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View Full Version : From the town of Bedrock.



Chris Thompson
04-06-2005, 10:24 AM
OK, I guess I'll jump in with both feet and ask the difficult question.

I've been bottom feeding rust off the auction site of dooooooom for a while now and I've got some pretty good deals. I've got a stack of #4s and #5s, most for $10-15. I've got a 6C for $20. I got an Ohio Tool #7 in spectacular shape for $25. And the one where I let the auction mentality get the best of me and blew right past my budget, I got a Type 4 Prelateral #8 that is in shockingly good condition. Of course, it cost me $50.

I'm still in acquisition mode, and obsessively search online (mostly because my weekends are so busy, I have no time for rust shops.) daily. But I've passed on a few regular 4s and 5s because, well, I've got them and I'd rather spend the money at this early stage acquiring better tools. Quality over quantity. (Quantity comes later :)

So, I have two and a half questions I submit to the creek.

1) Are Bedrock planes really so much better than plain bailey patterns to justify the extra cost that the collectors have driven into the market?

2) Are the Keen Kutter K series planes, which are ostensibly off the same foundry lines as the bedrocks, really just as good for 1/3 the price?

2.5) Any other brands like KK that are just rebranded bedrocks?

Right now on that nameless site a search of the auctions completed over the last few weeks show, say, a #604 averaging $150. I could get ten or twelve regular #4s for that.

I realize the geometry of the bedrock, with the huge bedding surface for the frog, and the fact that said frog reaches down to the sole, make for a more stable, less chatter prone plane. But, man, I have a problem with that price.

A K4C, however, just closed for $41. So did a K5C. I actually got sniped at the last second on a K8 at $47, whereas a 608 just sold for $216.

Should I be buying less often and saving up for Bedrock rust, or is it just not worth the outlay? Garret Hack spends a page in his Handplanes book gushing over Bedrocks, and mentions that a 605, I believe, is one of his primary users.

So, what's the scoop?

Roger Bell
04-06-2005, 12:01 PM
Whether owning a $200 Bedrock is "worth" the extra money for somewhat improved degree performance is a matter of argument, if performance alone is the only factor being considered. It is also a subjective value judgment. I own and use several tuned Bedrocks and, IMO, I don't think their performance is really THAT much better than the standard tuned Bailey....especially the earlier round-sides, which lack the adjustment refinements of the later flat-sides.

Be that as it may, you will still have a $200 Bedrock that you can generally sell for at least what you paid for it. I don't think that the relative value of the Bedrocks vs Baileys will change any time soon. So if you don't mind, at least for a while, tying up a little extra cash into a Bedrock, why not try one and come to your own opinion?

The Vaughan and Bushnell's also have a similar frog to the Bedrock and are generally underpriced considering their features. I would recommend these for your consideration.

Dan Moening
04-06-2005, 12:36 PM
Chris,
In my limited handplane experience I would recommend that you simply become accustomed to using your existing line of planes before venturing off into another realm. Personally I'm experiencing different levels of performance from 3 Stanley #4s...each as closely fettled as the next as near as I can tell.
With more experience I discover why.

How will you know if the Bedrocks, etc are any better without a baseline to compare with?

Roger,
Please remove the last line from your post...its the last great secret and I'd like to keep it that way a bit longer. :D

Roy Wall
04-06-2005, 2:23 PM
Chris,

Here are my thoughts:

question #1) probably not.......a great fettling & sharp blade are a tremendous equallizer
"""""""" #2) I have heard also the KK are a great value & comparable to Bedrocks
#3) Agree with Roger B. on the V&B's........

MAIN THOUGHT - I'd rather have one GOOD tool than 5 or 10 (or more) so-so ones..

Final thought: It truly matters what a tool is worth to you - because we all have a million different opinions on that.

You have to consider your time, attitude, & supplies to fix old planes up. Some guys are LN guys, some are Bailey, some are Infill......prices all over the map. Some like to collect certain types, brands, it's all good really - I love the variety we all have in tools.

John Keeling
04-06-2005, 2:38 PM
KeenKutter K# same as Bedrock, KK# is not! K# same as old round sided Bedrocks [types 1-4, I think] so doesn't have the full adjustment that the Bedrock flat sided models have.
Winchester W#, same as Bedrock [again I think its the old type 1-4]
Think V&B is too.

Garrett Hack's Bedrock 605 has a Holtey iron which I suspect improves it from a standard 605, probably doubles the price too...

Ian Kirby doesn't seem to rate them as anything special, and seems to favour his Bailey 4 1/2, maybe because they weren't as prevelant in the UK where he was trained [?].

John

Stan Thigpen
04-06-2005, 3:25 PM
Is the Winchester just a re-badged Stanley plane?

John Longwitz
04-06-2005, 6:01 PM
Is the Winchester just a re-badged Stanley plane?

Winchesters were made by both Stanley and Sargent (Sargents have 4 digit # behind frog starting with 30..). At least that's for the standard line. Not sure about the Bedrock comparable ones.