is always a useful tool :)
.

Matt Meiser
07-04-2012, 12:32 PM
I used a portable for about 10 years. We got ours after an ice storm where our power was out for 3 of a predicted 8 days. Then I used it during the blackout of 2003 and numerous, numerous other outages of anywhere between a few hours and a few days. I broke the rules and had a 30A outlet on the side of my house and a double ended extension cord. It worked well enough for the basics when I was home. It wasn't something my wife could deal with, even if I'd put in a proper transfer switch. Portables need careful storage and regular exercise to keep them fit. I always stored mine full of premium gas treated with Stabil. If we didn't use it I'd transfer that to the cars and put fresh in once a year. I always had good luck with that. I also started it at least in the spring and fall and let it run about 30 minutes with something plugged in to each 120V outlet. When I got mine my shopping criteria consisted of being available RIGHT NOW since the house was already in the upper 40's. I ended up with a B&S powered Generac from Home Depot. It was hard on electronics. I blame it for a failed microwave and 2 failed UPS's before I learned. I probably spent $1000 for the generator and electrical components. If you have easy access to the wiring to your panel installing a proper transfer switch is pretty darn easy. Mine is in a finished wall.

This spring we finally broke down and installed a natural gas standby that can power about 3/4 of our house including our heat pump. Now I just need to glance at the indoor display when it exercises itself every Monday and make sure it doesn't report trouble. Once a year I need to change the oil, spark plug, and air filter which looks like about a 20 minute job. If I'm not home, it will just start and transfer, then transfer back, cool, and shut itself down when the power comes back. Its supposed to be electronics-safe. I probably spent about $6500 for the generator, electrical components, and natural gas plumbing and I did all the work except the latter with some help from a friend on the electrical. We did one at my parents' house as well and they spent about the same paying their HVAC guy to do the gas (an easy run since the unit went 10' from their meter) and my friend to do all the work except one partial Saturday of my time where we hauled my tractor over to clear the "site," set the unit, and make all the final electrical connections.

We've had regular outages the whole time we've lived here. Since I spent the $$$$ on the standby, we've had a 9s outage and a 15s outage. We didn't even lose power the day I took the picture of a tornado from my deck. All the run time on the unit is exercise and testing other than about 30s for that 15s outage since it starts at 10s. I don't even think it had transferred when the power came back because I didn't hear the snap of the transfer switch in the basement. My parent's haven't lost power once. Figures.

Tony De Masi
07-04-2012, 1:14 PM
To add what others have said I would also check with your power companies. I got my standby generator done through mine and paid for it over two years with no interest. Was akin to a small car payment for the two year period. They sent out someone who went over my entire house and panel box and we decided what I really wanted the generator to power. Once I signed the contract they did all the work. Set the generator, ran all the electric, and provided new panel box for the generator. The only other out of pocket expense was digging the line from my 500 gallon propane tank to the generator. My propane provider hooked up the line on each end, but there was no cost to me for that. Was it expensive? A relative term really. Have I used it? Yes. Did I need it for this last storm that blew through on Friday? No. We were very lucky.

Don Morris
07-04-2012, 1:34 PM
The more I read, the more I'm inclined to put in something like one of the small fixed Generac units next to my natural gas outlet to my gas grill. I'm not quite ready to spring for a whole house unit yet, but something that will run the refrigerator/freezer units, during a summer outage and maybe handle them plus some sort of small space heater during a winter catastrophe, like the 4' perfect storm we had 2 yrs ago. I'd have to store a portable in a garage, and if it were a winter problem with a lot of snow, pull it out (front facing garage), get it around the back to an area where it would be logical to run it...in other words a big time PITA. Does that sound right? Thanks for the good info people.

Myk Rian
07-04-2012, 3:53 PM
I have a 4400 watt unit that powers our Tri-level just fine.
If it's during a heat wave, we just don't run the AC.
Otherwise, we watch TV, use the I-net, lights, water pump, fridge, furnace.
Haven't overloaded it yet, except for one year I tried to use the table saw.

Tom Hartranft
07-04-2012, 4:53 PM
Recommendations please! Motors, brands, outlets 120/220, etc. or are they all alike?

Ref your question ... If you go with a whole house or partial whole house generator, then the installed generator + transfer switch features will be much the same from one vendor to another.

However, first thing to consider is what is/are your objectives. For me, it was to ensure power to my 120 v basement sump pumps. A power outage during a monster rain storm would lead to a flooded basement for me. Battery and house water system backup sump pumps don't have enough flow capacity for what comes into my sump pit during a storm deluge. So, I decided on a generator to ensure power to my two electrical pumps (one pump is main; other is backup). Next decision was to buy a portable genset or go with an installed generator + transfer switch. For me, I wanted 24/7 'turn on' capability day/night/out-of-town. So, a less costly portable genset wasn't a solution. So, decision was to go for an installed generator + automatic transfer switch hardwired into a subpanel adjacent to my 200 amp home electrical service panel. Next decision was ... 100% whole house or something less. Only needed to cover ~15-20 amps for the sump pumps, but since the only way to get 24/7 'turn on' capability was to go with a generator + transfer switch, I looked at partial versus whole house system. For me a whole house system would require 15+ kW generator. After some discussion with my local electrician I opted for an 8.5 kW Winco home generator that came with a specific automatic transfer switch. This size generator and a new subpanel in my garage that it powers gives me emergency power for most everything in my house including fan to blow heat from my gas fired furnace. Only things it doesn't power are the electric stove/oven, electric dryer, and AC ... for about 60% the cost of a true whole house generator on the order of 15+ kW. Last decision was where to locate the generator and what fuel to use ... I opted for natural gas plumbed from the incoming gas pipe to my house (gas hot water and gas-fired furnace for winter heat). Decided on placing the generator in my wife's nice flower bed because it was the only location real close to the incoming gas pipe/meter to the house. She wasn't a fan of that, but ... neither does she want a flooded basement. After three years, she's 'ok' with its placement.

My electrician handled Winco generators so that's the brand I opted for. He installed it and sub'd out to a local plumber to install a gas line to the generator. My electrician did all of the wiring. The only thing I did to cut cost a little was to put in my own pad for the generator to sit on. Total cost in June 2009 was about $7,000. The unit does a self test start followed by a 15 minute engine run every two weeks. I change the oil, oil filter, 2 spark plugs, and air filter once a year. Haven't had an extended electrical power outage in those three years, but have had a lot of nuisance 5-10 second outages when our local electric company resets its transformers ... about every 2 months or in the middle of a T-storm. My generator transfer switch is programmed to signal the generator engine to start after a 5 second outage is detected and for the transfer switch to go to 'back up generator power' 10 seconds after the engine stabalizes ... so, these nuisance power outages cause my generator B&S engine to come on too ... even though the grid power comes back on about the same time that the generator engine fires up. Since the grid power comes back on in less than 10 seconds from original power outage, the transfer switch does not transfer and the engine is programmed to run for 10 minutes after grid power is sensed before automatically shutting down. According to my electrician, there is nothing I can do to reprogram the transfer switch to delay 'start up' signal to the B&S engine to say ... 15 seconds. These nuisance start ups have been the only irritant to me so far with my generator system; I do sleep well in a storm and am comfortable having the generator system in place when out of town.

Hope I've given you some food for thought. Have added some photos to help you see the size/type of components used in a whole/partial house system. This is my 8.5 kW system.

Tom

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Two pics of the generator set in wife's flower bed. The blocks to the left of the generator in 1st picture block the hot exhaust air from the B&S engine from killing wife's adjacent flowers during bi-weekly test runs. Of course, if the generator ever runs for a day or more, her adjacent flowers are toast ... haven't really said it that way to her.

http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr183/tjh_020/Generator/IMG_1614640x480.jpg

http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr183/tjh_020/Generator/IMG_1613640x480.jpg

Pic of the transfer switch mounted on outside wall to left of power meter ... main circuit panel behind power meter in garage; new generator subpanel behind transfer switch in garage (see last photo below). Note how transfer switch also serves as wife's leaning abutment for her mops ... it's a woman thing. The little wall box between transfer switch and power meter is my phone box junction to the house.

http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr183/tjh_020/Generator/IMG_1612640x480.jpg

Lastly, here is a photo inside the garage showing the main house circuit panel (left) and the new generator subpanel (right)

http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr183/tjh_020/Generator/IMG_1611640x480.jpg

Ole Anderson
07-04-2012, 5:14 PM
I have a 3500 watt, 15 year old genset from Grainger, a "medium duty". Noisy as all get-out and only runs for 3 hours on a fillup. I hate it, but it has been used a number of times. We were out of town during the BIG blackout so it didn't get used then. Our last big one lasted 30 hours. For that one I drove 5 minutes to get my RV out of storage and used its 7 kw genset connected to the RV 75 gallon gas tank. Nice and quiet. But the RV is in FL from Nov to May so a winter ice storm must be handled by the old noisy one. I have a 240 volt plug in the garage that goes to a 20 amp service used in my shop. I back feed my panel from that with a wire that has 2 male plugs. I mark my panel to turn off all other 240 volt uses, the (A/C, lawn pump and the range.) Also unneeded 15 and 20 amp uses are turned off with, and most importantly, the main breaker so you don't feed the whole neighborhood, and electrocute the lineman trying to fix the wires.

I am just starting to look at a natural gas auto backup genset big enough to also run the A/C in the summer. I see HD has a 17 kw Generac for about $3800. I would have no problem with a self install as I wired my house with a 200 amp panel 37 years ago and have done a fair amount of wiring since then. A friend had one put in and the gas company had to install a MUCH larger meter, but was able to use the existing gas main from the street. I suppose an electrical permit would be in order.

By the way, to properly size a genset, you need to know the start requirements of your bigger motors. You may be able to run a larger motor, but your genset may very well not be able to start that motor. This would apply to a larger well pump as well as your A/C compressor.

Don Morris
07-05-2012, 1:25 AM
Thanks people! Wonderful help. We got power after 5 days of living in the basement where it was cool enough to sleep. Never again. A fixed unit somehow, maybe not a whole house, but big enough to power the critical stuff plus at least some fans in the summer and the critical stuff plus a space heater in the winter. Automatic on/off, self test, all that of course. Will buy something to do what we want plus a little more just to be safe. I'm getting too old for this s__. I'm not going to save my money for my kids. One was vacationing in the Orient, the other in Key West. Gonna put my "tool toys" list on hold for a couple years in favor of a fixed LP/NG standby generator. My new car next year may be next next next year. I've got over 100,000 on a RAV4 4cyl. The only feature I miss is the extra power of a 6cyl when passing long trailers on the HWY or when you need to get around someone, or that extra umphs occasionally. Though it seems the longer I wait, the better the gas milage the newer cars coming out are advertising. Maybe it's good I wait. Again, Thanks to all for taking the time to respond.

Don M

Matt Meiser
07-05-2012, 7:07 AM
I am just starting to look at a natural gas auto backup genset big enough to also run the A/C in the summer. I see HD has a 17 kw Generac for about $3800. I would have no problem with a self install as I wired my house with a 200 amp panel 37 years ago and have done a fair amount of wiring since then. A friend had one put in and the gas company had to install a MUCH larger meter, but was able to use the existing gas main from the street. I suppose an electrical permit would be in order.

It would be worth joining Costco just to buy a generator. The one we got is a 12KW and comes with a 100A transfer switch for about $2500. We installed a 100A breaker in the main panel, fed the transfer switch from that, then fed a new panel from the transfer switch. The circuits to be on emergency power got moved to the new panel.

We have the biggest meter that Michigan Gas Utilities installs at residences. But their calculation takes into account the furnace in their shop. My shop isn't powered when the gen is running. Same deal at my parents house and their furnace is 2x the BTU's of ours. Our meter was sized when they ran gas down our road 2 years ago. Theirs was existing and like your friend, MGU just upgraded the meter. As I understand, the main is something like 60PSI so the small line they run from the street has a lot more capacity than the same size line at 7" W.C. that runs in your house.

Chuck Wintle
07-05-2012, 7:40 AM
Was on a mountain top in NW Virginia in an old school house converted to a guest house when the "Wind storm of the Century" hit. It was owned by a winery who was having a tasting and catered party the next day. Needless to say that didn't happen. We lost power and couldn't flush toilets more than once. Drove back to our home NW of Wash. DC and our neighborhood looked like a war zone. There were several trees down on the property which I could normally handle with my elec. chain saw or my old Bosch recip. saw with 12" pruning blade that does just about as good as the chain saw...but it also is electric. A couple people who had generators at least didn't lose all their food. We didn't lose too much but the running around buying extra coolers, driving 60 miles to find ice, etc. I'm not going through again. No matter what, I'm buying a generator, extra cans for gas, oil, etc. even if I never use them. But I sure would appreciate a tutorial on gas generators. My neighbor got to HD early and got a 5500 total output (with I think around 4 120v outlets) for around $800.00. It took 5 days to get power back. I'm in no hurry. I've also got natural gas to an outdoor grill if that's a possible energy source. I'd be willing to pay up to $2000.00 if you said that is what it would take to get a reliable unit. My wife is a cook and 2 refrigerator/freezers and one dedicated freezer were full and we lost $$$ hundreds worth of food. Insurance won't cover all of that and her time. She's "ticked" enough (was going to use a bad word) to indicate she would pay anything for a generator so that won't happen again. Recommendations please! Motors, brands, outlets 120/220, etc. or are they all alike?

if you decide to go with a "small" unit, under 10000 watts, then try to find one that runs very quietly. also to be safe you might want to think about a safe way to transfer the power from the generator, probably an electrician can advise on this. You need this to cut the connection to the main lines so you aren't trying to power the entire neighborhood. These little units are very temporary and the motor runs hard to keep it going so have extra oil, gas and spare plugs on hand.

Jim Matthews
07-05-2012, 8:29 AM
I bought the smallest of the GE home power generators, the model 040315GEA (http://www.homestandbygeneratorsystems.com/products/vertical/7kW%20Automatic%20HGS%20GE/) after Hurricane Irene. I considered the tri-fuel unit mentioned but wanted something automated, in the event that I was unable.
What good is saving a few dollars if you can't answer the call of duty when your family is in the dark? Refueling a gasoline powered generator requires a cool-down period of several hours - more if it's hot outside.

We were without power for 6 and a half days, with no lines down or tree damage in our town. All the line crews were in Vermont while we were in the dark. This was a disruption - not the sort of catastrophe you face.

After three days with no water from our well, I decided that a generator made sense after all.

It runs on natural gas from our local provider. Their gas pressurization units have self-contained power (run on - you guessed it - Natural gas) which are theoretically self-sufficient.

It was installed by a local electrician - as these connections are the source of catastrophic failure. Get these wrong and you've got a house fire that's difficult to extinguish.
The hang up was the gas connection, as the local providers were overwhelmed by orders and lacked a directive for sizing the flow meters - as alluded to above.
If you do hire someone to do the installation - pay in three installments. 1/3 to order the generator up front 1/3 when it is installed 1/3 when it passes the load test.

The delay between the 2nd and 3rd steps for me was 18 days - but I don't live in a region known for competence or customer service. YMMV
The Borg stores hire out - and if there are lots of orders, you could get someone that's learning the ropes on your dime.

This is the sort of thing that is worthy of paying the price for experience. If someone can "install it today" they're probably a Newbie.
I'll let someone learn how to seal coat my driveway, clean my gutters or cut my grass - I want a professional handling electricity.

While the do-it-yourself approach can work if you're competent, having someone an electrician install the device is simpler and provides a degree of liability coverage.
(My home owner's policy did not cover any self-installs. If a fire, structural damage or personal injury resulted - they would not cover losses.)

My total cost was $7k.

Eric DeSilva
07-05-2012, 10:54 AM
We had a 20kW generator installed by through Dominion VA (at least you get free financing for two years). What we found was that with the electrical work, gas work, and inspections, the generator cost was not the most significant cost. Ours is a Generac unit, set up with a transfer switch that handled most of the house (we have gas, so ovens/cooktop/dryer/heater are not heavy electric loads)--heat pump, sump pump, freezer, fridge, washer/dryer, TV, computer/internet hardware, and a good collection of outlets, lights. Think the total bill was about $11K, but that involves moving all the circuits from the two electrical boxes we have into the box for the transfer switch and the gas hookup. Probably could have spent a little less, but $11K for 20kW sounds better to me than $10K for 10kW. You get the picture. I called around, and the quote from Dom VA wasn't much different from any other contractor. A lot may depend on your local permitting and such.

Dick Adair
07-05-2012, 11:06 AM
Now may not be the best time to shop for a generator at bargain prices. After the two storms last fall I decided I was going to get a generator and a backup sump pump. I have two pumps in the basement on a perimeter system and for about six hours they could not keep up. My plumber loaned me a spare for for a few hours and it got me through the peak. I waited a few weeks, until the stores were restocked and then went looking. I bought a portable 6500 Generac for , had a disconnect installed, and bought a backup pump. If I never use it for an emergency it is worth the peace of mind just having it.

My son lost power to his house again last week after that storm, and with in one hour I had his fridge, freezer and small air conditioner running. It was only needed about five hours, but it kept the house comfortable for them. I like the ability to move it when needed.

Ole Anderson
07-05-2012, 3:08 PM
One thought that I am having is that if I am going to spring for an auto start backup genset, I am not going to save a few bucks and not size it for running my A/C at the same time. At least here in MI, it seems that there might be some truth to this hot weather being more than just a heat wave. Looking at the glacier melt rate on our trip last year to AK is convincing me. And the numbers some of the meteorologists are throwing out there for temp increases over the 20 year life span of the genset are downright scary. Hopefully they are not right. We don't use A/C a lot, but when we do, we are sure glad we have it. And this last week we have been in northern MI where it has been in the low 90's (and another 5 degrees warmer than that in southern MI where we live), and we are sure glad when we return to the RV and its air conditioning.

Matt Meiser
07-05-2012, 3:40 PM
One nice thing about the current Generac transfer switches and electronics--they've got ability to shed load on an AC/heat pump unit. If the generator is running at too high load it won't let the AC start. Likewise, it will shed the AC if enough other stuff starts. Out of the box it will shed 2 AC units with just a length if wire to your thermostat or furnace. You can add 4 more load shed modules (really just relays) that can shed 4 more big loads--say an electric water heater, spa, etc.

Jim Laumann
07-05-2012, 4:08 PM
I've got a 6000W unit powered by a 11hp Honda (gas). Must hook it up myself, and manage the power load myself - but then again, I've got considerably less invested than some of the units being described ($1400). Got it many years ago when we were out of power for 8 days due to a early winter ice storm. We've been out for 2-3 days a couple times since then.

It will run my well, freezers, refrigs, the circulation pump on my gas boiler, the sump pump, micro wave and some lights. Not perfect, but it makes a outage liveable.

Jim

Brian Elfert
07-05-2012, 4:53 PM
My generator is pretty darn quiet, but in a summer power outage with everyone opening windows it could get annoying hearing it for hours or days. I've always figured I would offer power to the neighbors to at least keep their freezers and refrigerators going. I figure that should stop any complaining about the noise.

Kevin W Johnson
07-05-2012, 11:24 PM
My generator is pretty darn quiet, but in a summer power outage with everyone opening windows it could get annoying hearing it for hours or days. I've always figured I would offer power to the neighbors to at least keep their freezers and refrigerators going. I figure that should stop any complaining about the noise.

Well, during this last outage, I too worried about running a generator too late at night. I shut mine off by 11:00pm, as the the small gen I started te outage with was noisy and wouldn't run the A/C anyway, and the fridge would be ok till the morning before needing to run again. We had neighbors that ran them all night. I won't worry about it next time, I guess it's just part of the "pain" of an outage and people just have to accept it.

Mike Cutler
07-06-2012, 7:38 AM
Don

It comes down to what you want to spend, and how much you want to try and power at once.

For portables if money is no object. Honda 6500, or two 3500's in parallel. Clean power. The Honda's have an inverter type generator that produces a nice clean 60 hz. sine wave. If you have a lot of high end microprocessor controlled appliances that you want to protect the Honda is the one. You're looking at close to $5K before you fire it up for the first time. They're also among the quietest generators.
Power requirements for me are about 6000 watts for "normal" load cycle during the day.
These are the current requirements for my house during the last power outage. I use a voltmeter and clamp on ammeter to monitor voltage and current.
Well pump was 6.7 amps
Refrigerator was a nominal 2.7 amps and 5 amps during the defrost cycle.
Freezer was less that 2 amps.
Total lighting was about 4 amps, but we weren't trying to light up the neighborhood.
Washing Machine was 13 amps, but it makes it own hot water. As soon as I saw 13 amps the clothes were washed in cold for that week.
Water heater was 17 amps. Yep we ran it, but it had to be cycled on by itself. I only had a Coleman Powermate 5K generator so it couldn't take any extra start up current if the water heater needed to be ran. I no longer have an electric water heater.

The small generators run through a lot of gas, probably a half gallon an hour, so it can get kind of expensive. You need to have the ability to store more gasoline than you might be comfortable with.,
The propane generators can be very expensive to run, at least in Connecticut. In fact the Govenor had to sign an emergency order allowing any propane company to fill any tank, regardless of which company actually owned the tank. There was some serious price gouging going on.
The folks that had natural gas piped generators in my area, including Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, and the local restaurants as well as the individual residences, were out of luck. The power outage took out power to the natural gas facility in town, so they had no fuel. I still don't understand that little nuance.:confused:

Whatever path you take, portable or standby, have the connective interface ( Generator Transfer Panel, or Switch ) done professionally. Don't back feed through some hodgepodge, jury rigged, setup. It's dangerous, no matter what anyone tells you. I'm also being a hypocrite here, because I back fed through the garage sub panel to gain the protection of the sub panel breaker, which I switched in the main panel to a smaller breaker for additional protection.
I kind of do this for a living though, and I still know it's wrong. I felt like I was back on a submarine rigging the ship for reduced electrical.:eek:
A generator transfer panel and switch is now installed. It's an extra couple hundred dollars, but it's worth it. It also gave me a sub panel to free up some breaker space in the main panel.

PS
The portable generators require a somewhat uncommon male 240 connector, an L6-30, or L6-20 if memory serves me correctly. The people that bought generators after the power went out, could not get the proper connector(s) to use them. Make sure you have al of the necessary connectors if you go portable.
Additionally there is an internet website that sells dual and tri-fuel carburetor adaptors for most generator to allow you to use Gasoline, Natural gas, or Propane as a fuel source. Could be a handy adapter to have.

Brian Elfert
07-06-2012, 11:42 AM
Most of the big boxes carry L6-20 and L6-30 receptacles and plugs on the shelf. I just bought an L6-20 plug and receptacle at Menards about a week ago. They even carry some of the fancy four wire locking plugs.

I suppose when everyone is snapping up generators they are also emptying the shelves of the locking plugs.

Greg Portland
07-06-2012, 1:51 PM
A few comments:

1) Determine your total capacity. Do you want A/C running, elec. dryer, elec. range, etc.? Can you live if only 1 of those is on at a given time?
2) Decide if you want the backup to kick on and switch over automatically. This is a significant expense versus a manual switch.
3) For larger units, figure out where you're going to put it.
4) Determine if you're going to use NG from the street or your own tank w. other fuels (diesel? LPG?). Size the tank appropriately.
5) Right now, all the generators and installation services are going to be VERY $$$$. I would strongly consider waiting until the prices drop back down.
6) Used generators are an option; you'll want someone to go over the engine closely (just like buying a car).

My parents have a 4-cyl CAT generator with a LPG engine that they got used. They manually switch over to the generator on power outages. The downside to this is if they are out of town. However, we have other relatives in the area who would come over to switch over the power (run the fridges, etc.).

Ben Hatcher
07-06-2012, 4:31 PM
If you're thinking about spending $10k on a generator system that just sits there 99% of the time and costs you money the other 1%, you might want to look at bimodal solar systems with a battery backup and grid tie that will save you money every day and could make you money at times. While it might be cost prohivitive to buy a system capable of generating and storing enough to run an AC day and night, but they have enough benefits that I think they're worth a look.

Kevin W Johnson
07-06-2012, 7:10 PM
PS
The portable generators require a somewhat uncommon male 240 connector, an L6-30, or L6-20 if memory serves me correctly. The people that bought generators after the power went out, could not get the proper connector(s) to use them. Make sure you have al of the necessary connectors if you go portable.
Additionally there is an internet website that sells dual and tri-fuel carburetor adaptors for most generator to allow you to use Gasoline, Natural gas, or Propane as a fuel source. Could be a handy adapter to have.

Everything I've seen (new generators) uses an L14-30R (4 prong) for a 30A output.

Greg Portland
07-10-2012, 3:05 PM
If you're thinking about spending $10k on a generator system that just sits there 99% of the time and costs you money the other 1%, you might want to look at bimodal solar systems with a battery backup and grid tie that will save you money every day and could make you money at times. While it might be cost prohivitive to buy a system capable of generating and storing enough to run an AC day and night, but they have enough benefits that I think they're worth a look.
Some companies will install an entire solar electric system for free and then you pay them for utilities over the lifetime of the system. http://greenlivingideas.com/2010/10/13/free-solar-home-states/