Glass etching problems... suggestions?

[Brent Franker]

Hello!

I'm pretty new to the lasering thing. I have an Epilog 36 EXT 75watt that I bought used. I'm unsure if I have a laser problem or settings problem but I've tried a number of settings and not getting the "crisp" results I'm expecting. I'm using the Epilog rotary tool.

The pics below show some of the more pronounced/worse examples but figured it might help determine if I have a hardware issue or if I just haven't figured out the right settings yet. This glass was made with the Epilog recommend settings for 400dpi glass etching. I have not really used my laser much at all but do know that the factory settings for cutting 3/8" acrylic result in a cut only about 1/2 way through. I have aligned the laser but do know the mirrors are not in the best shape.

Any ideas what might be causing the blurry/fuzzy edges and even the lasered part to not be uniform? I've seen these before to where they look like a nice frosted glass in the etched part... mine does not :)

http://www.extreme-z.com/gallery/album07/P1000398_resize?full=1
http://www.extreme-z.com/gallery/album07/P1000397_resize?full=1
http://www.extreme-z.com/gallery/album07/P1000396_resize?full=1
http://www.extreme-z.com/gallery/album07/P1000395_resize?full=1

Thanks in advance for any ideas on how to fix this :D

[Scott Shepherd]

Change the "black" to 80% black or 85% black (maybe even sneak up to 90%), but start at 80% and see how you like that.

[Gary Hair]

That's about what lasered glass looks like. The only way to get frosted glass is sandcarving.

Gary

[Steve Busey]

That's a bizarre effect. Have you done a good alignment since you got the laser? Cleaned the optics?

[Michael Hunter]

Do you get the fuzzies on other materials or is it just on the glass and with the rotary?

If you are getting fuzzies on everything, first check the tension of the X-axis belt and make sure that the drive "cog" and rollers are clean.
Also check that the mirror/lens assembly is not loose on the carriage.

If there is still a problem, then it might be worth checking the "Laser Match" setting, to make sure that the dots are correctly lining up in the vertical direction.

To test, you need a piece of black anodised aluminium or similar fairly sensitive material.
Run a 100% black square at 75 dpi.
Do all the (separate) dots line up? If not, the Laser Match adjustment (in the "service" menu)will let you sort this.

If the first dot in each row is very faint or missing, but all the other dots line up, then I think that this is a problem related to tube ageing and potential failure.

This test will also show up any problems with the carriage bearings : unequal spacing between the rows = shot bearing.

[Brent Franker]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys! I will try the recommendations and see what happens.

I did try to laser some gravoply with the same results... not good and blurry edges. I'm sure that's not a good sign either and fixing this is looking like it could cost me some $$$ Ugh. I should have been more prepared in knowing what I was buying before buying the laser. The guy used it every day in a busy shop... he could have just wore it out and that is why he sold it.

[Ross Moshinsky]

I've actually recently found a way to laser glass and crystal to a near sandblasting quality. Is it sandblasting? Absolutely not but it looks frosted and more than acceptable. We run ours at 800dpi, 100pwr, and I think 30 speed. All the text is 100% black. I use white newspaper packing material wet down. No chipping. No issues. Good frost. It's a lot faster than sandblasting too.

As for your pictures, you have two issues. Your biggest issue is something is wrong with your machine. The second issue is you're trying to engrave far too much area. I don't think you're ever going to like the results doing the text like that. Laser the text and not the whole outside of the glass. That's the only way it's going to look half way decent.

[Mike Null]

I think Michael is on the right track. Your best bet is to give Epilog tech support a call. In the meantime cut your speed and power settings by one half and run several tests on various materials.

[Bill Cunningham]

When everything comes together, the laser does a pretty good job!

[Rich Harman]

It looks to me like the left-to-right and the right-to-left passes are a bit off from each other. The Chinese lasers have a way to adjust this, don't know about Epilog...

[Rodne Gold]

Are you doing this on a rotary attachment? Try it on flat glass. Could be the rotary isn't working 100%

[Brent Franker]

When everything comes together, the laser does a pretty good job!

Wow, that is impressive! Very nice!

[Brent Franker]

Are you doing this on a rotary attachment? Try it on flat glass. Could be the rotary isn't working 100%

Yes, using the Epilog rotary attachment. But, I did try to engrave on on flat gravoply plastic with similar results. Granted, this plastic I was testing on is made for actual engraving with a rotary knife (don't know the exact terminology LOL) but I have read where people laser this same stuff (not specifically designed for lasering) with decent results. Maybe I misread? But, anyway, this shows similar "fuzzy" edges. The results I got were not so good you could say :) The top line is with the Epilog factory recommended settings but since those barely touched the color, I kept increasing the power. I never really got a nice crisp white lettering and instead I got similar results as compared to the glass etching I think...

http://www.extreme-z.com/gallery/album07/P1000409_resize?full=1

On some of the last lines I was at a pretty high power and even did it two or three times. The camera is not out of focus... it actually looks like that where there is a "halo" around the lettering.

http://www.extreme-z.com/gallery/album07/P1000410_resize?full=1

[Brent Franker]

It looks to me like the left-to-right and the right-to-left passes are a bit off from each other. The Chinese lasers have a way to adjust this, don't know about Epilog...

It definitely does seem like something is for sure off a bit. The vector outlining I've done seems to line up good and produces a crisp small, thin line but the rastor stuff I've tried has not worked out so well.

[Brent Franker]

I think Michael is on the right track. Your best bet is to give Epilog tech support a call. In the meantime cut your speed and power settings by one half and run several tests on various materials.

I have some time off coming up at the end of the week. I'll try doing some more experimenting with different settings.


I've actually recently found a way to laser glass and crystal to a near sandblasting quality. Is it sandblasting? Absolutely not but it looks frosted and more than acceptable. We run ours at 800dpi, 100pwr, and I think 30 speed. All the text is 100% black. I use white newspaper packing material wet down. No chipping. No issues. Good frost. It's a lot faster than sandblasting too.

As for your pictures, you have two issues. Your biggest issue is something is wrong with your machine. The second issue is you're trying to engrave far too much area. I don't think you're ever going to like the results doing the text like that. Laser the text and not the whole outside of the glass. That's the only way it's going to look half way decent.

Something wrong with the machine... I was afraid of that :(

I was engraving the glasses with just the text. I did the engraving like that to try and really show the problem because I wasn't sure how well I could get the lettering to just show up in pictures :) I do understand what you are saying but it seems like, looking at other's work, that I should be able to still do this though with far better results... not perfect probably but better than I'm getting! :)



Do you get the fuzzies on other materials or is it just on the glass and with the rotary?

If you are getting fuzzies on everything, first check the tension of the X-axis belt and make sure that the drive "cog" and rollers are clean.
Also check that the mirror/lens assembly is not loose on the carriage.

If there is still a problem, then it might be worth checking the "Laser Match" setting, to make sure that the dots are correctly lining up in the vertical direction.

To test, you need a piece of black anodised aluminium or similar fairly sensitive material.
Run a 100% black square at 75 dpi.
Do all the (separate) dots line up? If not, the Laser Match adjustment (in the "service" menu)will let you sort this.

If the first dot in each row is very faint or missing, but all the other dots line up, then I think that this is a problem related to tube ageing and potential failure.

This test will also show up any problems with the carriage bearings : unequal spacing between the rows = shot bearing.

Yes, I was getting the fuzzy edges with other materials. I just posted links to some engraved plastic I was trying. I also just got in some plastic that is designed for lasering so will give that a shot but I'm not confident :(

I will check those other items you mention. It does seem like it might actually be a bit worse AFTER I did the alignment than before which could be a mirror issue I suppose. Also, my mirrors are not in the best shape... you can see visible defects on them. The guy I bought the laser from was using it like this and said he had no problems. Hmm?


That's a bizarre effect. Have you done a good alignment since you got the laser? Cleaned the optics?

Yes and Yes. But, I do suppose that may be one of my problems too... I could have messed something up! LOL Even though the alignment shows to be much BETTER after my adjustments, I guess I could have done something wrong.


Thank you everyone for your suggestions! It may be that I just need to call tech support and have a rep come and check the machine out to see what I'm dealing with.

On a side note, I was reading here a few months ago (I work so much I don't get a chance to play around with the laser too much) and it sounded like I could buy new Chinese mirrors/optics for a fraction of the price of the Epilog replacements and the would work in my machine? I'm all about supporting USA companies but I do have $$$ limits I need to consider too and the prices I was seeing were like 25% of the Epilog pricing. I'd much rather try the cheaper Chinese optics and see if that fixes my problem rather than spend a ton from Epilog directly and then still have the same results. Was I on the right track with what I was reading and that there are options for purchasing optics/mirrors from places other than directly from Epilog??? Thanks!

[Mike Null]

The Gravoply you engraved was for mechanical engraving. It has a much thicker cap than laserable laminates therefore it will take many more passes to engrave..

Did you try cutting the speed and power on the glass?

[Martin Boekers]

You have a nice machine, I run two of those. Be careful because it's cheaper doesn't make it high quality.
Some times I find when I go the cheapest route it cost me more in time spent working with it. There are a handful
of laser optics and mirror manufacturers so you may find some thing good. Mirrors and lenses aren't too bad in pricing,
now tubes that's a whole 'nother story :) See if there is an Epilog rep in your area or maybe a trade show that they are
demonstrating at and have them run a test with your lens.

[Ernie Balch]

i just looked at the text you engraved, it seems very obvious that the right and left scans are not aligned. Try single direction scanning, that should look good and prove that your start of scan time delay is not set properly.

[Chuck Stone]

not familiar with the epilog, but scan time delay sound good :p
It looks like backlash. Could there be a mirror loose in the head? If so it
might 'bounce' at each end of the travel path. Not saying that's what this
is, just a thought.

[Rob Bosworth]

I think you have something in the drive train that is off. Epilogs usually use flats on the shafts of the drive motors and each one of the drive gears have two set screws to hold them in place. The drive gears are mounted on the shaft, then the set screws tighten down and hold the component to the shaft. If the set screws on the drive gear are just slightly off center of the flat on the shaft, you will see problems in your engraving. Remove the drive gear from the X axis motor, and re-set the gear on the shaft so that the set screws line up perfectly with the flats, and snug down the set screws. They do not need to be off flat by much to "rock" while engraving. My bet is it is a mechanical problem.

[Richard Rumancik]

Since you saw you are new to lasering I would suggest that you park the rotary for the time being and try to get this debugged on flat material. Either get some cheap flat glass to experiment on or get some laserable plastic. There are too many variables here so you need to remove some of them. You won't be able to prove very much trying to engrave on materioals meant for mechanical engraving.

I would suggest that you start with some simple text and graphics to save time. This is too large of a graphic to experiment with. You need to come up with a small test file that you can laser in a few minutes.

Also get a good magnifying glass or loupe so you can study what is going on. Once you have success with flat images and resolve any issues related to mechanical problems, driver settings, alignment, laser settings, lenses, CorelDraw, technique, etc. then you can add the rotary back.

[Glenn Freer]

When everything comes together, the laser does a pretty good job!

That is awesome Bill. Nice job.

[Bill Cunningham]

That is awesome Bill. Nice job.

Thanks... It's taken a lot of time, glass, and experimentation. But I can now get 'perfect' images on glass.. It's a combination of picture tweaking, material prep, and laser settings, and considered it proprietary..
Tall square candle vases for memorials, and to acknowledge a passed family member at a wedding or other function has been the primary use..

[Dee Gallo]

Thanks... It's taken a lot of time, glass, and experimentation. But I can now get 'perfect' images on glass.. It's a combination of picture tweaking, material prep, and laser settings, and considered it proprietary..
Tall square candle vases for memorials, and to acknowledge a passed family member at a wedding or other function has been the primary use..

Dang, Bill - you are definitely the master! It only proves that dedicating time, practice and skill is what you need to achieve perfect results. Those who think they can just copy, paste and press GO are kidding themselves.

cheers, dee