Pax Saws...

[Brian Cameron]

Until now I have always used mechanical means to do tenons...but with retirement the time to do things by hand is here..I am looking at buying a PAX tenoning saw next week at LV...is this a good starter level saw or? With your answer note that I am 450 miles from the nearest major center so most of my shopping for shop tools is via the net ..
Thanks
Brian

[John Coloccia]

Personally, I'd lean towards the Veritas saws. I've been very pleased with mine.

[george wilson]

I am pretty sure that you will find the Pax saws to be made of softer steel. Get a Veritas.

[Rick Fisher]

+1 .. Get the Veritas saw ..

[Eugenio Musto]

I use the Veritas carcass saw for tenons.You can take this one or you can wait the Veritas tenon saw but i don't know when it will be available..

[Peter Pedisich]

Brian,

I do not own the Veritas molded-back saw, but I do own an older Pax.
If you prefer a lighter saw with less set and easy starting, and that cuts well out of the box, the Veritas has my vote. The Veritas has a comfortable handle as well. I did not like the matte black color of the back, this I'm sure is a personal thing. The saw cuts straight and clean. My experience is based on playing with it for a while at WIA.
If you prefer a heavy brass back and tall blade, the Pax would be the choice... just keep in mind the added cost of having it tuned-up by a pro like Matt Cianci (he'll reduce the set and sharpen it with care and precision). Then there's the handle. The Pax handle is like the beech handle on my Footprint dovetail saw, meaning it is more comfortable than it may first appear (but still cannot compare to the soft contours of the Veritas, which is wonderfully shaped) but it has sharp transitions and the horns dig in... figure in some rasp and sandpaper work.

Good Luck,

Pete

[Randall Farris]

Brian, it depends on what you are planning to build. I have both saws.
The Veritas is a great saw but I think it is very light-weight. If your tenons are very long or in thick stock, It is going to be slow going.
The Pax saw has a good heft to it and works well in thicker stock. I have not had any issues with either one.

[John Coloccia]

re: weight
I'm surprised that you say the Pax is heavier backed than the Veritas. My experience with their dovetail says has been that the Veritas is amongst the heaviest I've ever used, if not the heaviest. The back isn't just molded plastic like everyone thinks but it's like some metal powder composite thing. I forget now but it's a lot more metal than it looks and very heavy.

[Randall Farris]

John, I wanted to verify my information so I weighed both saws.
My Veritas weighed 0.85 lbs and the Pax weighed in at 1.78 lbs.
Now my Pax is an older one (7-8 years), don't know know if current versions are lighter.

[Erik Manchester]

Brian,

You will not find a better deal for a quality saw in Canada than the Veritas saws. I have many high quality vintage saws that I use regularly, as well as two Veritas DT saws and they are every bit as good, and a whole lot cheaper, as any vintage saw of comparable quality. You will not be disappointed.

[John Coloccia]

John, I wanted to verify my information so I weighed both saws.
My Veritas weighed 0.85 lbs and the Pax weighed in at 1.78 lbs.
Now my Pax is an older one (7-8 years), don't know know if current versions are lighter.

It may be different for the dovetail saws vs the carcass saws.

[Brian Cameron]

Thanks guys for all the input..I guess I will have to make the decision at the Lee Valley store on Friday
Brian

Three laws of the Shop:
1) Wood always moves
2) Rust never sleeps
and for the Red Green fans
3) Duct tape fixes everything

[george wilson]

Regardless of weight,the Veritas will have higher carbon steel than the Pax. It will stay sharp longer.

[David Keller NC]

Until now I have always used mechanical means to do tenons...but with retirement the time to do things by hand is here..I am looking at buying a PAX tenoning saw next week at LV...is this a good starter level saw or? With your answer note that I am 450 miles from the nearest major center so most of my shopping for shop tools is via the net ..
Thanks
Brian

Brian - OK, so this is about as opinionated as it gets, so take it with a grain of salt. In this day and age of extremely high quality handsaws being made by a number of different makers, the PAX is a dinosaur. There are several reasons, but the really bad part is the tote (handle). In the 70's when one couldn't buy an acceptable backsaw, the PAX was a decent competitor. And it really hasn't changed since. A handle that appears (and feels) like a child's cardboard cut-out is just no longer acceptable.

Several companies, including Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley have figured out how to produce a handle that approaches hand-shaped without costing as much as completely hand-shaped, so there's no excuse for producing a saw tote with no refinement whatsoever from the CNC router.

You may also wish to consider that buying a backsaw is only required once in your lifetime (and if it's a decent saw, your children's and grandchildren's lifetime). Spending an extra $100 on it will be long forgotten next year. But a mediocre saw will be remembered everytime you pick it up. And it's only marginally resaleable to boot.

[george wilson]

Hear!! Hear!!