Got a bigger bandsaw (finally)

[mreza Salav]

Well after watching the used market for a couple of years I finally found a good deal on a bigger bandsaw, which unfortunately was
about 900kms away (in Kelowna BC).
Had a friend who was on a vacation trip check the saw out and it gave the Ok. After arraning with the seller, paying him had the saw picked up by the freight company yesterday
and it was delivered. Arranging for delivery had a bit of hick-up (the time frame of 1-4 was stretched and the saw arrived around 6:00pm).
The seller had done a wonderful job in crating this beast. The saw itself is around 600lb and I had estimated a 650lb crate. When the driver said it's 875lb I thought it's a mistake but after taking the crate apart I think it could be.

Here are the photos of taking it out of the truck. As it was over 7ft tall, the driver said he couldn't put it on the lift gate as it would tilt too much. Fortunately I had some pieces of 2x6 around to put under one side of the crate to reduce the amount of tilt.

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Then it was clear it wasn't go under the garage door. So I asked him to leave the crate on the drive way and started unpacking the crate

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It felt that by pushing the door a little bit up I could roll it into the garage until I saw a sticking bolt on the top http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/images/smilies/1eek.gif

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[mreza Salav]

After removing that it came right into the garage without any problem.

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It is a Griggio SNA600 which I understand is built by ACM (in Italy) with 3HP 3-phase motor. The height under the guides is about 14.5" but if one removes the guides (which are not absolutely needed in these sizes of saw) it gives a height of about 17.5".
The seller told me he bought this saw about 4-5 years ago but never used it (didn't even put a blade on it). It is covered with dust as it had been sitting in his shop, but the tires on the wheels show no sign of any blade being there and the table insert is never cut by a blade. So it appears it is indeed never used.

My workshop is in the basement and unlike all other machines I've taken there I'm not going to even try taking this down there. We are building a new house and this saw sits in the garage in the next year or two until that house is ready. Hopefully I can run a temporary wire for when I need to use this saw in the garage. I'm going to keep my 14" saw and use this one as a resaw saw.
I have to wait until Tuesday to see how much extra the freight company is going to charge me because of the extra weight. The initial quote they had given me was $227 which is way better than any other quote I had received. If I wanted to drive there to pick it up myself I'd had to pay more on gas EACH way!

Now I have to get a VFD as well as a blade.
Hopefully I'll never have to upgrade again, that's what my wife asked me when I was bringing this in http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/images/smilies/1biggrin.gif

[Van Huskey]

Yahoo!! YOO SUCK EH! What blade and what VFD are you thinking about? I had to do the same for one of my saws BUT it didn't have wheels... had to wrestle it (700lb) off the pallet onto a piece of 3/8" ply and slide err grunt it into the garage... That wasn't as bad as my MM20 which had to be litled back REALLY far on hand trucks to get it in!

[mreza Salav]

Thanks Van.
I'm thinking of getting RK. What do you recommend? This saw accepts up to 1 3/8" but I think 1" is enough for resawing.

I see Laguna has a promotion of buy one get one 50%. I was wondering if there is anyone here who wants to buy one and we share the discount
(basically we buy two and get 25% off each).

As for VFD, I'm not sure yet. In that thread I started I linked two (one was chinese) and Chris spoke very good of them based on experience.
They provide 2 year warranty (not sure how useful that would be) but the price is also good. One thing I'd need help for though is to figure out how to do the wiring.

[Dirk Lewis]

What size blade does it take? for the Laguna sale, does it need to be 2 blades of the same length? if not, I 'may' be interested.

[Van Huskey]

Thanks Van.
I'm thinking of getting RK. What do you recommend? This saw accepts up to 1 3/8" but I think 1" is enough for resawing.

I see Laguna has a promotion of buy one get one 50%. I was wondering if there is anyone here who wants to buy one and we share the discount
(basically we buy two and get 25% off each).

As for VFD, I'm not sure yet. In that thread I started I linked two (one was chinese) and Chris spoke very good of them based on experience.
They provide 2 year warranty (not sure how useful that would be) but the price is also good. One thing I'd need help for though is to figure out how to do the wiring.

The RK is always at the top of my list, you could PROBABLY get away with a 1.25" on that saw since the RK is a thin gauge compared to most carbide blades but I am a big fan of correct (high) tension on carbide blades versus width so I would probably get a 1".

I knew you were looking at the Teco and the Chinese eBay drive, I selfishly want you to get the Chinese drive and "check them out for us"... I have decided to do all my 3ph via VFD since it offers all sorts of goodies (one big one is speeding up my jointer since it is direct drive, thanks for the idea Dave) and I have 3 small applications I would really like to use the cheaper drives on.

The wiring isn't as complicated as it sounds/looks. There are plenty of guys here that can walk you through it. I can do it but still need to look at the documentation, lots of guys can just walk up and wire one like I can a light switch.

[mreza Salav]

Drik: I spoke to Laguna today and they said they don't sell to me (Canada) directly and we have to go through the dealers. I don't know if they would offer such a promotion and how much mark-up they would want. No disrespect to you but I was thinking of pairing with one of the US members here and have them delivered to him and ask him to ship one to me.

Van: thanks for the comment about blade. One other question from you: the blade length for this is listed as 4520-4600mm (which is approximately between 178-181"). What would be an ideal size
to order? should I try in the middle, and say 179"?
As for VFD: if I can figure out that those chinese ones come with some sort of documentation/manual to show how to do the wiring I might get it.
BTW, they offer it in 2, 3, and 4HP and the price of 4HP isn't much more than 3HP. Would you recommend opting for the 4HP instead? I feel it might not be useful beyond 3HP as 4HP isn't a very common size.

[gary Zimmel]

Sweet find on the new bandsaw Mo...
I'm thinking it is going to be a long time before you need another upgrade.
If it is a hassle having it in your garage you can always store it in my shop till you get the new house built...:D

[David Kumm]

Mreza, there is no harm in going with a little larger vfd. Will give you a little more help in braking although I would guess you will need to set the brake for 30 sec or so. I'd get 179-180. I generally leave an inch or two but no more so if it breakers you have room to reweld- if you are lucky. 24" is a nice size. I also agree with the 1" blade. Will give the same performance and be 20% easier to tension. That model 24" from ACM has a slightly lighter frame than the 640 version so I think that RK will give you the best option. Sweet saw. Dave

[mreza Salav]

Thanks Gary for the offer, I'll keep it for a while and see how it goes :D

Thanks David for the advice. You are right it is lighter/smaller than SNA640 (that has larger fly wheels and overall is 40kg heavier) but should be sufficient for me.

[James Conrad]

Nice buy! Good luck with it.
JC

[Van Huskey]

Two things regarding the VFD sizing, well three. One, it doesn't hurt to go a little big like Dave said. Two, check and make sure the "4hp" unit accepts single phase input, many if not most of the drives move to 3ph input between 3 and 5 hp but the "name brand" don't normally have a 4hp drive in their line. Third, check the FLA output of the drive compared to your motor, I took a very cursory look back at those drives and the one I looked at showed 10 FLA for the 3hp the motor the motor I need to drive is 10.4 FLA, the 3hp FM50 is 10.5FLA... It looks like the "4hp" drives are 13 FLA. If you do decide to go this route please document the seller and how it went. I am sure the wiring and use process will be documented! You might do a "from when I knew little of VFD to look at my cheap 3phase power runnin' my new bandsaw" thread it might take the mystery out of 3ph for some folks. Unless I have missed it there hasn't been a good this is how I did it VFD thread.

[Van Huskey]

Forgot regarding blade length, split it down the middle, thats what I always do. One note about going too close to the max/min length, something people don't think about is you can't weld a bandsaw blade to many EXACT lengths, they have to be cut to have the teeth line up properly for welding so they are almost always a little off, particularly in the low TPI blades, normally a welder will go LONGER instead of shorter (unless I guess if it is an 1/8" short or something like that).

[mreza Salav]

Thanks Van.

The problem is the min and max blade length difference is 3" (178-181") and the middle is 179.5" but I can order only 179" or 180" with Laguna.

[Van Huskey]

Thanks Van.

The problem is the min and max blade length difference is 3" (178-181") and the middle is 179.5" but I can order only 179" or 180" with Laguna.

Sorry, I didn't mean EXACT you somewhere close to the middle, that said I bet you can spec a 1/2" difference with Laguna since they weld their own BUT like I said unless the teeth fall just perfect for welding it will vary a little no matter what.

[mreza Salav]

I called Laguna to order blades and the salesperson (Jay) said he is quite familiar with this saw and suggested to go with 1.25" instead. He said that saw is quite capable of this
blade no problem. I went with his advice but a bit nervously. Should I call back and change order to 1"?

[Van Huskey]

It will be fine at 1.25". Laguna sales people almost always recommend a blade 1/4" larger than I do with the RK, I am conservative on width since I think one gains more by proper tension than width and I like breathing room with tension. If it was a thicker band like the Lenox Trimaster I might suggest calling them back, for the RK you will be fine, just don't expect to have a lot of "spring left" when it is fully tensioned. No problems!

[mreza Salav]

Great to hear that, thanks Van. I'm new to these bigger saws.
The guy was quite positive that he knows the saw quite well and that it would have no problem.

[Van Huskey]

As I said I tend to be conservative, maybe too much in certain cases. The blade you really have to wtach out for is the 1.25" Trimaster, it increases surface area by 50% (since it is not only wider but thicker) over the 1" Trimaster so it needs 50% more pressure from the spring. The RK uses the same thin gauge over the full range of 3/4-1 1/4" so the pressure rises in a linear fashion between blades.

[David Kumm]

You will be fine but always take Van's advice over Laguna with respect to blades. Some of the sales guys are better than others but difficult to cull the herd over the phone. Years ago they sold me a 1" Trimaster for my LT 18- dumb squared on my part. They sold the lighter version of the ACM for years so they should be familiar with it. Would be interesting to know if they are aware of the differences between the build of the 600 and 640 and their recommendations accordingly. Would be good to put a tension gauge on it and see what the saw will take with that blade so others would know- assuming a decent gauge. Dave

[mreza Salav]

When you say a tension gauge I suppose something that shows the actual PSI not the stock gauge that is more of a rough guideline, right?
Are those easy to find/get?
Here is the photo of what is on the saw (which I think is similar to the ones on Laguna and a few other Italian saws):

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[mreza Salav]

One more thing for Van:
I just ordered FM50-203-C from Factorymation instead of those Chinese ones off e-bay. There were several ones on e-bay that looked alike and some where saying others are of low quality. The more expensive ones that "claimed" to be of better quality weren't that much cheaper than getting from a more reliable source (like Factorymation). So sorry I won't be your ginnie pig for those VFD ;)

[Van Huskey]

Dave is talking about a strain gauge like Starrett, Lenox and Iturra sell, easy to get not cheap unless you find a deal used. You can just use a micrometer to measure the elongation of the blade over a specific distance and do some simple math, this will give you a pretty good idea what you are looking at. I will find a thread that details (with pics, I could just describe it but rather just crib someone elses thread) and post a link, it may not be until later today but you don't have the blade yet anyway.

I try to only recommend what I "know" (pretty sure) will work since I don't want someone buying a $200-300 blade based on something I say since they have no recourse with me other than calling me names. Again, my point being I will be on the conservative side and in the case of a large carbide tipped blade the positives gained from a wider blade are balanced against a saws potential to not be able to create ideal tension on the blade. As I said in this case I think you are fine! Don't sweat it!

[Van Huskey]

One more thing for Van:
I just ordered FM50-203-C from Factorymation instead of those Chinese ones off e-bay. There were several ones on e-bay that looked alike and some where saying others are of low quality. The more expensive ones that "claimed" to be of better quality weren't that much cheaper than getting from a more reliable source (like Factorymation). So sorry I won't be your ginnie pig for those VFD ;)

I don't blame you!!! The thing I am running into about those is mainly in the documentation and support area and both of those mean something to me. The price difference between the Teco and "Hyuangpoop" drives is low enough I don't need to potential headache. Also ordering from a company who's eBay ID is something like Happyhappyjoyjoyselling and also sells combs and tinker-toys makes me a little uncomfortable. In the end I may pick one up for a project I have in mind but it will be part of the experiment as well.

[mreza Salav]

I understand your point Van and I have learned a great deal from you and David on this forum (thank you!).
It's just that at the moment of ordering the sales guy talked me into the larger blade after asked me what saw it is for. /
As for tension gauge: I might try rigging one myself like the one in the following link using a micro-meter:
http://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/tension.html