Managed to find another USA Nicholson file today.

[george wilson]

I stopped at Home Depot today,just to see if another USA made file had turned up. I did find one. All the rest were Mexican. So,there are still some out there in the borgs.

I was tempted to buy a Mexican 8" mill file to test,but decided not to. They DO look fine,but so did the triangular ones which were soft. I'd end up just having to drive several miles to wag it back if it proved to be soft. About 20 miles in all.

Instead,I went to the grocery store and got charged $4.00 a pound for $1.99 tomatos,and charged for lettuce I didn't buy!!

The house alarm went off when I was gone. The alarm service called me on the cell. I called 911,and kept getting the same questions asked 3 or 4 times. I know they have a protocol,but I can't see why their protocol includes asking the same questions over and over. Couldn't return the alarm co's. call because it is their POLICY to call with their FAX number. I don't get that at all,and am not particularly happy with 911 or the alarm co. Turned out my 40 pound dog set off the motion detector,so it needs to be adjusted.

Not as good a day as Gordon's "A good day post"!!

All in all, I should have stayed home,I guess,except for the file.:) This post has nothing to do with woodworking,except to encourage you guys to keep checking for stray USA Nicholsons. The one I got wasn't a favorite of mine. It ia a rather coarse lawnmower blade file with the built in flat handle,but at least it WILL FILE!!!

[David Weaver]

There's an old school hardware store near here, in a community (i.e., it's a place that gets mostly local business only). I think it's an Ace, but that doesn't matter too much. I was in there to buy screen for a screen door, and noticed they had about 6 usa mill files left and some half rounds. I took about half of them.

There may be some left at places like that that have low product turnover. I cleaned out the borgs here long ago, the blue ones haven't had quality files at all for years. I guess they'd rather sell chinese lights and bath fixtures.

[peter leyden]

I have roughly 100 files - the majority are Nicholson old stock, along with some Heller and miscellaneous brands. Most of the files are new, some are in the original wrapping and box. If you need any get in touch and I'll see if I have what you need.
Peter Leyden

[george wilson]

Actually,I have a lot of files. Many are needle file sets. I use an 8" Nicholson mill file for a lot of general use,and those I try to get if I can.

[Darren Brewster]

I got a USA Nicholson file from Lee Valley a couple years back. A very nice surprise that was. My closest borg sells Stanley files. They look nice, but that is probably the only good thing about them.

[Tony Shea]

Funny you posted this george. I just recently stopped in at our local Mardens. Not sure if this store is a chain in other states but it is just full of discount items that are either old, gone through natural disaster's or are just plain junk that no one wants. I looked through the tool isle as they have something decent once in a blue moon. Well their file rack was over flowing onto the shelving. I started going through em, (now that I have a bit of a file addiction) and they had loads of different style USA made Nicholson's. I bought every file I saw, even though it was an odd one. I walked out there with a bunch of 8" and 10" mills, a bunch of 6" xtra slim triangles, and a load of other assorted files for under $25.

Then on the shelf next to it there was a 14.4V panasonic drill.

[Gary Herrmann]

I made the rounds of the big box stores close to me late last year looking for Nicholsons. At the time, there was still a somewhat decent selection. I check periodically when I go now, but I haven't seen any in quite a while.

[george wilson]

I even saw a Milwaukee USA made drill at Home Depot. Just one. All the rest were the newer Chinese made Milwaukees,which I've heard are not as good,but no cheaper,either. Funny how the older USA made stuff disappears from shelves so quickly.

[Ron Bontz]

Just since this is on files. What do folks think about the K&F files for saws? Sorry you had a bad day George. Sounds like one of my days.

[Lex Boegen]

OK, not intending to hijack this thread, but...if I can't find any USA-made Nicholson files, what brands do you guys recommend?

[John Coloccia]

As far as I know, Grobet is the only one making a reliably good file these days. Simonds used to make a good file. I don't know where they're made anymore or if they're still good anymore. Someone correct me: I think some are made in South America, some elsewhere, and the quality is inconsistent. That's just what I've heard, I don't know, but I just don't have time to waste researching files and testing them. It's amazing how quickly a company can trash their reputation.

What are machinists using these days?? The new Nicholsons are absolutely useless for any kind of metal work. I have a lot of machinist friends...I should ask them what they're using.

[george wilson]

old K&F files were perfectly good. I didn't know they were still made. And,if they are,I'd carefully see where they are made. Could well be another defunct old American name bought out by the Chinese.

Several years ago,I bought a Simmonds "super shear" type file from Travers Supply. It was o.k.,but I don't know where it was made. I think David or someone said they were made in India.

[John Coloccia]

old K&F files were perfectly good. I didn't know they were still made. And,if they are,I'd carefully see where they are made. Could well be another defunct old American name bought out by the Chinese.

Several years ago,I bought a Simmonds "super shear" type file from Travers Supply. It was o.k.,but I don't know where it was made. I think David or someone said they were made in India.

That sounds vaguely familiar, George. Now that you mention it I remember hearing that the Indian Simonds where still very nice.

[Jacob Reverb]

Don't they know how to harden steel in other counties? Seems like fairly low-level technology...

[Bill White]

You guys got me to thinkin' (Dang! That hurts.) Went to the file stash and found that most were USA Nicks, and some USA "Black-something...not Decker).
They are now soakin' in the vinegar 'cause they are kinda dull.
Thanks for makin' me come alive.
Bill

[Zach Dillinger]

Don't they know how to harden steel in other counties? Seems like fairly low-level technology...

Oh, they know perfectly well. It is cheaper to do it incorrectly, and the manufacturer who offshores this work to Mexico figures the average consumer will never know anything is wrong with the file.

[Federico Mena Quintero]

Something I posted in the "Hand file" thread, but maybe George didn't see it...

Months ago, when I saw your original thread I tried browsing a little to find a way to locate the Nicholson / Cooper factory in Mexico. I lost the link, but I *think* I did find it.

George, if you were to send them a letter, what would it say? I could translate it into Spanish and try to make some phone calls here. Can't hurt to ask. I'd like to give them some technical details - you found the hard metal core? any ideas on what went wrong? Did it decarburize?

(Metalworkers around here also complain about the dismal quality of new files...)

[Joel Moskowitz]

Oh, they know perfectly well. It is cheaper to do it incorrectly, and the manufacturer who offshores this work to Mexico figures the average consumer will never know anything is wrong with the file.

They don't time and time again it has been my experience that companies, large ones especially don't actually understand why theire products are so so in the first place. They don't understand that Joey, who just retired would count to seven in his head before quenching some hot steel, or that the thermostat on the 50 year furnace has been out 6 degrees since the 1950's. Then when the factory gets up and moved to some third world country - after all, just because the company has been making a profit off of some file for a century - doesn't mean anyone pays attention to it, all this knowledge gets lost. And since the files look the same, and nobody actually tests them, they get shipped and when they don't sell "lack of demand" is blamed. Also if you are afraid to raise your prices to keep pace with inflation than you will make bad products. Most of the cost of making a file is in the machinery, the steel, and the energy used to form and harden it. if the labor savings from moving production is more than a few pennies you are doing something wrong.

[Joe Bailey]

Federico -
I like your style - I'm just writing to say "Bravo!" for trying to get something done by going to the source.

[Gary Herrmann]

New K&Fs are made offshore. Don't recall when. The vintage ones are good. As are Johnson, Heller and others.

[george wilson]

Fredrico,the file maker is somehow decarborizing the files' skin. I'm not sure how they are doing that,but that is what is wrong. Then,they are apparently not testing the files to make sure they are hard,or not testing enough of them.

I have only tested the one box of 12 triangular files,and have not tested their Mexican 8" mill files. I ought to go ahead and buy one to test. It could be that SOME of their files are o.k.,and some are not. Testing a bunch of them would start to get expensive for me,if the Cooper Group doesn't care about their files or my findings. It could be pointless.

I would go down there for free if they would pay my way and expenses to get the files back on track.

[Ron Bontz]

The reason I asked is I came across 4+boxes of older K&Fs 7xx and 5x. I think I may buy them, but what I was really looking for are the smaller sizes. I have been looking in old hardware stores when I come across them. And the search continues.

[John Coloccia]

Fredrico,the file maker is somehow decarborizing the files' skin. I'm not sure how they are doing that,but that is what is wrong. Then,they are apparently not testing the files to make sure they are hard,or not testing enough of them.

I have only tested the one box of 12 triangular files,and have not tested their Mexican 8" mill files. I ought to go ahead and buy one to test. It could be that SOME of their files are o.k.,and some are not. Testing a bunch of them would start to get expensive for me,if the Cooper Group doesn't care about their files or my findings. It could be pointless.

I would go down there for free if they would pay my way and expenses to get the files back on track.

I just bought a small Nicholson double cut bastard when I modified my drill press (I didn't want to waste any of my nice files on that). I'll send it to you, George. When you're done, just send it back. Send me your address again so I don't have to dig it out of one of my old PM files :)

[george wilson]

John,the cost of mailing would make it cheaper and less trouble to just buy one. Thank you anyway. I have really enjoyed the Japanese files you sent.

[Federico Mena Quintero]

I have only tested the one box of 12 triangular files,and have not tested their Mexican 8" mill files. I ought to go ahead and buy one to test. It could be that SOME of their files are o.k.,and some are not.

OK. Does the box of triangular files have any details such as model / lot numbers? I'd like to give them as much detail as possible. Don't want to sound like a generic "your files suck" complaint :)

There are a few file brands available here - Nicholson, Truper, Bellota. The Truper ones seem as soft as Nicholsons. I haven't used a Bellota file. If you tell me how to test one, I'll do the test and send similar letters to those makers.

Something tells me that there are only a few large-scale makers of files (there is one in Córdoba, Veracruz, not too far from where I live) and they are all getting the same things wrong, or they just rebrand a single maker's files.

[george wilson]

I filed the very front corner of the Mexican Nicholson file with an OLD USA made 8" Nicholson mill file. I'll have to go get the package and give you the particulars about model number,etc.

[Gary Viggers]

I just picked up a made in U.S.A. 12" Nicholson Half Round Bastard Rasp (19460, but in a box marked 19394, which is the 8") at Crown City Hardware in Pasadena for $14. There were several more in the box; the guy who rang me up said they've been there since he started working there (17 years ago).