Hammer K3 Winner Shipping - alternatives?

[John Myers]

Hello,

I considering getting the Hammer K3 31x48 slider. I exchanged emails with a sales rep there and inquired about shipping from CA to Seattle, WA. I was quoted at shipping quote of more than $600. This seems pretty steep to me, but the rep told me that is what it costs. Does anyone know if there is a less expensive shipping alternative available? I really like the specs on this saw, and have read a lot of positive reviews here on SMC about Hammer.

I purchased a Laguna LT18 Bandsaw a few years ago - shipped from CA. If I remember right, it seems like the shipping was in the $300 range.

John

[Mike Heidrick]

Go get it yourself - rent a truck.

[Rick Fisher]

That seems steep to me .. Perhaps its gone up even more .. I remember 4 years ago ? Shipping my jointer from Laguna California to Vancouver Island was about $650.00

Shipping to Van-Island is expensive .. Typically Seattle would have been half of the bill .. Heck, its just up the I-5 ..

[Rick Fisher]

Hey ..

There is a Hammer / Felder dealer in Vancouver ... lol

Just saying ..

You could actually drive up .. check on currency exchange costs and duty ..

[John Myers]

Driving for me is not an option - I don't drive (limited eyesight).

Rick - Vancouver is not far from Seattle! Alas, I checked the Hammer/Canada website and it would be more expensive to get the saw from Vancouver even without the shipping charge (US dollars). I don't really mind paying for the shipping if it's the saw I want to get.

John

[Kevin Bourque]

$600 sounds about right. It weighs a lot

[Van Huskey]

I deal with shipping machines 2-3 times a year, that is about right currently for a 700+ pound machine with residential liftgate delivery. We are spoiled by seeing WMH machines ship free and Grizzly machines ship cheap.

[Mike Heidrick]

I resorted to getting a personal freight account myself and just pick up at my terminal when it will fit in my truck or on a trailer. I go there and they load with a fork truck and I unload with my tractor at the house. My freight dioscounts are much better than what a lot of dealers cost. Maybe try calling a local freight comapny yourself.

[John Myers]

Yes, the big Grizzly outlet in Bellinghame, WA is an hour and a half from where I live. My son picked up some maple benchtops that I purchased from them a year ago. He came back saying "Wow Dad, you should go take a look at what they have at Grizzly! They even have a big water fountain in their lobby! Lots of neat looking machines there. It's huge!" I have my eye on one of their 15" planers. I'm going to have him give me a ride up there sometime this summer to have a look around. I'm sure I'll probably wish I had a few thousand dollars in my pocket - LOL. It sounds like Grizzly has come a long ways over the years in terms of quality, and members here generally speak highly of their machines.

But I've pretty much made up my mind to get a Hammer K3. The other option I was looking at was the PCS Sawstop - which is a very awesome looking saw. But the slider on the K3 won me over. Not so much for cutting sheet material, but for crosscutting. Too bad I can't have both!

Mike - I was wondering if I could use a different freight outfit. But I'll probably just stick with what Hammer ships with and have the liftgate service.

[Van Huskey]

MOST of the small/medium sized shippers use several common carriers for the LTL shipping. They go online submit the "job" and get bids. I have seen freight rates rise a lot in the last couple of years, what cost $400 a couple of years ago is now near $600... I would personally not use a common carrier no set up through the equipment dealer since dealing with any damage may be more difficult.

PS you can always put a Excaliber sliding table on a PCS...

[John Myers]

Good points regarding shipping.

Van - I thought about that Excalibur option. What is the quality like for the Excalibur sliding table? If I went that route, I would prefer the smaller model slider.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I have one on my Sawstop. They're great. A little finicky to set up, and if you kick a leg on accident, it may throw it off. I would definitely prefer to have a real slider, but in my opinion, the sawstop brake adds safety to the cuts where you need it the most- rip cuts. While you can use the slider for a straight line rip, your next rip cut (on the other side of the work piece) will need to be done with the rip fence... that's the cut where people often lose their digits.

So for me, the best compromise on safety and functionality was to add the excalibur to the sawstop. It would be nice if SS made a true slider... that saw would be unbeatable from a safety perspective... rumor is that they're working on one, but we'll have to wait and see.

[Van Huskey]

It would be nice if SS made a true slider... that saw would be unbeatable from a safety perspective... rumor is that they're working on one, but we'll have to wait and see.

I plan to try to get some info at IWF about them. I have heard they are looking at the mid-price slider market which would make it a $15-18K slider. I think that would be a hard market to break into especially if the saw is made in Asia.

[Erik Loza]

Just to add a insider's insight to the discussion, $600 seems a bit on the high side to me (assuming residential/liftgate...) but to be fair, that might be the best they are able to do for you and actually not marking that up at all. A lot of the shipping cost really depends on the vendor's relationship with the freight companies they use. The more you ship, the better your rates. For example, I get a good freight discount from my shippers but I am also putting freight on trucks pretty much every day of the week. If a company was only calling for one truck a week, it would be easy to see how that could affect the rate they get and ergo, pass on to the customer. Also, and I have no idea if this is the case with the TS or not, but freight to a point in the Seattle area that is not an easily accessible neighborhood on the mainland, such as one of the islands via ferry, will really skew those numbers. For example, I recently sent a bandsaw to HI and the freight cost was nearly half the actual cost of the machine, itself.

In any event, freight is a hard cost which we (machinery manufacturers) unfortunately must pass on to the end-user and sometimes, it just costs what it costs and there is nothing any of us can do about that. Also, I have to agree with Van: "Free shipping" is one of the biggest gimmicks in the game. When I get a 70% discount off list and it still costs me, say, $300 to ship an MM16 from Atlanta to the northeast, think about what it costs one of those free-shipping places to move a machine completely across the country. Someone is still paying for that freight and someone is still making enough profit to be able to make that offer to anyone, so I always wonder to myself where the actual list price should have been in the first place, knowing all that.

Just my 2-cents and best of luck to the TS with his search.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Ralph Butts]

Try calling Mach1 for a quote. My company uses them and we get really great rates.

[Jeff Nicol]

One other option is to see if a local trucker is deadending where the saw is and see if he has room on the haul back. Most guys will give you a fairly good deal to help pay for their fuel or to just make some exra cash. I see guys on Craigslist looking for someone who needs something picked up. You would still need to get some good references and written gaurantees etc. I live in WI and not much to worry about here not many who's word and a handshake is good as gold.

Wish I had room and the $$ for a new saw and a much bigger shop, we have 2 new grandbabies due soon, one in November and one in January. That means Grandpa needs to get busy building cradles, cribs and things!


Good luck in what you figure out,

Jeff

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi John, I have a Hammer B3 Winner, wouldn't go back to a cabinet saw again.

I ordered mine with the scoring saw option, makes perfect cuts on melamine or veneered panels.

$600 sounds about right for freight on something of that size/weight............Regards, Rod.

[Will Blick]

Erik, what you are forgetting is..... these big makers can often ship from several locations, so their is less total miles product has to travel...they avg. the cost so those who happen to live further away don't pay a penalty. Also consider there ship volume is 10x greater than yours, so they negotiate better rates. It's remarkable what some of these makers like Grizz do, to keep final delivered pricing so low... Grizz is somewhat the Amazon.com of ww. Specialty machines makers usually do not have this luxury.

[Erik Loza]

No disagreement with any of that, Will. I guess the point I was trying to make is that regardless of what the vendor says, the customer is still paying for shipping and that I feel bad for the customer, for example, who thinks "free shipping" is a huge win when he lives in the same state as the warehouse, just like the guy who lives, say, three states away. I think we know who actually paid more for "free shipping" in that case.

Just my 2-cents,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA


Erik, what you are forgetting is..... these big makers can often ship from several locations, so their is less total miles product has to travel...they avg. the cost so those who happen to live further away don't pay a penalty. Also consider there ship volume is 10x greater than yours, so they negotiate better rates. It's remarkable what some of these makers like Grizz do, to keep final delivered pricing so low... Grizz is somewhat the Amazon.com of ww. Specialty machines makers usually do not have this luxury.

[Will Blick]

It's like buying an insurance policy. Luck of the draw who will benefit from it. From a consumer, or high end hobbyist, I think its a sensible strategy, just like Amazon does...for larger machine makers like yourself and Felder, of course this is not possible. Although if volume warrants it, two strategically placed shipping points in USA sure reduces the distance product has to travel. But with insufficient volume, the added warehouses can be cost prohibitive. When the price of a product is $100k, these shipping costs are a an Non-issue. When the product price is $3k, shipping cost becomes a bigger issue in this tight economy... so lots of variables.

[Erik Loza]

True, true...

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[mreza Salav]

I am in the middle of shipping a machine (crate) of about 650lbs about 900 kms away (residential to residential with lift gate at both ends), here in Canada.
The quotes (from at least 8-10 different places) have been from $216-$750, so there is a significant. I am not saying the cheapest is the best but it pays to shop around
and consider different options.

[Erik Loza]

Just to add to the above, here are two things I would take into consideration if shipping a machine, yourself:

1.) The least number of times your freight changes hands, such as getting subbed out from one carrier to the next, the higher the chance it will arrive safely. In other words, if it meant that I had to pay a little more to have the machine from Point-A directly to Point-B, I would prefer to do that over paying, say, a bit less and having go frm Point-A to Point-B with several stops in between.

2.) Believe it or not, the more visible the machine is through the crating, the better the chance it has to arrive without damage. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, since you would think that something like a solid wood crate would best protect a machine and in theory, it should, but the machine I have the least number for freight claims with is our MM16 bandsaw and that ships in as minimal a crate as you could imagine. What I suspect is that when the forklift operators see that it is a machine in there, they somehow take more care than just seeing "some giant box" of wood or OSB board. That assumption could be totally wrong but it is a fact that I ship more MM16's than any other product in our lineup and rarely, very rarely have a freight claim with any.

If I had to pack a used machine, for example, I would put it on as sturdy a pallet as possible, shrink wrap it, then just frame out an open cage of 2x4's to go over it. The actual pallet is a lot more critical than the container walls, in other words.

My experiences, anyway.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[mreza Salav]

Not that I am anywhere close to Erik in terms of experience but I agree with both his points (and especially the first one). I think most of damages are caused in loading/un-loading, so you want to minimize that.

[Kevin W Johnson]

I would personally not use a common carrier not set up through the equipment dealer since dealing with any damage may be more difficult.



+1

I'd let the carrier that normally handles the shipping from your place of purchase. Who ever they use, will want to maintain them as a shipping customer. So claims for damage will/should be easier to deal with, than say a one time shipment that you arrange with a different carrier.

[Van Huskey]

+1

I'd let the carrier that normally handles the shipping from your place of purchase. Who ever they use, will want to maintain them as a shipping customer. So claims for damage will/should be easier to deal with, than say a one time shipment that you arrange with a different carrier.

Further, if you are the consignee YOU will be the one dealing with the freight company for damage. Bottom line the less expensive a machine is the harder it is to make the numbers work but if it were me I would want to be on the leverage end of a damaged machine, not getting leveraged by a common carrier who has dealt with exactly one shipment with me as the consignee and knows it will probably be the only one.

[howard s hanger]

I think mine cost about $500 to ship from Delaware to Dallas. They dropped it right in the middle of my garage. Sweet!

[Rick Fisher]

I agree with Eric.

In my business, you can lean a sheet of glass against a rack and leave it for a week, it will be fine.. Wrap it in cardboard, someone will drive into it with a forklift.. People instinctual are careful around fragile products.. Writing fragile on the package means zip.. everything has fragile written on it ..

I imagine SCM moves a fantastic amount of LTL freight in a year.. I visited the Atlanta warehouse at the last woodworking show, they had a BBQ and open house .. Its an enormous facility filled with extremely expensive stuff.. pretty cool

[Jeff Monson]

I dont see $600.00 is all that high either. Buying a new machine, I'd want Felder to handle everything. If you start getting a 3rd party involved, it seems like an invitation for disaster. What are you going to save $100 to $200 max?? That too me is not worth the headache. You will not regret dealing with Felder from start to finish they are top notch.

[Todd Brewer]

I plan to try to get some info at IWF about them. I have heard they are looking at the mid-price slider market which would make it a $15-18K slider. I think that would be a hard market to break into especially if the saw is made in Asia.

$15 - 18K is mid price? Yikes! I guess I should grab that Hammer K3 Winner 79 x 48 at the bargain basement price of $4995! LOL

No offense Van, but I don't think $15-18K is mid priced, at least not to me. :)

[Van Huskey]

$15 - 18K is mid price? Yikes! I guess I should grab that Hammer K3 Winner 79 x 48 at the bargain basement price of $4995! LOL

No offense Van, but I don't think $15-18K is mid priced, at least not to me. :)

Reality and our individual reality are often at odds. Truth be told the Hammer sliders may not be the absolute low price leader I suppose the Grizzly $2600 G0700 is, and although they don't live on the basement floor the Hammers certainly aren't far up the steps. When you price out a Altendorf F45 ELMO it is pretty clear $15-18K is indeed mid-priced for a slider. If you think about it SS started at the very upper end of cabinet saw pricing when they entered the market with the then unnamed ICS. This seems like a good strategy since it established them as a quality brand that they have been able to build on. The baby slider market is probably low volume/low profit compared to sliders that would be used in commercial shops. I make the low volume deduction based on the fact there are very few players that bother with it.

[mreza Salav]

Reality and our individual reality are often at odds. Truth be told the Hammer sliders may not be the absolute low price leader I suppose the Grizzly $2600 G0700 is, and although they don't live on the basement floor the Hammers certainly aren't far up the steps. When you price out a Altendorf F45 ELMO it is pretty clear $15-18K is indeed mid-priced for a slider. If you think about it SS started at the very upper end of cabinet saw pricing when they entered the market with the then unnamed ICS. This seems like a good strategy since it established them as a quality brand that they have been able to build on. The baby slider market is probably low volume/low profit compared to sliders that would be used in commercial shops. I make the low volume deduction based on the fact there are very few players that bother with it.

Van, I could very wrong but my feeling is the trend is very different. Perhaps some of those working with manufacturers on this forum can chime in but my guess is the number
of small sliders Hammer sells is *growing* much faster than the number of big ones they (Felder) sells here. The reality is, the number of cabinet shops or commercial places needing these type of saws isn't increasing whereas hobbyist who have more disposable income coupled with lower priced good/smaller saws is.

[Erik Loza]

...the number of cabinet shops or commercial places needing these type of saws isn't increasing whereas hobbyist who have more disposable income coupled with lower priced good/smaller saws is.

That has been my observation.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Van Huskey]

I'll accept that Mreza and Erik. I certainly wouldn't argue the growing portion since I can certainly see the small slider market growing faster than what I would guess is a shrinking large slider market (economy + CNC). I would think profit would still be centered around the larger sliders but I could be every wrong about that as well.

[Dominic Carpenter]

Hi, John. Sorry, I just pick up this thread. I took delivery of a 78"x48" K3 last month along with the AF 14 dust collector. Hammer shipped both machines to me on the same truck from Delaware to northern Indiana for $343.00. That was through R&L carriers. Not familiar with west coast charges, but they should be able to better than that. You'll love the saw!
Dominic