Craftsman 22124 Table Saw questions

[Craig Andresen]

Hi all. Long time reader here, first time poster. I just picked up a 5 yr old Craftsman 22124 "zip code" saw with 1.75hp motor. This is my first table saw---I've been researching them off and on for years, but finally found the right deal and pulled the trigger. I have a couple of questions as I get familiar with this machine:

1) My most important question: When the saw comes up to speed, it has a nice hum to it upon reaching full RPM, but after that, it has a cyclic vibration every couple of seconds. It seems to cut straight. When the blade is stopped, there is no side to side play in the blade, nor is there any play in the height or angle adjustment wheels. The guy I bought it from had a 5 year in-home warranty from Sears and had it fully serviced in his shop once per year. The saw is spotless so I know it was well cared for. He said it was last serviced in Dec of 2011 and had the belt replaced, was fully cleaned, etc. He says it had the vibration from day 1 and was not something he was ever concerned about. My question to the experts here: Is this normal??? Never owning a table saw before, I wasn't sure, but as a mechanical engineer, it seemed very odd to me to have a cyclic vibration.

2) While I'm posting, if anyone has any suggestions for mobile bases, zero clearance inserts, or dado sets for this saw, please let me know! I'm open to making my own insert or base as well if somebody can point me in the right direction.

Thanks!

[scott spencer]

Craig - I owned a 22124 from 2005 to 2008 and was very happy with it. It ran on 220v, and could cut anything with a good 3/32" thin kerf blade. Mine didn't have the cyclic vibration that you described. I'm guessing, but I suppose it could be harmonics in play since it's cyclical. Whether it's belt, pulley, or blade related, I don't know. Have you tried changing blades? Also, check that the pulleys are in alignment, and that the belt is seated properly. I also recall the saw having a spring to help reduce bouncing from the motor....that spring was prone to coming out during shipping. Check to make sure it's in place.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/members/paul-w-gillespie-22102/albums/shop-tools/11873-spring-3.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawcloseup-1.jpg

Inserts for the older left tilt Delta Unisaws will fit this saw....I used Leecraft phenolic inserts and was very pleased. Whatever you end up using, just be sure it's stiff and doesn't flex.

The best dado set I've used is the Infinity Dadonator (~ $200)....it's just a great dado stack! The best bang for the buck IMHO is the Delta/DeWalt 7670 set for ~ $100....a taste of the premium sets for a price closer to entry level sets.

[Paul Wunder]

This saw was made by the Orion division of Steel City Toolworks. They also made, and sold through Sears and Woodcraft, a caster set that fit the 22124 perfectly. It looks like this:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2080750/33126/WoodRiver-Universal-Mobile-Base-Hardware-Kit.aspx#Information

I actually got mine (I bought four of them) from directly from Orion for $39 each. Mine had pre-drilled holes on the side of each caster to perfectly match the 22124 cabinet holes.

[Sean Walker]

When I got my 22124, it also had a bad vibration. I ordered a belt from sears and it fixed the issue. The original belt was real dry and had cracks in it.

[Craig Andresen]

Thanks for the tips and feedback, gentlemen. The saw is still in the shop of the guy I bought it from (picking it up later this week), but I'll certainly check everything out thoroughly when I get it home now that I know specifically what to look for.. Sounds like the belt and that spring are the main potential culprits. The thing that doesn't check out, however, is why Sears didn't fix those things in their in-home service visits as recent as 7 months ago. I'm wondering whether the older guy selling it to me is being completely truthful about everything!

Do you guys foresee any major reason for me to not follow through with this purchase based on a vibration like this (and potentially lose my deposit to the seller) or should this vibration be something someone who is fairly handy can remedy? I suppose I could just deal with it also if it doesn't affect accuracy. Seems fixable, but I guess I'm taking a small risk to get a saw at a good price.

[Paul Wunder]

Craig,

Have you considered calling Steel City Toolworks customer service for their take? They made the tablesaw and still use the basic design in their current line.

Do you have a mechanics stethescope (about $11). Perhaps that tool could help you zero in on the source of the vibration. My 22124 saw has never made any harmonic noise. Was his machine properly leveled and sitting properly on all four corners? How long did you run the saw...2 minutes, 5 minutes..15 minutes? Does the noise get progressively worse if the saw runs a while after start-up? I am not an engineer so I would be a bit leery of sounds that I couldn't explain.

[scott spencer]

If it cuts well, I doubt I'd let it interfere with the purchase if the price was right, but I have no idea about the dollars involved. First thing I'd try is a different blade.

[Craig Andresen]

Craig,

Have you considered calling Steel City Toolworks customer service for their take? They made the tablesaw and still use the basic design in their current line.

Do you have a mechanics stethescope (about $11). Perhaps that tool could help you zero in on the source of the vibration. My 22124 saw has never made any harmonic noise. Was his machine properly leveled and sitting properly on all four corners? How long did you run the saw...2 minutes, 5 minutes..15 minutes? Does the noise get progressively worse if the saw runs a while after start-up? I am not an engineer so I would be a bit leery of sounds that I couldn't explain.

I actually didn't realize that Steel City Toolworks would be able to help me with this saw (I figured since it says Craftman on it, I'd have to work through Sears), but thanks for the tip. I can certainly give them a call and see what they think. The saw was sitting on a concrete slab. I didn't set a level on it, but it appeared to be well set up as near as my eye could tell. I only ran it for 3 or 4 minutes so I can't say if it got better or worse, but the guy said it always did it so I would have thought he would have told me either way.

[Craig Andresen]

If it cuts well, I doubt I'd let it interfere with the purchase if the price was right, but I have no idea about the dollars involved. First thing I'd try is a different blade.

Thanks Scott. That's valuable advice for me right now so I appreciate it. The price is right so I think I'll follow through (unless Steel City support gives me a major reason to be alarmed).

[glenn bradley]

Still have mine. I have been in a position to "upgrade" a few times but, it cuts everything I put on it. Do take the time for a good alignment when you get it. The payback is well worth the effort.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Craig,

That's a great saw. The only reason I don't still have it us I upgraded to a SawStop so now my son has it. For zero inserts, get some 1/2" mdf and use your factory insert as a template with a patter router bit. Drill and tap the insert for leveling screws and drill a hole for the lock screw. You can make a bunch of inserts from a 2'x4' piece for little cash.

Cliff

[Cary Falk]

I would run it wouthout the blade and then without the belt and see if the problems goes away. That should narrow down what the problem is.

[Craig Andresen]

Craig,

That's a great saw. The only reason I don't still have it us I upgraded to a SawStop so now my son has it. For zero inserts, get some 1/2" mdf and use your factory insert as a template with a patter router bit. Drill and tap the insert for leveling screws and drill a hole for the lock screw. You can make a bunch of inserts from a 2'x4' piece for little cash.

Cliff

Thanks for the tip. I think making a few of these will be my first priority this weekend (other than fixing the vibration that is :-))

[Craig Andresen]

Cary, I thought about running it without the blade first, but is it really OK on the motor to run it without the belt (i.e. no load on it whatsoever)? If that's the case, I agree that the method you described would definitely help root cause the issue. I also got a tip to run the motor for a while to warm up the belt in case there is any set in the belt from the saw sitting unused for a while.

Edit: So if the vibration goes away with the blade off, it's the blade. If it goes away with the belt off, it's the belt, pulleys, missing spring from post #2, or alignment. If it DOESN'T go away with the belt removed, it's the motor, correct? How much are we talking to fix that???


I can't express my thanks to all of you enough. This site is full of extremely helpful and friendly people. I'll post back if one of the ideas above does not solve the problem, and I will also report back with what the solution was!

[Cary Falk]

Edit: So if the vibration goes away with the blade off, it's the blade. Yes
If it goes away with the belt off, it's the belt, pulleys, missing spring from post #2, or alignment.That would be a good place to start

If it DOESN'T go away with the belt removed, it's the motor, correct? If you could run the motor completely out of the saw would be best to issolate if it is the motor. It could be an unbalanced motor pully. Wouldn't think it could be bearings but you never know.

How much are we talking to fix that??? Don't know

but is it really OK on the motor to run it without the belt. Yes

[Curt Harms]

If I were in your position and were going to replace the belt, I'd think about a cogged belt. My understanding is that they're not prone to taking a set and they're cheaper than link belts. Belts seem to be common sources of vibration on contractor saws and presumably on any saw using a V belt drive. Sorta like this but the correct length.

http://www.amazon.com/Goodyear-Engineered-Products-Torque-Flex-Approx/dp/B004HFRW28

[Ryan Wood]

A couple of weeks ago I got a link belt from HF for my delta contractors saw and it has reduced the vibration from alot down to so little that it can pass the nickle test.

[scott spencer]

The 22124 is a Steel City/Orion hybrid that uses a serpentine style belt with proprietary pulleys. V-belts or link belts won't work unless you change the pulleys too.

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00dCGEwkYzlybO/Pk-Ribbed-V-Belt-Serpentine-Belt.jpg

[Rick Hubbard]

I have had the same problem. The FIRST time I fixed I just replaced the belt, but soon the belt failed. I looked carefully and discoverd the drive pulley on the motor had moved ever-so-slightly on the shaft. I bought another belt, aligned the pulley and tightened the set screw. That lasted about 6 months, then the virbation started again and very quickly thereafter the belt failed once more. Bought yet another belt, aligned the pulley and this time I applied some Loctite (Blue Type).

This may not be what is wrong with your saw, but it is at least something to look at.

Good Luck

[Craig Andresen]

Rick, was your vibration very cyclical like I described mine was?

I still haven't been able to root cause this issue further, but I finally have a truck available to me tonight so will have the saw at my house to play around with later today.

[Joe Kaufman]

Another thing to consider is a motor can be in relatively good dynamic balance but be out of balance magnetically. The shorting bars in the rotor are generally cast in place when the rotor assembly is encased in aluminum. If there is porosity or incomplete filling of the channels the induced current and resulting magnetic field will not produce a uniform rotation. One of the byproducts of this condition is audible noise and vibration. If this is the condition, not much can be done to improve the situation short of replacing the motor. You might try applying pressure on the sides of cabinets and the plastic door assembly while it is running. I have 3 motors for my 22124 (long story) and one is considerably louder and has much more vibration than the others running no load out of the saw. By the way, I didn't have the motors labled and the noisy one ended up back in the saw. So after 6 changes in 2 weeks, I decided the noise and vibration wasn't worth another motor swap. That was 7+ years ago........

[Craig Andresen]

3 motors, wow. How much do the 22124 motors cost out of curiosity?

I finally got the saw to my house today and can start to figure out what the deal is. I did confirm that the spring from post #2 is in place and appears to be installed correctly. It's going to be this weekend probably before I have time to dig into it fully unfortunately.

[Joe Kaufman]

Craig,

The starting capacitor failed after a few starts when the saw was new. Sears tech came by and said they would send a replacement motor as they can't change the capacitor. I already had the motor out so I said I would install the new one. The replacement was literally dropped shipped - one capacitor was knocked off and the mounting foot was bent. Called Orion directly and they sent a another motor. It arrived with a dented cap cover but functionally OK. The cost was a replacement cap and cover <$20 and a little work for the 3 motors.

Orion changed to a wider belt and pulleys after my saw. I believe they added another rib or two to the width. Haven't had any problems with the original belt. I think the new parts list indicated the change by serial number.

[Denny Rice]

Craig,

Like Scott S. I purchased my Craftsman 22124 back in 2006-07 and I have a couple of times thought about the purchase of a full size cabinet saw and then soon talk myself out of it. This saw is a workhorse, and will do anything I ask of it, so last time I came close to buying a new saw I bought a new Jet lathe instead (1642EVS). I have never expierenced what you are describing with my saw, but I do have a floor model drill press that has the Craftsman name on it, that was built by Orion-i.e. Steel City Toolworks and the handle of the drill press locked up and snapped in half. I called Steel City and within 7 days I had a new handle at my doorstep free of charge. This happened back around 2009, but SC was very good about fixing the problem. I think I will wait till son is out of college and a new saw might be in my future, until then my 22124 just keeps zipping along~! I hope you enjoy the saw.

[Craig Andresen]

Craig,

Like Scott S. I purchased my Craftsman 22124 back in 2006-07 and I have a couple of times thought about the purchase of a full size cabinet saw and then soon talk myself out of it. This saw is a workhorse, and will do anything I ask of it, so last time I came close to buying a new saw I bought a new Jet lathe instead (1642EVS). I have never expierenced what you are describing with my saw, but I do have a floor model drill press that has the Craftsman name on it, that was built by Orion-i.e. Steel City Toolworks and the handle of the drill press locked up and snapped in half. I called Steel City and within 7 days I had a new handle at my doorstep free of charge. This happened back around 2009, but SC was very good about fixing the problem. I think I will wait till son is out of college and a new saw might be in my future, until then my 22124 just keeps zipping along~! I hope you enjoy the saw.

Thanks for the post. So far so good with this thing. As my first saw, I have been going through the process (slowly) of verifying the setup/calibration, reading the manual, and I threw a good coat of paste wax on it last night. Upon initial checks, everything looks like it's setup properly. I also got a used mobile base from one of our fellow forum members here (thanks Michael!) that I need to install.

As fo my vibration problem, I haven't solved it yet. Taking the blade off doesn't solve it. I haven't run the saw without the belt yet, but I'll do that next after I get back in town. At that point, I think I'll take the top off and start the calibration process from scratch, but that will give me more room to make sure the pulleys are aligned, etc.

[Frank Hegg]

I've found a 22124 on CL for ~$575, $475 (+$50 in gas to pick up, +cost of rolling base) and does not have the orig biesemeyer fence, he has a craftsman xr2424 on it.




I'm also considering the steel city 35926, it's now avail on amazon for $849 total (no tax where I live and free ship to door)




My third choice is the grizzly G0715p for ~$895, $725 (+tax +$50 in gas to pick +63 for rolling base.)




Any opinions on what you think the better deal is?

[Joseph Tarantino]

steel city has several saws on sale through year end:

http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/pdf/USA2012fall_lowres.pdf

the 35926 is a good saw, but i'm personally partial to CI. i'd look to the 35950. it has a very good fence and is all CI. the griz 0715 is also a well regarded saw, as long as you don't get one that has the blade parallelism issue.

[Mike Manders]

Hey Craig, this guy had what sounds like a similar problem with his 22124: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/slow-modulated-vibrations-new-table-saw-craftsman-22114-a-18454/

Maybe the thread will give some insight?