Any Experience with G1026 Shaper

[Michael W. Clark]

Any advice on a used (1990s) G1026 shaper? I just saw one on CL and I am eventually in the market to upgrade my router table. I'm thinking I could take my router (PC890) and use in the TS extension wing and put the shaper where the RT is for larger bits and other shaper operations.

Any input is appreciated. I'm not necessarily in a big hurry to make this upgrade, just want to take advantage of any "deals" I can find.

Mike

[Cary Falk]

I bought a G1026 a couple years ago. It works fine. The fence is nothing to write home about but it is functional.

[Michael W. Clark]

Thanks Cary,
Is their something different I should look for in the fence or is this design typical for all similar shapers? Would you buy it again? The price is about 1/4 of new, but it is older. It has the older Grizzly logo. BTW, it may be gone by the time I make up my mind, but just wanted to get some general information on what to look for since this would be my first shaper. If it's still there when I'm ready, then it was meant to be.

[Brian Backner]

I bought a 1026 new about twelve or thirteen years ago. I would agree the fence, at least at that time, was a POS and I promptly trashed it and built a replacement out of 3/4" Baltic birch ply faced with laminate. A big improvement I made was to have a dust collector port six inches in diameter - what a difference! Anyway, once that fence was tweaked I bet I've run several thousand feet of custom molding through it with no problems using a 1/2hp Grizzly stock feeder. Even using 5" diameter cutters on the 1" arbor, I never lacked for power (3hp motor) and the cut quality was almost always acceptable (needed minimal hand sanding prior to finishing).

If you do buy the thing, make sure you get a router bit adapter - adds quite a bit of flexibility. The only thing that would make it better would be to have a tilting spindle, but for those rate cases in which it was needed, I just built angled tables.

Unless the fit/finish/quality has gone south over the last decade, I would have no hesitation buying another one.

Brian
Taxachusetts

[Steve Griffin]

Mines a 2002, and it's been a great tool. No problems with the stock fence, but then I almost always use outboard fence. I'm curious what could possibly be a problem with the stock fence--mine works perfectly and easily.

I've had to replace the bearings twice, but I use this shaper hard and frequently.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?135238

Never used it with router bits--that's what a router table is for.

[Jeff Duncan]

Don't have any experience with the Grizzly, though FWIW most stock fences on that class shaper are junk IMHO. I wouldn't even bother with most of them with the one exception of the Delta upgraded X5 fence. I had that one and it was actually pretty decent. My Powermatic 27 on the other hand was garbage right out of the crate. I shimmed it and made due with it for several years, but it was just not well made.

Even on much more expensive machines you can get pretty crappy fences so don't go by that alone. As mentioned you can make your own for many operations, or alternatively you can buy a better one.

good luck,
JeffD

[Van Huskey]

Not really germane to the thread but maybe useful for someone looking at a new 1026, the Shop Fox has a better fence.

[Michael W. Clark]

Thanks for all the replies, the shaper already sold. I would pay more if necessary to get a good machine. This one looked very capable and clean.

There were several comments about the fences. What is the issue that makes them not work well?

[Jeff Duncan]

First off it comes down to what kind of work you do with your shaper and how you do it. So this is just my take on fences for what it's worth....

So what makes a bad fence....biggest thing is if the two faces are not in the same plane as each other. Similar principle to jointer tables, you need both faces to be in the same plane or your going to have problems. Now if they are out of whack, like they were on my Powermatic 27, you can shim them into place. Problem is you need to be vigilant about checking them as they can easily go back out of whack when adjusting them.

Second most important, (to me anyway), thing is ease and accuracy of adjustment. When your making cuts that remove the entire face of the piece going through you'll need to have one face set back from the other, (again think of the principle of a jointer). Ideally you want a fence that can make smooth easy adjustments in thousandths of an inch. You want as little play as possible, and you need them to lock back down easily and securely.

Third is having dust collection in mind. A fence with a dust port makes life easier for you.

Another feature many fences, though not all, come with is the ability to quickly move the faces in and out in relation to the cutter. I have one fence where they decided to make this a fine adjustment. I have yet to find a situation where a fine adjustment process would be helpful in this situation, it's actually a real hindrance to setting up quickly.

Now these are the main things to look for in a fence. Other factors which are less common in that class of fence but really nice to have...a fence with a 2 stage adjustment system. Loosen one of the fence securing bolts and turn the adjustment knob on the left fence to move it in and out, turn the knob on the right fence to move the entire fence in and out. Not sure if that makes sense the way I describe it, but trust me it's really, really nice to have!

In truth a fence can be as simple as a straight piece of plywood clamped to the table. I personally prefer the European style fences which have some nice features and allow a lot of fleibilty in setting up. Your best bet is to look at several makes and compare them to start getting a feel for the differences involved. You really have to use them to learn what you like and dislike, but just by visually comparing a few you'll likely start to see some differences;)

I hope this helps...
JeffD

[Peter Quinn]

On the fence issue, its a bit like hand planes to me. One problem is back lash, or "slop". You are making some fairly precise adjustments if you are using a split fence, so you need a very fine adjustment mechanism to tune it in, and you need minimal back lash. Unlike a jointer set up, shaper knives are often curved, and finding the apex of the low point on a knife with tight complex curves is not as easy as setting up straight knives. You have to sort of get close, then creep up to it or back from it to eliminate any snipe. I've used some PM 27 fences that are like driving an old 3-on -the -tree van, you can't tell what gear you are in, you can't tell if you are moving forward or back, just a sloppy mess. I haven't used the shaper in the OP, I have no experience with that. Seems others weren't thrilled? When you are making precise adjustments with a sloppy mechanism, it can get frustrating.

And Jeff was pretty clear on the other issue, parallelism. When the fence plates aren't parallel, nothing is easy. you wind up with snipe on either in or out feed, which really sucks for things like door parts where you may not be setting up to leave them long and cut off the ends. When machining door parts cut to exact lengths its nice to dial out the snipe. I've used sticky tabs, sand paper, shavings of wood, and hail mary's to get crappy fence plates parallel by shimming the back of the applied fences, but its a dark art at best. For some things it makes little difference, like long molding runs. But for fussy little parts of doors, a good fence is key. With a bad fence every day feels like your first, with a good fence you can get right down to business and find something else to screw up. At least thats my strategy!

[Michael W. Clark]

Thanks Jeff, can you refer me to an example of a fence with the features you are describing so I can compare?

I don't know a lot about shapers, so just trying to learn about them. I think I am going to keep my eye out for one. My intended use would be for raised panels and rails and stiles. I used my 890 on some raised panels recently and it did a good job, but it worked it very hard. I thought about getting a lift, adding a 3HP router, etc., but I could probably by a used (or maybe new) shaper for similar money and have that flexibility for other projects. I have a 20A 220V circuit near where the shaper would go and I also have 5hp 3ph that I could get over there as well. I don't intend for this to be a router vs. shaper thread, but if I knew some of the key features and "nice to haves" available it may help me make a better decision.

Any input is very much appreciated.

Mike

[Jeff Duncan]

Thanks Jeff, can you refer me to an example of a fence with the features you are describing so I can compare?

Any input is very much appreciated.

Mike

Well here's the thing, your fence is likely going to be determined by the shaper you buy. You'll be hard pressed to find all the features I listed unless you move up into an industrial European shaper which is a whole different animal! I just wanted to point out what to look for when comparing between the different machines you may look at.

In that class of machine I've owned and used 2....the Delta HD, and the Powermatic 27, and looked briefly at a Reliant before deciding it wasn't an option for me. The Powermatic was beefier than the standard Delta fence, but as Peter described better than I could....nothing to write home about;) The Delta standard fence is just so basic it's hardly worth having, (yes I know I'm a spoiled tool snob....I just can't help it....sorry:o). As I mentioned Delta came out with an upgraded fence, (I believe for the X5 series), at some point with better features. It has a much easier and more accurate adjustment system and works pretty well. It's easily identified by it's aluminum fence faces. I have not seen the JET or Grizzly fences firsthand to comment on them, but as they are copies of the Delta not sure their fences would be any better?

So here's my advice for you.....if your mostly going to use the shaper for the door parts as you describe....bypass the stock fence altogether! When running door profiles you can use an outboard fence. Which is simply a straight piece of wood clamped to the table. You position it so the feeder pushes the stock against the fence away from the cutter. This allows you to get perfect pieces as all the parts are going to come out the same width, and there's no snipe. For raised panels make up a custom fence to surround the cutter and allow you as much continuous fence support as possible.

Oh and FWIW this is how I run my door parts, even though I have arguably one of the best fences made in that time period! I do however do a lot of other types of work where I really do rely on the fence. But for cabinet door parts it's not an issue.

So besides the fence the most important thing on the shaper is that it runs smooth and true. Actually let me re-state that....this is much more important than the fence! If your spindle doesn't run true the fence is meaningless. If you have one, you'll want to bring a dial caliper with you when checking out a used shaper, the less runout the better. You want to check both the bottom and the top of the spindle...right below the threads. I don't know an exact number, but I'd guess anything much more than say .004 out I'd avoid. Ideally you want within .002. You also want a machine that is smooth as vibration can be transferred into the cut and leave a less than desirable finish.

Now as for comparing other features and "nice to haves" there's not going to be a lot of variety in that class of machine on the used market. Most of the fun stuff comes with bigger machines, things like brakes, spindle locks, and digital counters. Now some of the newer entries like the new Powermatic I believe have some additional features. I just don't have any experience with that shaper so....? Besides those, the only things I can think of off the top of my head would be reversing and multiple speeds. Reversing can be a bit of a hot topic...generally I don't think someone just starting out on a shaper needs reversing....but this really is it's own topic and I don't want to de-rail this thread. Multiple speeds are nice to have....generally speaking as you go to bigger diameter cutters you'll want slower speeds. For that size machine a bigger cutter would be your panel raise cutter.

Lastly your going to want/need a feeder. You really don't realize the true benefits of a shaper without a feeder. The ability to get perfect clean parts while simultaneously keeping hands away from harm is priceless.

good luck,
JeffD

[Michael W. Clark]

Thanks Jeff and others for your responses. I certainly have more information now than I did before. I'l continue looking, and who knows, I may have a project at the time that could warrent a better class of machine. I'll do some more reading and research as I get more serious about it.

Thanks again,
Mike

[Mark Burnette]

On the parallelism complaint--If the fence halves are hardwood can't you set them equal (and together) and make a pass over the jointer or a long belt sander to get them flat? Seems a lot easier & more lasting than shimming.

[Michael W. Clark]

I thought about that too Mark. I'm not sure what hardware would be in the way if you tried to do this. I imagine it would be a little awkward as well. If the mechanism is sloppy for adjustment, then you may fighting a loosing battle, based on the comments above.

[Mike Heidrick]

I was given a G1026 and 1/4hp feeder for some work i did for a buddy earlier in the year. I too hate the G1026 fence. I know I should have made my own fence but I really like the 43-812x fence from Delta. I used to own a Delta 43-460 shaper and it had the 43-812 fence. They are getting hard to find but acme tools being sold on amazon has some for $400 plus $37 shipping (66lbs from ND to IL). I know it is a lot but that's all I will have in this shaper sans a plug so I ordered it last night. I will document how the retro fit goes.

[Peter Quinn]

On the parallelism complaint--If the fence halves are hardwood can't you set them equal (and together) and make a pass over the jointer or a long belt sander to get them flat? Seems a lot easier & more lasting than shimming.

In theory, yes. But there is that pesky little break in the middle that always seems to make that not go quite perfect. And then there is that hard wood issue. Wood moves, and it doesn't have to move much to make a mess of things. I've had that issue on shapers with good fences too many times even with quarter sawn material. I prefer aluminum, I've used corian drops which worked quite nicely but don't go well over the jointer! I like baltic birch too, but face joint is out and sanding one face can cause it to warp. What you really want is a good shaper hood with parallel plates, and or some mechanism to adjust them should they get whacked out. Euro shapers handle this a lot better than the typical American two post fences a la Powermatic, delta, etc.

[Jeff Duncan]

Mike, I think that's pretty reasonable for that fence....just my opinion, but a decent quality fence makes using the shaper better all around! Now for comparisons sake an Aigner aftermarket fence will run you something in the neighborhood of $1500+/-. And I believe that's just the faces....not the whole assembly! Not quite comparing apples to apples, but just as a illustration if how quickly things get expensive on shapers!

I don't have an opinion on jointing the faces....not something I've personally tried so??? I also like baltic birch but prefer taking several thinner pieces and laminating them together in the vac press. I feel this gives a more stable product than say buying thicker to begin with. The stock faces that came with the Powermatic were like 5/8" thick??? Something that thin is going to move like a bugger. Try to use thicker stock for your faces if possible as it will remain more stable. I have one shaper set up with 1-1/2" thick maple faces and the other with 1-3/8" baltic birch. The third shaper usually has stuff bolted on so doesn't really have one particular set of faces.

JeffD

[Mike Heidrick]

When i lok at teh $$ I have in tooling $400 is cheap in the shaper world. I do like the fence so I am excited to have it on this shaper. The Laguna fence is crazy and has the spcer fingers like the aigner and the micro movement adjustments of the left face and the entire fence. I really like that too. May tray and add that to the Delta fence while I am at it.

[Michael W. Clark]

Any opinions on the Laguna 3HP and 4HP machines? I kind of like the 3HP model because I already have 220V, 20A service next to where it would go. There are also some other features about the 3HP model that look good too, drive arrangement, 4 speeds, built in casters, etc. I agree the fences look much different and more precise, and to Van's point, the Shop Fox fence looks different than the Grizzly. I just couldn't see the back of the Shop Fox fence, I'll try to find a manual.

Mike and Jeff, thank you for your input. I'm not a pro, just a "want to be serious woodworker":). The price range on the above machines would be about my limit and would probably want new for that money. If you have any other recommendations to look for, new or used, let me know. Thanks again for the help.

[Jeff Duncan]

I took a quick look at the machines you mentioned and they do offer some nice features that my Delta and Powermatic did not have at a very reasonable price. My concern would be how well they work and hold up b/c the machine is so low priced? It reminds me of my first table saw....a Ryobi BT3000 which had a bunch of nifty features which were great for me when I was starting out. It was kind of light weight though and over time things didn't hold up so well. I'm NOT saying this will be the case with the shapers you mention....just that's what they, well more specifically the fences, kind of reminded me of.

Now as for the hard details....to me the 3hp machine has the edge. It has 4" of spindle travel as well as 4" under the nut compared to 3" and 3-1/2" respectively. It has a 6-1/4" table opening compared to the 5-1/2", and although the motor is smaller it should be plenty of oomph for what your describing. Ideally you would be able to see them in person before buying to really be able to judge the quality beforehand....but that's probably not practical for most people.

At the end of the day you have to buy what fits within your budget and fills your needs. There's almost always going to be something better for more money, the trick is finding the best bang for your buck! For the work your saying you want to do I think any of the shapers in this class should do the trick. Some of the features will give one machine an edge over another, but arguably the more important differences will be in things you can't see in catalogs or online. Things like quality of construction, size of bearings, quality of machining etc. etc.. Now I don't have any firsthand experience with any of the shapers you'll be looking at, (Shop Fox, Grizzly, Jet, new Powermatic or Laguna), but from a quick glance online that 3hp Laguna looks like a pretty good contender, and possibly your best bet new?

Used is always where I look for machinery, I've found that people either are into used, or their not, there doesn't seem to be a lot of middle ground. There's no question that you can get a lot more bang for your buck buying used....you just have to be willing to deal with what used brings. You have to be able to look a machine over and judge its condition. You may have to deal with 3 phase which a lot of guys shy away from. You have to deal with picking up and moving it. And you need enough mechanical skill to do basic maintenance, alignment and repair. If you want to look at used machines that would be a better quality in the same size range I'd keep an eye open for MiniMax machines. I've seen several go over the last couple years for under $1k and they seem like a nice step up from the entry level crowd. Another advantage of used is you'll often get other stuff included in the price....for instance power feeders and sometimes shaper cutters. FWIW I have 3 industrial shapers in my shop, 2 Martins and a Linmac tilting. One Martin I completely rebuilt so I won't count that one, the other cost me $1200 and came with a feeder....plug and play. The Linmac was the most expensive purchase price of the 3 at $2k. However it came with a Univer feeder, a Euro block cutter head and box of knives, as well as a Freud door making set of cutters. So in terms of pure value....there's really no comparing. You just have to decide what works for you;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Michael W. Clark]

Thanks Jeff, that gives me a good idea of where I stand wrt budget, used vs new, and performance and features I would be interested in. I'll keep an eye out for used, but may go new if I catch a sale or something. The Grizzly went for $350 and "looked" clean, probably a good deal but was gone in less than a day.

[Van Huskey]

I am not really a shaper person but have been watching for a decent mid-range (mid-range hobby not mid-range production) in the used market but I have been kinda shopping them in case I decide I need one on the spur of the moment. The Laguna "pair" looked interesting to me and I hope they bring one or both of them to IWF in August so I can have a good look at them.

[Jeff Duncan]

I am not really a shaper person

Yet;)

Just give it time Van.....like the bandsaws, you buy one, then another comes along, and before you know it you'll be 'Van the shaper man':D

[Michael W. Clark]

I am not really a shaper person but have been watching for a decent mid-range (mid-range hobby not mid-range production) in the used market but I have been kinda shopping them in case I decide I need one on the spur of the moment. The Laguna "pair" looked interesting to me and I hope they bring one or both of them to IWF in August so I can have a good look at them.

Yes, I'm looking at it for hobby use too, not production use. I would be upgrading from a 2HP router and MDF laminant top, so most 3HP shapers are going to be a major improvement for me. I have a PC890 that would do very well in a good table for most bits. However, I have several projects coming up that I want to do raised panels on and the 890 struggles with the large bits. When you consider a 3HP router, lift, table, and fence, you are pretty close, if not even with, a new Grizzly 1026 or comparable Shop Fox. The Laguna 3HP looks really nice, I suspect it is new.

[Michael W. Clark]

Yet;)

Just give it time Van.....like the bandsaws, you buy one, then another comes along, and before you know it you'll be 'Van the shaper man':D

I haven't been posting here as long as you guys have, but I have noticed when Van hears of new machine or tool, it tends to grab his attention.:)

[Van Huskey]

Yet;)

Just give it time Van.....like the bandsaws, you buy one, then another comes along, and before you know it you'll be 'Van the shaper man':D

That actually is my fear. The reality is the shaper (or shapers) itself doesn't scare me it is the tooling. I have a compulsion to "collect" tooling, if Whiteside and Freud were to see my collection of router bits (many unused) they would probably put me on their Christmas card list. My local "pusher" has the full Whiteside catalog in stock BUT even worse they have several hundred sets of Freeborn cutters sitting in nice neat rows, just begging to suck my disposible income right out of my wallet... In the end I have several machines above a shaper on my "watch" list but my guess is something will pop up sooner or later.

[Peter Quinn]

I was given a G1026 and 1/4hp feeder for some work i did for a buddy earlier in the year. I too hate the G1026 fence. I know I should have made my own fence but I really like the 43-812x fence from Delta. I used to own a Delta 43-460 shaper and it had the 43-812 fence. They are getting hard to find but acme tools being sold on amazon has some for $400 plus $37 shipping (66lbs from ND to IL). I know it is a lot but that's all I will have in this shaper sans a plug so I ordered it last night. I will document how the retro fit goes.


I have that fence on my old delta, I added it because the old style stock delta fences were just not as nice. I agree it really is a very good fence. I've never been thrilled with the stepped aluminum fence plates, I wish they were flat. Some moldings wind up sinking into those reliefs, and it can make setting up a split fence with a straight edge hairy. Often I'll just attach a few pieces of 1/4" mdf to make them flat. Otherwise they nailed it with that one, and its way cheaper than anything else out there in that range. Powermatic will sell you the fence assembly from the 2700, but its over $1300 IIR, and Felder will sell you the "240" fence, but that is $780 for the hood, $540 for the fence plates, and I'm not sure that is micro adjustable from both sides? It is a very nice hood from what I recall. The accura hood for sale on ebay is a clone of the old old PM hood, and that is probably one of the worst I have used. I ordered one thinking it might work on the minimax, not even close. Way different in person than in pictures. Otherwise, who is there? I think parts pronto will sell you an SCMI hood assembly from a T-110 nova, but you may as well buy a new shaper at that point.

Is the new delta discontinuing that hood? I see no shapers of any kind on their site now. Not sure just what strategy they are pursuing, but I do question abandoning major tool categories.

[Van Huskey]

Is the new delta discontinuing that hood? I see no shapers of any kind on their site now. Not sure just what strategy they are pursuing, but I do question abandoning major tool categories.

I think they are just in the midst of redoing pretty much every machine in their line, even if it is just a model name and or simple cosmetics. I think by the end of the year they will have far more in their lineup than prior to their last sale and I assume 1 or 2 shapers.

[Mike Heidrick]

Well, the 43-812X arrived damaged, box looked to have been opened before, and someone wrote Do Not Inventory on the box. One of the Rams for the fence was broke when I opend the box. I called AcmeTools (who I bought it from on Amazon) and after getting to ECommerce Bryan, he was not at all happy to hear any of this had happened. He told me to keep the fence, use it for parts or whatever, and another Brand New 43-812x fence would be sent out right away. I was not happy with the fences condition being that it was sold as new, but man these guys in Ecommerce know how to use customer service to fix an issue!! I guess once the one arrives safe I will be fixing up the other as a backup. I guess updates in another week :)

[Van Huskey]

Well, the 43-812X arrived damaged, box looked to have been opened before, and someone wrote Do Not Inventory on the box. One of the Rams for the fence was broke when I opend the box. I called AcmeTools (who I bought it from on Amazon) and after getting to ECommerce Bryan, he was not at all happy to hear any of this had happened. He told me to keep the fence, use it for parts or whatever, and another Brand New 43-812x fence would be sent out right away. I was not happy with the fences condition being that it was sold as new, but man these guys in Ecommerce know how to use customer service to fix an issue!! I guess once the one arrives safe I will be fixing up the other as a backup. I guess updates in another week :)

Good to hear! Who ever picked the part just wasn't paying attention, I try to be understanding when things like this happen since that is the exact sort of mistake I would make.

[Mike Heidrick]

They picked a demo or something, reboxed it and sent it out. But it was not fully assembled as all the hardware bags are sealed. Looks like the parts to put thefence on - body, faces, and mounting rods were all that was "used". The DNI in marker was the clencher. They did say they open boxes to put in invoices and catalogs but the invoice was in the pubble on the front and no catalog was included. Fedex could have caused the damage but that was most likely because of reboxing it. Very thin plastic foam wrap was all that wrapped the parts.

Crossing fingers number two will be nice. Looks like the parts to fix #1 are $105 so far.