Shaper hood widths

[Mike Heidrick]

Measured the widths of my shaper hoods tonight for you guys. Shaper fences are a G1026 original fence, 43-812x delta replacement, and T1002S Laguna fence and tenoning hood.

G1026S stock fence

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/P7014119.jpg


43-812x (also showing milled faces of plate and the broken RAM I received)

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/P7014113.jpg




Laguna T1002S stock fence (also showing sliding fingers 5/8X7/16)

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/P7014117.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/P7014115.jpg


Laguna Tenoning hood (resting on sawstop for picture)

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/P7014118.jpg

[Jeff Duncan]

Just FWIW, my thought is in theory these companies make their hoods a certain size based on the largest tooling they feel you should swing on there. So even though you replace the hood with one sporting a larger opening, not sure if they would be up to running larger cutters:confused:

Or put another way, I don't recommend putting a big ole' 9" tenoning disc on that little grizzly shaper even if you have the larger hood in place;)

good luck,
JeffD

[David Kumm]

the size of the table rings are another indication of how large of a cutter the machine can handle. Unless the cutter is light, you shouldn't use a diameter much larger than can be buried - at least without checking out the quill assembly. We talk shaper comparisons but don't often talk about the most important comparison- how robust is the quill casting and assembly. Pictures of the inside of different shapers would be helpful info when buying.

How stout are the fingers on the Laguna- Stiles type fence? Do they work easily and are you happy with the fence? Dave

[Mike Heidrick]

The fingers are very stout. I like them so far but mostly have used them around and over cutters not between. I love the precision of the fence but there are only scales - not digital readouts so repeatability is not as easy. I think I would love that rotate/tilt away and then rotate back perfectly in place feature on other euro fences but that may have been a martin. For the price I paid for the shaper I love it - I would not for Laguna's full web price though.

[Peter Quinn]

Just FWIW, my thought is in theory these companies make their hoods a certain size based on the largest tooling they feel you should swing on there. So even though you replace the hood with one sporting a larger opening, not sure if they would be up to running larger cutters:confused:

Or put another way, I don't recommend putting a big ole' 9" tenoning disc on that little grizzly shaper even if you have the larger hood in place;)

good luck,
JeffD


So say I just bought a shaper with a 13.5" gap between fence plates and a 13" hole in the table.......where can I find 13" tooling? Ok, I know a few companies that sell things that big....but where can I find the courage to chuck up such a cutter and push the on button? More important, where can I find the money? I think Lueco has some interesting Youtube videos of their plant with CNC's making cutters the size of truck tires. Next time I need to make a 7" tenon in one pass i'll keep them in mind.

To pay for collage I worked in a concrete precast factory, one of the things we made were the bases for the lights that go along the highway. The big tall lights....and I can tell you that the little nub that sticks up is just the tip of the ice berg, the part under the ground is about 100 times larger to handle the wind load. So when I look at a shaper now, I look under the table first. If I don't see something about 10X the size of the usable spindle minimum, I'm concerned. LOL at the though of chucking up a 9" cutter on a 3HP delta clone, because I'd bet its been tried somewhere.

[David Kumm]

It's not just the diameter but the weight as well. Look at Oella Saw and Tool for heavy cutters that are reasonably priced because so few hobby types can use them. There are lots of 10-20 lb cutters and I've heard of them up to 50 lbs. The quill assembly on the shaper should be heavier than the yoke and trunnion on the table saw. Dave

[Peter Quinn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f-vB21iQaY, check out around 2:55. Big doughnut.

[Mike Heidrick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDMDdOx-i3g&feature=related

There is my shaper (I bought this demo machine from Laguna after all their T1002S and tooling filming) and at 3:00 Laguna starts making the door.You can see the fence fingers. At 5:00 you can also see the RP cutter I have from Garniga. It is much larger than my freud and LRH RP cutters and my RP2000. The machine is so smooth though it really is easier to use than my router table. The sliding table and its fences make holding teh work very secure. Quick adjust hold downs make make using the safety features easy too.

[Joe Calhoon]

We use 320mm (12 5/8”) insert tenon disks daily. Usually on a tenoner but occasionally on shapers to to angled and curved joints. These heavy disks surprisingly run smooth on shapers. The problem comes in holding the work to take such a big cut. If you do a lot of this you will find most shaper sliding tables not up to the job. That is why many Euro shapers (Martin, SCM ETC) have as an option the large side mount tenon table that is built similar to those on a tenoner.


Tenon disks used to be designed to run 3000 to 3500 RPM. The newer disks are so well balanced they can run at 4500 RPM. It takes a shaper with a lot of HP to start one of these 40 lb cutters at 4500, even with soft start. VFD is ideal for this.


It’s pretty intimidating with the air movement and noise the first time you use one on a shaper. To be safe you need a tenon hood, stout sliding table and good clamping.


Joe

[David Kumm]

Hey Joe, great points as always. We had not talked about cope cuts much. Since large cutters are often used for that purpose, the quality and strength of a sliding table and the fence and the ability to lock that fence down tightly so it doesn't creep under the cut are big deals. Hold downs both vertically and horizontally should be used as holding the wood against the fence by hand is a horrible idea. Those tenon tables on shapers are massive and they give you an idea of what forces to expect when using them. Dave

[Jeff Duncan]

So say I just bought a shaper with a 13.5" gap between fence plates and a 13" hole in the table.......where can I find 13" tooling?



I don't have any tooling that big myself, but as Joe said it's out there. The worst I've seen was a setup with an older Whitney shaper that had a head which must have been just around 2' tall:eek: IIRC those heads were used in some way with automotive production....maybe for patterns or something....don't really know??? Might have seen it somewhere over at OWWM? Anyway I just remember thinking to myself what it must feel like to fire up a head that big and start feeding something into it! Not something for the new guy at the shop to tackle;)

FWIW I would hazard a guess that 1-1/4" spindles are probably on the light side for a 12" diameter dinner plate? Maybe Joe would have some better insight on this? I think I'd be more comfortable with a slightly bigger spindle size for a monster like that.....if I ever needed one.

JeffD

[J.R. Rutter]

So say I just bought a shaper with a 13.5" gap between fence plates and a 13" hole in the table.

Did you find one?

[Peter Quinn]

Did you find one?

I did. I persued many avenues, thanks to a tip from Jeff, I found a Paoloni T-850, not sure the age actually, mid 80's? Big cartridge, similar in size to a t-110, solid cast iron base, smallish table (28X37), 6.6HP, very tight tolerances. Can't wait to fire it up, just unloaded it from the van tonight, will be dropping this one into the basement shop with an excavator. I'm told its working on 900# and it feels that heavy. I pulled it out of the van with a 2 ton engine hoist, way easier than a hand truck! Came with an MEC feeder, never heard of it but its the heaviest thing I have ever picked up, new urethane wheels. Will post proper pics when its placed. Its a cool piece of "old italian iron", if such a thing exists.