Mortice for tote

[Matthew N. Masail]

Just got the tote into rough shape, I have never done this before... actually I've never really chopped any mortise before, so any tips, especially on getting clean lines, would be greatly appreciated.

Does the tenon stay the complete width of the tote?
how deep should it be?

does the locations in the picture look ok?, I mean, is it better to leave just enough room to tap the blade or should it be easily accessible.

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[David Weaver]

Right about where you have it in the picture is a good spot.

Make your mortise to the depth of the tenon you make on your handle. I've probably seen them anywhere between half and inch and 3/4ths of an inch.

If your tenon is good and straight, mark the mortise off the end of the tenon and cut it slowly making sure to stay inside the line. You can take a chisel and keep it just inside the line and define a line with a firm mallet strike (the same way you'd relieve a little bit of material in a dado) so nothing tears out around the mortise on the surface. chop the mortise out then with the chisel, making sure to get it to depth and try to keep it tight to the tenon on the handle so that you get a good tight handle, or sooner or later the joint will fail (once in a while in an old plane, they do, anyway).

[David Posey]

I have limited experience with these, but I did have an old one come off on a try plane. The tenon was the full width of the tote. The mortise was also undercut at the front and the tenon part of the tote was made to match, and there was also a very tight fit lengthwise so that it was impossible for the tote to come out of the mortise with the plane moving forward. The mortise had to be apporached at just the right angle to get the tote to fit. It needed a little glue to stabilize it, but after that small repair it still works quite well.

[Jack Curtis]

I have limited experience with these, but I did have an old one come off on a try plane. The tenon was the full width of the tote. The mortise was also undercut at the front and the tenon part of the tote was made to match, and there was also a very tight fit lengthwise so that it was impossible for the tote to come out of the mortise with the plane moving forward. The mortise had to be apporached at just the right angle to get the tote to fit. It needed a little glue to stabilize it, but after that small repair it still works quite well.

Same with the two or three old western jointers I've pulled apart, the m&t are designed to allow zero lift when pushing, almost more like sliding dovetails than plain old m&t.

[george wilson]

Matthew,you got the handle where it is grasped very good,but the front end is wrong. Look at the pictures of my wooden jointer that I posted for you.

As for the mortise,it is 3/4" deep,but the rear end and the front end is slanted forwards a few degrees. The handle should also slant to fit the mortise. This design keeps the handle from wanting to come loose when forward pressure is applied to it,as when you are pushing the plane. The handle can only be removed by pulling it backwards,except that when you glue it in,it won't come out at all. I hope this is clear.

Make sure that your handle isn't so close to the plane iron that it gets in the way when you are inserting the iron. Your location looks good.

The front end of the handle on my jointer is in the form of an "S" curve if you look at it. From what you've done here,I think you might have looked only at the drawing for the handle I made for an infill plane,which doesn't have the proper front end for a regular wooden plane. You did an excellent job of getting the rest of the contours correct,though.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Ohh! it's for a infill..... :( your right, I went with the drawing and when I put it on the plane I felt like it needed metarial in the front.. than I looked at the pic's from the jointer (I printed them) and saw my mistake.... is there anything
you suggest I can do to it besides making a new one? it doesn’t look too bad when level with the plane.... thanks for the confermation! I found that when shaping it that there was an instinct to create the "correct" curve that flowed. of course I would
be lost without the drawing.

The tote is clear, can I do this with regular bench chisels or should I opt for a mortise chisel, which mean waiting a while most likely.

[Jim Matthews]

If authenticity is important, you can make changes to the shape.
If it feels good, and this is a user - let it be.

I would suggest you make a pocket mortice and cross pin through the body.
If you pre-drill the cross pins, they'll help you locate the handle in the mortice
as you glue up. Ron Hock sets up his handplane kits this way, and the technique is dead simple.
You could do that with brass or your hardest available dowel.

Set in with glue (which is probably sufficient) and cross pin before that has dried.
The idea is merely to counteract whatever lifting motion you would exert.

I think this is overkill. An alternative is to have wedges in the bottom to exert fore and aft pressure against the mortice ends.
This way, you could drill out a broken handle to make a replacement. The wedges should NOT force the base to the sides where the center is thinnest.

My guess is that this thing needs only a good mortice and tenon joint with basic glue and it will outlast your lifetime (may it be a long one).

When I'm handling my big jointer - the back end is heavier, so if it lifts, the front tilts upward.
The only way the handle can be damaged is if I run it into something immobile.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks Jim! authenticity is not overly important for this one, or for me in general. It's my first try plane, second bench plane overall so it's going to get used (-: it's first job is helping me turn my plywood table into something more substantial

I like the cross pin idea, but it would have to be part of an aesthetic design for me to use it. I think this plane still has the elegance of a traditional one (with the tote ending up as a jock for those in the know I can imagine),
so I'm going to to do it the traditional way.

I'm considering drilling a hole for a dowel almost the length of the handle in order to strengthen the short grain, when I sawed off the ends to square the block up after gluing I noticed it's weakness in the sawed slice.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Matthew

The position of the tote looks good. The further back you go, the more "power". However, too far back and the plane feel feel rudderless. Close to the blade creates more control - with room left for a hammer to adjust the blade.

Here is the mortice for a jack plane (as George noted, 3/4" deep) ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaJackPlane_html_63e6b99b.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaJackPlane_html_586e127f.jpg

The positioning on this longer jointer saw the tote move closer to the blade ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/CoopersJointer_html_781967ee.jpg

The mortice for this one extended into the section behind the bed for the blade.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/CoopersJointer_html_m639901bb.jpg

The tenon for all the totes ran almost the full length of the underside - just a 1/8" shoulder left to make the fit look clean.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

Matthew,the reason I posted 2 planes was so you'd have both the drawing and the wooden jointer to see the same handle on,but with the appropriate front end. Sorry I confused you. If the plane is important to you,I'd make a new handle. Becoming a GOOD craftsman means being willing to go back and re do something to get it right. I've done it many,many times over the years. It's up to you. I hate to see something staring me in the face forever knowing it isn't right,and wishing I'd had the patience to do it correctly. Good luck.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Hi George, thanks, it's fine, I just assumed that there were many possible shapes... :o I think I will do it over, the more I look at it the more it bugs me like you said. this time I think I'll use solid teak, I'm not sure how much I like the laminated one.

Thanks Derek! I never really knew to appreciate a nice tote before this... and those are nice! I'll order a mortice chisel or two, I'm starting to think they are essential.

[Kees Heiden]

What I see often overhere in The Netherlands is another attachment. The tote is often offset to the right and then drawbored from the right side. The pins are not going all the way through the stock to the left side. This method is the successor of the older jointer planes. These had the tote all the way on the edge on the right hand side and usually been attached with two dovetails front and back.

[george wilson]

Yes,I noted those type of handle positions on planes excavated from the Mary Rose,Henry XIII's ship. They were also short. We think the handles were done that way to make the worker catch them in the joint of the thumb,rather than the palm,preventing carpal tunnel.

[Kees Heiden]

One of these jointers sold for 750 euro lately.

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I think I can see one of the dovetail joints.
It would be right up your alley to make a reproduction of one of these Dutch jointers, George!

Some other pictures on this page:
http://www.openluchtmuseum.nl/index.php?pid=372&sub=22