Miter Box - New vs old

[Bill Stephenson]

I am looking for a quality miter box & I am considering a vintage Stanley 358. I was wondering if it may be better to go with a new Nobex made in Sweden. Accuracy is my priority, any input would be appreciated.

[Roy Griggs]

My vote would be for the 358; if you get one in good shape they are a most excellent tool with adjustability, ruggedness, and accuracy. Make sure it is as complete as possible, and that you get the right saw. I have seen the Nobex and it looked rather light duty compared to the Stanley with a good Disston saw. I don't have a Nobex and I've never tried one but I do have the Stanley and I like it. BTW, I gave my MFLangdon and saw to a friend (a couple years ago, before Chris S. made them so valuable) and kept my 358. I felt they were comprable and I had the 358 cutting better joints. *Caveat...I like Stanley tools, I have a few of them!
The 358 has quite a bit of adjustability built into it. I did have to tweak mine and have my saw sharpened. Once that was done it is an excellent performer.

[Charlie Stanford]

I am looking for a quality miter box & I am considering a vintage Stanley 358. I was wondering if it may be better to go with a new Nobex made in Sweden. Accuracy is my priority, any input would be appreciated.

I have the Nobex Pro. It works but it is a little tinny. If you can get the vintage Stanley and be assured that there's not a bent part or bent table or something that will throw it out of whack more or less irreparably then I'd do that.

Another alternative for a new saw is the big Ulmia miter box - it's pricey at over $600 I think. It's the real deal.

[David Weaver]

At the height of the craze, I paid $75 for a millers falls #74 box (langdon or whatever, I don't know, maybe it was 74B or C or something). I got it local by putting an ad on craigslist asking if someone would cough up a vintage box for $75, and I got a very good box that had been brazed from being dropped (but properly brazed, straight as an arrow). I would bet for the purpose of putting cabinet size stuff in it and getting after it, it is better than anything new.

My dad found me an extra excellent shape simonds vintage 27x5 saw for $3 (which I didn't need, but the price is right and it'll get ruined if it stays in his possession - it had already accumulated a bunch of overspray).

And shortly after that, I saw a larger gooddell pratt box in an antique shop near home (it was anville, pa or some town near there) for $50.

I just don't think you can touch the quality of those boxes with their saws on a new tool that doesn't run on electrons.

But don't be surprised if in the end, you don't use the box that much if you are decent with a backsaw cutting to a marked line.

[John Walkowiak]

What sized moldings are you cutting? The Stanley's, MF, ect. were made for carpenters, who at the time were dealing with 3/4" thick oak that was used for baseboards that may have been 6" high, and crown moldings 3"-6" wide. Those old box's excel at that. The heavy and long saws were made for it. For someone who is cutting furniture moldings they are overkill. I have had and sold a couple of those box's over the years. I really like old tools! But for me, the Nobex Pro is easier to use and more accurate for small moldings. It is light, so one has to secure it to a board and clamp that on the bench.

[Michael Horan]

After looking at a lot of listings for "complete" Langdon and Stanley miter boxes, I would compare them to the online old tool catalogs and something would always be missing. I don't know if they were critical somethings, so I went with the Nobex Champion. I agree with John. It's a little light, but you can get blades and accessories for it. I'm very happy with mine. The preset angles have a nice positive click. If you go with an old saw, try it out first, if possible, or buy it from someone reputable because finding parts could be a pain.

If you are really looking for accuracy, the best advice I got was to make a miter shooting board. That will get you closer to accurate than the best miter box. Professional picture framers use guillotines or miter hand sanders to get really accurate joints. A plane and miter shooted board will get you near that level of accuracy for the price of some scrap wood and screws.

[Gary Herrmann]

Piling on. I've never used a Nobex. They may be very good.

I've got a MF LA 74. Luckily it bought it a couple years before the Schwarz effect. I've used it to cut through 3" thick turning stock. The box is highly accurate. If someone were to make high quality miter box now that is comparable to the good vintage ones, I'll bet it would be $800 - $1000. How much is the Bridge City "table" saw? $1200?

If you're patient, you can find one with all of the parts. Check CL, look locally - don't just check the auction sites. Something with a little rust or paint spatters cleans up easily.

[David Weaver]

If someone made one now, they'd make it out of anodized aluminum and it would look horrible. It's definitely nice to get old things that were cast.

I understand the ability to mill just about anything out of soft metal now, but I sure don't like the look of most of the new stuff like that! It seems like an awful lot of stuff sold to woodworker's these days is aluminum colored by brand, and glued to melamine with plastic handled pot metal screws for adjustment. Yuck.

(part of that, though, is that few of us would pay for anything higher quality - too few to make it worth while).

[PAUL FOWLER]

AS a retired machinist, I completed my apprenticeship in mid 60's. I still have every file I ever purchased. Haven't needed to buy any for quite a while. Jobshop machinist here in Ca. don't even know what a file is. Cnc parts & tumbled to deburr!

Paul

[Mark Dorman]

I like my Millers Falls and as good as it is I still follow up with a chuting board. just can't beat a surface that has been planed.

[David Weaver]

AS a retired machinist, I completed my apprenticeship in mid 60's. I still have every file I ever purchased. Haven't needed to buy any for quite a while. Jobshop machinist here in Ca. don't even know what a file is. Cnc parts & tumbled to deburr!

Paul

No wonder we can't get any good files! the only people using them seem to be jewelers and crafters.

[Bill Stephenson]

Well looks like a mixed set of opinons with the vintage boxes having an edge. I am glad to see that some are happy with the nobex. I have been using a 12' chop saw to re place the wood work in my down stairs and every time i start it the handle must jump an inch from the torque. Starting the upstairs and looking for a quieter safer way. It looks like the Stanley will take up a lot of space and a 28" saw is big. Still mulling it over. I do use a shooting board when needed but it takes too much time.
Thanks to all who responded.

[Jim Matthews]

I own both. The chief advantage of the Nobex design is the sharp blade. It also aligns very well with tubular guides (like a linear bearing).

The Langdon I use is considerably heavier, and I believe the mass contributes to stability when cutting. In essence, if you can stiffen the
"backstop" portion of the Nobex on your bench and support the free end of the molding (so there isn't any bow in the workpiece) it should equal or surpass the performance of antiques.

The one step that has made all the difference for me is to use an auxiliary clamp to keep the molding down flat on the base. The cuts don't "walk" while cutting. I keep a finger on the free side to feel for lateral motion.

I think the antiques are awesome - but that's the Bromance factor, I like well maintained cast iron.

If there is a long-standing frame shop near you - why not ask what they use?

[Matthew Hills]

Well looks like a mixed set of opinons with the vintage boxes having an edge. I am glad to see that some are happy with the nobex. I have been using a 12' chop saw to re place the wood work in my down stairs and every time i start it the handle must jump an inch from the torque. Starting the upstairs and looking for a quieter safer way. It looks like the Stanley will take up a lot of space and a 28" saw is big. Still mulling it over. I do use a shooting board when needed but it takes too much time.
Thanks to all who responded.

Soft-start is a nice feature on powered tools. My makita miter saw and router both have it, and it is nice to not have that big jerk at the start. But, in their heart of hearts, both are still powered tools with the attendant trade-offs (don't feed them fingers after midnight, etc.)

Walt had a few mitre boxes posted recently. Since these went up at least a week ago, so I'm assuming that they aren't screaming bargains, but certainly worth taking a look at if you haven't found a great deal locally:
http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/new%20tools.html


Michael H: where did you see the old catalog listings that showed the complete, original mitre boxes?

Matt

[Derek Cohen]

I am looking for a quality miter box & I am considering a vintage Stanley 358. I was wondering if it may be better to go with a new Nobex made in Sweden. Accuracy is my priority, any input would be appreciated.

Hi Bill

I cannot speak for the Stanley #358 but I do have a #246. Over several years, it has provided accurate and reliable results. There are a few niggles, such as it has a dominating presence. I have just received a Miller Falls Langdon Acme #74A, and this is a much better design when it comes to the saw holding mechanism. The MF runs on bearings and the saw is clamped on all sides, while the Stanley is free to wiggle on bare metal. The downside of the MF is that the saw plate depth is critical, while the Stanley is more forgiving in this regard.

I had a Nobex-type saw once, which I gave away. The larger mitre boxes can handle large and small widths, while the Nobex is best suited to small moldings.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bill Stephenson]

I see a lot of people like the Langdon, I will se if I can dig one up in good condition. I am concerned that i don't know what parts need to be with it. I will have to research it if possible. Thanks to all for your comments.

[Michael Horan]

Matt, Bill,

Fine Tools has a pdf file of Langdon miter boxes. What they call the end brackets and the length gauges seem to be the parts that get lost.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS-borTools/MillersFalls/pubs/mf-MiterBoxes/MF-LangdonMBox-ne.pdf

Stanley catalogs. Rose Antiques has various year catalogs. The 1967 Repair Parts manual has detailed parts drawings on some of the miter boxes.

http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id16.html

Mike

[Tony Zaffuto]

At last count, I have 17 miter boxes, ranging from the smallest and the largest MF (plus a few sizes in between), Goodell Pratt and Stanley. These are complete and do not count the several others I have in various states of disrepair/breakage. Why so many? Well, several weeks ago I picked up another complete Stanley for $6.00 (and that was from an Amish man!). Most I paid something like $15 to $25 for box and saw, and it was an issue of just not passing up something with the gizmocity that goes into their making.

With that said, I very rarely use them! If I have a lot of repeat cuts, then maybe I'll use the Langdon (my favorite), but most of the time, mark, cut with nearest handsaw and clean up on shooting board (I also have a Lion miter trimmer, also used infrequently).

I doubt I'll ever consider selling any of them, as they're all mounted on plywood and hanging on my shop walls. Good conversation starters and have already lead to a few friends dropping off no longer wanted old tools.

[Gary Herrmann]

Tony, you know we need pics now.

Matt and Bill - one other thing to remember. The older Langdon Acmes (which is the kind I have) did not have end brackets or length stops. They had the two columnar hold downs which slid in and out through openings in the fence. The newer models don't have those openings.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I'll take and email pictures to whoever wants to post them here (I'm ashamed to say I've never figured out how to post pics).

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I have the Nobex pro because I needed to miter hand railings and my other miter boxes were not large enough. The Nobex did a great job. It is easy to change out the blades to match what you need to cut.

When I decided to do a larger set of moldings, I purchased a Festool Kapex saw, I really like that too :-)

If you lived closer to Columbus Ohio, I would tell you to try my Nobex to see what you thought.