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Matt Meiser
06-25-2012, 12:56 PM
For years I've been using Motorcraft Semi-Synthetic 5W20 oil in our Ford vehicles--at first it was the only way to get the 5W20 oil Ford recommended. Always buy it at Walmart (pretty much the only reason I ever go to Walmart) since they are the lowest price for the same jug as everyone else. The price has steadily climbed and I was rather shocked today to pay almost $50 for 2 5qt jugs and a Motorcraft oil filter to restock the shelf at home. I was looking and now others have 5W20 oils to meet the Ford spec and most if not all are less expensive. I was in a hurry so I didn't stop to read labels and see who's were synthetic, semi-synthetic, and conventional. Its been so long since I bought anything else, I don't know what's good anymore? Years ago my dad used nothing but Pennzoil based on a friend who was a Ford engine engineer recommending and using that. But after mergers and acquisitions in the industry, I'm guessing a lot of the brands on the shelf are really the same oil in a different bottle?

Jim Koepke
06-25-2012, 1:13 PM
I'm guessing a lot of the brands on the shelf are really the same oil in a different bottle?

By listening to one of the guys at a local (chain) auto parts/supply store, my opinion is that you are justified in your guess.

He has told me that their store brand is just a rebrand of one of the majors. Also told me where the other chain in town was getting their rebranded oil.

When my work was part time and temping one of my assignments was with a Chevron testing lab. They tested the effects of different fuels and oils on engines.

Different engines have different effects on oil depending on operating temps. At the time, there was still a wide variation in engines. With more stringent pollution standards, that may have changed.

I use Pennzoil, so I am not knocking it, but it tended to produce more paraffin build up in engines that ran hotter, like an air cooled VW.

jtk

Greg Portland
06-25-2012, 2:33 PM
Matt, I've been able to match Walmart's oil sale prices on Amazon (when buying by the gallon).

Van Huskey
06-25-2012, 7:46 PM
I use nothing but Mobil 1 synthetic in any of my vehicle except the one that takes an oil formulated for exactly one engine in the world, so for it I have to use imported Castrol 10W60 TWS Synthetic. The M1 isn't cheap but I use extended drain periods and never had an issue, we even had a Lexus with the 3.0 engine known for sludging, routine changes at 12K (3 times recommended) sold with over 400K on the clock and no sludge.

M1 is NOT the best oil available, but it is as good as anything you can buy at Walmart or the average chain parts store and more than good enough.

Paul McGaha
06-25-2012, 7:49 PM
I usually buy Pennzoil, Get at Walmart, They were out the last time I bought oil so I bought some Valvoline. It's a lot different. The Valvoline was a lot lighter colored and thinner than the Pennzoil.

PHM

Mac McQuinn
06-25-2012, 7:58 PM
Also a Mobil 1 user for over 35 years with no issues and I've pulled engines apart for inspection and found they were very clean with no residue or damage. I buy 5w20 for my Tacoma at Walmart in the 5qt. jug for around $25-27. Oil is a pretty highly debated subject, try Bobistheoilguy.com if you want to really immerse yourself.
Mac

Van Huskey
06-25-2012, 8:00 PM
try Bobistheoilguy.com if you want to immerse yourself.
Mac

Or don't if you do want to get sucked into a vortex!

Bill Cunningham
06-25-2012, 9:10 PM
GM recommends Dexos Certified oil.. I'm sure you can use anything else, but if you have a warranty problem and your using some store 'house brand', you can probably expect a problem with your warranty repairs..

Jim Becker
06-25-2012, 9:28 PM
Mobil 1 has always been my favorite synthetic...

Dave Lehnert
06-26-2012, 1:35 AM
I have a few friends who are into restoring antique cars. Most they bring home in 5 gal buckets. They spend years restoring them.
I asked once what brand oil they used. They said the cheapest. often the store brand from the parts store. They are not much on all the advertising hype.

I read once, in a study of conventional motor oils, there was no difference in any major brand till 8,000 miles.

Why use synthetic oil other than longer run time between oil changes? I like to keep my oil changed at 3,000 miles just so it is cleaner and not that expensive to do. ($16.95 at the dealer)

Larry Edgerton
06-26-2012, 6:50 AM
I have seen our off road race truck come in with the temp gauge pegged at 350 degrees, so it was hotter than that. Won the race but as soon as it stopped it siezed.

When it cooled down it started and ran the next day. This was with Amsoil. If it had been Dino oil that motor would have been history. I am a firm believer in synthetics for anything that may see extreme conditions, like race trucks, cement mixers, pressure washers, lawn mowers......

My daily drivers I use Rotella T, but my new Ford calls for the same oil as Matts and Rotella does not have that weight. I have been breaking it in with Castrol GTX, but may switch to Amsoil and extend the oil changes from 7,500-10,000 miles.

I use Donaldson Filters for everthing they are available for and Wix or Amsoil for the rest. This is probably more important than the oil choice. I would not put a Fram on anything I own by the way. All filters are not created equal.

David Weaver
06-26-2012, 7:40 AM
I don't know what's what, I do know that having clean oil is the most important thing in the short term. I don't know how much damage the wrong grade can do, but I do know what dirt does. (I don't use the wrong grade, though, and not suggesting anyone would do it on purpose).

I have about 4 auto store chains near me, and live in the hills (i.e., the miles on the cars are tough and the combined mileage we get is always at the city range despite gentle driving due to stop lights at the bottom of hills and short steel hills to climb off of turns, etc). I always buy synthetic (one of the cars requires it due to a turbocharger), and I always change it around 5k miles or a year, whatever comes first. 5k here is probably like 8k flatland (when we stay with relatives, I can always get mileage above the highway rating on the car)
When a change is coming up, I check all of the flyers for the local stores and buy whatever full synthetic is on sale. I expect, like most folks I know, that the electrical stuff in the car, or the transmission or rust or some other such thing will be the demise of the car long before the engine refuses to go between changes without burning all of its oil.

Jerome Stanek
06-26-2012, 1:20 PM
I worked at the lubrazul head quarters and they had a display with different brands of oil and there is a major difference. They do not refine oil they are an oil additive company so there is no brand preferance. Quaker state was the worst.

Van Huskey
06-26-2012, 6:13 PM
I have a few friends who are into restoring antique cars. Most they bring home in 5 gal buckets. They spend years restoring them.
I asked once what brand oil they used. They said the cheapest. often the store brand from the parts store. They are not much on all the advertising hype.

I read once, in a study of conventional motor oils, there was no difference in any major brand till 8,000 miles.

Why use synthetic oil other than longer run time between oil changes? I like to keep my oil changed at 3,000 miles just so it is cleaner and not that expensive to do. ($16.95 at the dealer)

If you use short drain periods there isn't much difference, though that isn't very "green" or economical. If you do used oil analysis you will see some oils (usually more expensive) are still effective after long periods when the cheap oils no longer are affording good protection. All of this requires a quality filter, Fram is a name you should skip at all costs, even the generic Walmart filters are better. The other times you should use synthetic is when it is required for an engine (have those) or when when conditions dictate.

Randy Moore
06-26-2012, 6:21 PM
I worked at the lubrazul head quarters and they had a display with different brands of oil and there is a major difference. They do not refine oil they are an oil additive company so there is no brand preferance. Quaker state was the worst.

If Quaker State was the worst who was some of the better ones. I have mine changeg at my son's GM dealership and it is a Dodge '06 Dakota, with 161,000miles on it.

David Weaver
06-26-2012, 7:39 PM
I have heard that about quaker state before, too, but what I could never get anyone to commit to is whether or not it actually makes a difference in engine life.

The filters are hard to stay on top of, though there are a couple of sites online that cut them open and see how they're made and whether or not things like the pressure release valve (or whatever the high-flow valve is) seem like they're even functional.

There can be huge variation even between varieties in a brand (the fram extra guard doesn't look like a good filter, but the fram tough guard looks like a good filter).

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/opinions.html

Who makes what filter, what is identical to others, and how often it changes seems to be like the weather.

Chris Parks
06-26-2012, 9:43 PM
The only thing I have to add to all the above is if you have a diesel with a particulate filter in the exhaust then use the recommended oil or start saving for the repairs as they will cost you a lot of money.

Scott T Smith
06-27-2012, 9:27 AM
Van, here is a poll idea for you... I wonder how many SMC members have oil analysis performed?

David Weaver
06-27-2012, 10:03 AM
If there are any farmers, I'll bet they do. As a car owner who has sent cars down the road for many many reasons having nothing to do with engine wear, it would tell me interesting information, but at the same time, information that is unlikely to change why I get rid of a car or how early, so I've never bothered. I wouldn't know where to go up in performance, though, either after carefully picking filters and using full synthetic all the time.

Brian Elfert
06-27-2012, 10:48 AM
I use whatever oil the oil change place puts in. I simply follow the oil change schedule the manufacturer recommends. I only used synthetic oil when it was required for my VW Golf TDI. I don't do my own oil changes as a lot of the oil change places can do it for about the same cost as I can do it at home. I have a Dodge Caravan now that indicates when an oil change is required. I was surprised I only got 3,7000 miles on the first oil change, but spending a week driving a mile at a time at 10 MPH probably didn't help things. I don't do extended drain intervals because it would probably void the warranty if anything happened to the engine.

I have a motorhome that I do oil analysis on. A new engine would cost as much as a car to get a replacement. Hopefully, regular oil analysis will find a major problem before it kills the engine.

My brother bought a used car with about 55,000 miles on it in the 90s. The engine blew up at about 60,000 miles. The mechanic found lots of sludge in the engine and didn't think the oil had ever been changed by the previous owner.

Dennis Peacock
06-27-2012, 11:59 AM
I've been using Amsoil in everything I have. Been using it since March of 1985. I like the cooler running temps and slightly improved fule mileage.

Matt Meiser
06-27-2012, 12:37 PM
I'm not dissatisfied with the Motorcraft oil. Our 99 Taurus was still going strong other than some phantom sporadic electrical issue I couldn't track down at 120K when I traded it in. Our Focus had 127K when I traded it in and the only real reason we replaced it was that my wife wanted a nicer car. On those I did oil changes every 5K miles per Ford's recommendation. In my truck I just go by the oil change indicator which looks at driving conditions to determine proper oil change interval. But like Brian said, the price of changing it myself is getting up there pretty close to the oil change places, or even what some Ford dealers send out coupons for. I noticed that some of the other name brands 5qt jugs are as much as $6 cheaper, maybe more. The dealers are probably using the Motorcraft oil purchased by the drum, but oil change places are probably using other brands.

Paul McGaha
06-27-2012, 12:55 PM
At my work we have a pretty large fleet, several hundred vehicles, most of them Chevy's, most of them are 1 ton pickup trucks and vans or smaller.

This thread got me curious so I emailed the chief mechanic and asked him what the company uses. He said the last 24 years they have used Fram filters and Citgo Oil. The engines are lasting, some of them up to 400,000 miles. He said they've recently switched to NAPA filters and Gulf oil, said the jury was still out on that. Dont know why they made the switch but I would guess it would be he's getting the NAPA filters and the Gulf oil for less cost.

I dont know. I usually buy Fram filters and Pennzoil from Walmart. Just close by and pricing seems competitive but I dont watch it that close. Seems to me you can ususally trust Walmart to be competitive on their pricing.

PHM

Jeff Monson
06-27-2012, 5:11 PM
I'm not much of a semi-synthetic oil fan. With the consistently rising price of conventional oil, I see many more people swithing to Mobil 1 or other full synthetic oils. When you do the math synthetic oil makes alot of sense nowdays.

Van Huskey
06-27-2012, 5:25 PM
Van, here is a poll idea for you... I wonder how many SMC members have oil analysis performed?

My guess is a small number and with the small number of people who filter through the off topic forum I bet it would be a small sample size as well. They are free though (polls) I may put one up later.

FIY $25 for one from http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ They also don't charge up front for the collection kit.

It is good info especially for those of us that used extended drains and also to keep up with engine health but if you get rid of cars with under 100K on the clock it may be of little benefit re engine health.

Scott T Smith
06-27-2012, 5:29 PM
If there are any farmers, I'll bet they do. As a car owner who has sent cars down the road for many many reasons having nothing to do with engine wear, it would tell me interesting information, but at the same time, information that is unlikely to change why I get rid of a car or how early, so I've never bothered. I wouldn't know where to go up in performance, though, either after carefully picking filters and using full synthetic all the time.

Farmers, heavy equipment operators and fleets often use oil analysis to provide guidance on when to change the oil. The lubricants that I use cost over 1K per drum, and some of the equipment holds $400 - $500.00 worth of oil. You can bet that I don't want to change this until it is necessary.

Oil analysis will pay for themselves in these instances. Plus, they will provide you with a good idea of what is going on inside your engine, transmission, rear ends, etc.

Van Huskey
06-27-2012, 5:40 PM
Farmers, heavy equipment operators and fleets often use oil analysis to provide guidance on when to change the oil. .

Either that or the old guy that looks at it, rubs it, tastes it and proclaims "23 more hours and we change it".

Scott T Smith
06-27-2012, 7:59 PM
Either that or the old guy that looks at it, rubs it, tastes it and proclaims "23 more hours and we change it".



<grin> Yup, I've seen that too! It's amazing how accurate some of those old timer's predictions are too.

Jim Becker
06-29-2012, 5:45 PM
Why use synthetic oil other than longer run time between oil changes? I like to keep my oil changed at 3,000 miles just so it is cleaner and not that expensive to do. ($16.95 at the dealer)

Synthetics are best when used from the beginning on a vehicle...they don't break down as readily, are very "slick", and tend to help keep wear surfaces "less worn" over time--meaning both the engine and the oil stays cleaner. They are not the best idea for an older vehicle that used conventional oil for a long time since they are less viscous and will slink out of those worn areas quicker.

Changing one's oil at 3000 mile intervals was a great idea for a long time, but not really necessary with current engine technologies and quality lubricants. Many current vehicles have factory intervals between 5000 and 7500 miles and some even higher. And if you look at the oil that comes out when it's replaced, you'll be hard pressed to consider it "dirty". That said, if you feel most comfortable changing it that often, there's no reason other than cost since most, if not all, oil removed these days by firms is recycled. (And if you change your own, make arrangements to dispose it with someone who will recycle it, too)

Tom Stenzel
06-29-2012, 10:13 PM
In the Saturn S-series car like I have, the engines have a well deserved reputation for burning oil. The problem is the pistons run hot, the oil control rings get coked up and stick. In the twin cam version if you drive it "spiritedly", that can happen in 50K miles, and has happened to people I know that bought one.

Full synthetic resists breakdown better than conventional oils so I've used it in the Saturn for 15 years now just because if the sticking ring problem. It seems to be working, looks like the space frame holding the car together will rot out before the engine gives out.

I've been fairly brand unconscious. I've used Mobil 1, Havoline, Napa, Penzoil, even the Walmart juice if nothing else is on sale.

The transmission gets only Mobil 1 ATF and it has worked with no problems.

-Tom Stenzel

Brian Elfert
06-30-2012, 1:06 AM
This oil discussion is tame compared to what I see on some other forums I frequent. A lot of the vehicles have engines are supposed to use only 40 or 50 weight monograde oil with ash content of 1% or less. They'll argue all day over .85% ash content versus .9% ash content. I'm not aware of any engine that has failed because of .05% difference in ash content. The biggest issue is folks using 15W40 oil instead of 40 weight and wondering why they go through a lot of oil.

My motorhome uses a special ATF in the transmission that costs $10 a quart. It has to be changed every four years at a cost of about $400 for fluid and filters not including any labor costs.

Chris Barnett
07-02-2012, 7:53 PM
Wonder what they do with al that used motor oil that we take back to Walmart? After all the long molecular chains are broken, they wouldn't just filter, dewater and repackage and sell to us....would they?

Brian Elfert
07-02-2012, 7:58 PM
A lot of used oil is burned for heat. Some service garages get basically all their heat from drain oil. Valvoline is now selling an oil that is 50% recycled oil.

Gordon Eyre
07-02-2012, 8:27 PM
My Infinity now has 216,000 miles on it and it has never had to have oil added between changes. I change the oil every 3,000 miles and I have it done at the dealers.

Chris Barnett
07-03-2012, 10:16 AM
If one uses a high number (i.e. 40) viscosity single weight oil in engines designed for multi-weight, the engine will not have proper lubrication except perhaps only at a high temperature. The mechanical engineers who designed these engines did so with considertion of lubricity properties and film thickness of the lubricants on the mating surfaces (bearings, rings etc); these properties are variable with temperature, and specific to oil weight. These folks who designed the engines would say it's stupid to use a single high weight oil on a new to moderate aged engine. I doubt another mechanical engineer will say otherwise, unless it's for under the table money :D . Just wanting to state accurate info lest someone accept idea to use single high weight oil and ruin their engine; it's from the books.

Brian Elfert
07-03-2012, 12:57 PM
One should always follow the manufacturer's recommendation for weight of oil.

The specific case I was talking about is the Detroit two stroke diesel engine. It is supposed to use 40W monograde diesel oil. A fair number of two stroke owners are putting in 15W40 diesel oil instead of 40W oil because 40W diesel oil is hard to find. Using 15W40 oil in a Detroit two stroke can cause excessive oil use and reduce the life of the engine.