Oneida Strikes Back...

[Jim Becker]

Well, folks...another option in the "kick-butt", yet budget conscious, 2hp cyclone market. And you will not loose this one in the shop clutter, either...;) More info at Oneida's web site (http://www.oneida-air.com/products/systems/gorilla/main.htm).

[Nick Mitchell]

I sincerely hope that Oneida isn't joining grizzly in the race to the bottom.

[Bob Marino]

Jim,

Thanks for posting.

Bob

[Jim Becker]

I sincerely hope that Oneida isn't joining grizzly in the race to the bottom.

No, I don't think so, although they are clearly addressing Grizzly's "threat". What it appears they have done to address the hobbyist market is take the 2hp commercial and look at where they could reduce material cost without damaging performance. My understanding is that the motor will be an import, for example. But it's the same high-performance cast aluminum impeller...and that's a critical component...as well as quality CNC plasma-cut and welded body components. UPS shippable is nice, too.

Pro shops? I think they should stay with the Commercial system with its Leeson motor and larger filters. But for many folks, this is going to be a very competitive option and largely made in USA, too. And it will "yeller" at you ever time you enter your shop! :D

[Nick Mitchell]

where they could reduce material cost without damaging performance Is that possible?

I just hope they don't slide down the 'cheaper is better' road and continue to make their high quality products.

"Dust Gorilla" ? :D Is a gorilla stronger than a bear? :rolleyes:

[Keith Christopher]

Competition always makes for good prices. bottom line is, people will not buy junk. I like to see this.

[Jim Becker]

"Dust Gorilla" ? Is a gorilla stronger than a bear?

I somehow think that is the general idea...but remember, it's a big YELLOW gorrilla and they must have special powers. :D (Marketing is an interesting art form...)

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Competition always makes for good prices. bottom line is, people will not buy junk. I like to see this.

I have to disagree with you Keith, I've seen people buy lots of junk. Just look at Harbor Freight and cheap Chinese tools. There definitely is a market for cheap, throw away tools.

[Bob Marino]

Is that possible?

I just hope they don't slide down the 'cheaper is better' road and continue to make their high quality products.

I hope so too :( !

QUOTE=Keith Christopher]Competition always makes for good prices. bottom line is, people will not buy junk. I like to see this.

Keith,

While competition is a good think, I disagree about people not buying junk.

Bob

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I am glad to see this! I am not ready for a cyclone. When I am I will have a look at this cyclone and get real world feedback from users.

[Ian Barley]

Is that possible?



I think that the answer to that is yes - as long as you keep an eye on what the market is looking for. I suspect that this is not aimed at somebody who will run this 12 hours a day, 360 days a year. If that is the case a lower cycle motor, lower cycle bearings etc.. will all help to control material cost without diminishing the users experience of the product.

[Keith Christopher]

I have to disagree with you Keith, I've seen people buy lots of junk. Just look at Harbor Freight and cheap Chinese tools. There definitely is a market for cheap, throw away tools.


Dennis,

point taken, let me re-phrase. discerning wood workers will not purchase the junk. I LOVE looking at harbor freight, however I have not ever purchased from them. :) Most of my point was in a position where you're the only supplier of a product, price is yours to set. And add a good or great quality product and well you can name the price. some competition take that leverage away and makes manufacturers take a hard look at costs and prices. I don't want to see anyone lose money or go out of business, but I do like competition. in a case like this I believe the "junk" will lose in the end.


Keith

[Joe Mioux]

Well: This is interesting. I was on the phone with Mark (don't know his last name) from Oneida this morning. He is directing me towards a 2hp commercial unit (undecided), and he didn't mention this new model.

[Andy London]

Well, folks...another option in the "kick-butt", yet budget conscious, 2hp cyclone market. And you will not loose this one in the shop clutter, either...;) More info at Oneida's web site (http://www.oneida-air.com/products/systems/gorilla/main.htm).
When I saw the picture I was ROFLMAO, I had it in the back of my mind they might do something like this, and being made at home, by people who know this dust market inside out, and to launch it at the same time as Grizzley....amazing isn't it.

I would be willing to bet this will put a large bucket of water on the Green Machine.......now which is bigger a Grizzly or a Gorilla??? :rolleyes:

[Chris Padilla]

I somehow think that is the general idea...but remember, it's a big YELLOW gorrilla and they must have special powers. :D (Marketing is an interesting art form...)

Green Lantern's ring won't work on it.... :rolleyes:

[John Bailey]

I love it, a price war with me a few months away from ordering a system. I wonder what Grizzly will come up with next.

John

[Nick Mitchell]

I wonder what Grizzly will come up with next.

John

They'll be making machines out of aluminium foil next ;)

[Jim Becker]

Let's keep it nice, folks!!! Remember, little kids and SWMBO may be watching...not to mention Ken.

[Rich Konopka]

Geez, That is a pretty good price. So what are the differences in the filters and how would it differ to basement dweller hobbyist who likes to spend money on big toys? Just when I was getting ready to jump over to the green side they came out with this big ole yellow sucker. :eek::p:D:D:D

[lou sansone]

Dennis,

point taken, let me re-phrase. discerning wood workers will not purchase the junk. I LOVE looking at harbor freight, however I have not ever purchased from them. :) Most of my point was in a position where you're the only supplier of a product, price is yours to set. And add a good or great quality product and well you can name the price. some competition take that leverage away and makes manufacturers take a hard look at costs and prices. I don't want to see anyone lose money or go out of business, but I do like competition. in a case like this I believe the "junk" will lose in the end.


Keith

believe it or not I have purchased from harbor freight and ......

IT was junk!!!!! I would never do that again.

I have found that oneida makes a real good DC IMHO.

lou

[Steve Clardy]

Decisions decisions. Though I am not in the market for a cyclone, I think competition is good also.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

believe it or not I have purchased from harbor freight and ......

IT was junk!!!!! I would never do that again.

I have found that oneida makes a real good DC IMHO.

lou

Lou, Keith, let me confess. I too have purchased from Harbor Freight, once, in 1995, I bought some clamps and hand screws. The handscrews were okay, but the clamps wouldn't take any presure. I'll never do it again either.

Those guys over at Woodnet love Harbor freight and not just for hand tools, they like their power tools too. I can't figure that out.

Anyway,I don't know anything about Oneida except their reputation for making premium quality products. I too hope they don't jeopardize that trying to compete with Grizzly and other low end manufacturers.

[Jason Thaxton]

I placed my order and shipping was free.:) :D

[JayStPeter]

Good for them. That's the kind of machine I wanted for my home shop. Plenty of power, but not necessarily made to commercial specs (with associated costs).
Now, if MiniMax would just make an import motor thinner steel cabinet version of their 14" jointer/planer ...

Jay

[Ken Salisbury]

Let's keep it nice, folks!!! Remember, little kids and SWMBO may be watching...not to mention Ken.

Oh Yeah - watching carefully



http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/misc/moderator.gif

[Jim Becker]

Now, if MiniMax would just make an import motor thinner steel cabinet version of their 14" jointer/planer ...

I think they already have you covered on the motor...it's an AEG. ;)

[Keith Christopher]

Lou, Keith, let me confess. I too have purchased from Harbor Freight, once, in 1995, I bought some clamps and hand screws. The handscrews were okay, but the clamps wouldn't take any presure. I'll never do it again either.

Those guys over at Woodnet love Harbor freight and not just for hand tools, they like their power tools too. I can't figure that out.

Anyway,I don't know anything about Oneida except their reputation for making premium quality products. I too hope they don't jeopardize that trying to compete with Grizzly and other low end manufacturers.

Only thing I ever thought about buying from HF was a machinist vise for my DP, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. I would think Onedia would make this a quality product, even in their "low end"


Keith

[Bob Boake]

If you look on the HF website you will find a cyclone that is a dead ringer for one on the Grizz site.
There are lots of buyers of tools that never put many hours into using them, for these purchasers a high end tool is a false economy. There is a need for tools that operate properly but are made to operate 10K hours instead of 100K hours. Onieda seems to be going after this market. The buy the best and biggest you can is not great advice for everyone. Occasionaly I need to move a 20,000 lb load but that doesn't mean I need to drive around in a semi all the time.

[mike lucas]

I thought General Motors owned the patent on that color! ;) It looks like the H2 Hummer:eek:

This will most likely help Onedia, but I really don't see it hurting Grizzly, as they sale so many different tools/machines that a few cyclones won't hurt any at all. Besides, Grizzly can under cut Onedia if push come too shove. As it is much cheaper to make a cyclone in China then here in the state. All Grizzly has to do is tell the manufacter that they must cut the price. If Oneida tries something like that, the workers would strike! Ahhh! The good ole US of A.:eek:

[JayStPeter]

I think they already have you covered on the motor...it's an AEG. ;)

I guess I should've specified "cheap" import motor. :D

Jay

[Jim Fancher]

If you look on the HF website you will find a cyclone that is a dead ringer for one on the Grizz site.

Wow! HF's price is $999 for theirs. Ouch.

Onedia is smart to built a cyclone at this price point. They even have ME considering one. :D

[Chris Padilla]

:mad: Hrmph!! Not one comment on my FUNNY Green Lantern comment. C'mon, that was funny!! :D


:confused:

:o

:(

[Steve Aiken]

I've been saving up for a DC for several years. I was talking to an Oneida rep on Monday of this week about whether I should choose the 2.0 Hp Component or the 2.0 Hp Commercial unit, and she did not mention the new Dust Gorilla. I gave her a hard time once I'd seen it on the website yesterday, and she said they had all been sworn to secrecy:rolleyes:

I had just finished drawing my shop plans and calculated the SP losses, and decided that I'd have to save for another few months in order to afford the 2.0 Hp Commercial unit. Now that I see the price, I'm thinking I can buy now after all.

The Oneida rep told me that the motor is an import, but still class F TEFC motor with a 2 year warranty. She said if the motor fails under warranty, it can be upgraded to the Leeson at that time for the price difference. The filter is different from the standard external filter cartridge. Same 99.9% of 0.2 micron efficiency, but says it is harder to clean because the pleats are tighter together. The filter is expected not to last as long, but it can be upgraded to the standard external filter cartridge with no changes to the system. The cyclone is the same except the top plate that the motor mounts onto is 1 gauge smaller.

I kicked in the $100 deposit today for the design service. I'm finding it hard to find a downside to the Dust Gorilla.

Oh, ya. A little funny....the Oneida rep slipped up and called it the 'Dust Grizzly'.

Steve

[Greg Mann]

I thought General Motors owned the patent on that color! ;) It looks like the H2 Hummer:eek:

This will most likely help Onedia, but I really don't see it hurting Grizzly, as they sale so many different tools/machines that a few cyclones won't hurt any at all. Besides, Grizzly can under cut Onedia if push come too shove. As it is much cheaper to make a cyclone in China then here in the state. All Grizzly has to do is tell the manufacter that they must cut the price. If Oneida tries something like that, the workers would strike! Ahhh! The good ole US of A.:eek:

While I do not know how Grizzy packages these things for shipment here, my guess is that a large percentage of the cost for Grizzly is in shipping these things. Shipping by boat is based on space taken, not weight. There is little, if anything, they can do about those costs, save finding ways to ship more compactly. The cost model on Grizzly's new machines may not have as much room for lowering prices as you may think. Oneida, in this case, has responded very skillfully, using their geographical and technical advantages to offset lower labor costs. None of us should ever underestimate the value of their design services. The efficiency of any system that any of us might install would almost certainly benefit from that technical expertise. It may very well allow many of us to 'get by' with a less expensive unit simply because the ductwork was done right.

Greg

[Jim Becker]

Hrmph!! Not one comment on my FUNNY Green Lantern comment. C'mon, that was funny!!

Actually, I had to think about it for awhile to figure it out!! Comics were not in my life growing up...

[Jim McCarty]

:eek:
I placed my order and shipping was free.:) :D Are you serious Jason? Free shipping on the Dust Gorilla? If that's the case, I'm all over this. Please confirm if this is the case. Thanks, Jim

[Bill Lewis]

Had I known about this, then I probably would have gone for this deal rather than the 2HP commercial unit. Oneida was apparently very tight lipped about this. The free shipping (if true) brings the savings to somewhere around $400. That's not too shabby. I still love the unit I have, It has such impressive power.

[Cliff Newton]

This comes with the magnetic switch and wall brackets. I don't understand why the price is so cheap. Are there any cutbacks other than the manufacturer of the motor?

[Mark Singer]

I bet it "sucks" in a good way....I have the Oneida and it works great!

[Mike Linne]

This comes with the magnetic switch and wall brackets. I don't understand why the price is so cheap. Are there any cutbacks other than the manufacturer of the motor?
Per Onieda rep the differences are:
1. Filter is 80%/20% cellulose/polyester versus spun bound filter.
1A. Filter area is larger
2. Asian sourced motor versus Leeson
3. Yellow color versus white
4. Thinner motor mounting plate
Items same as 2hp component:
1. Same fan wheel
2. Same body and cone dimensions
3. Same silencer arrangement
4. Fan curve

Filter performance is being tested at third party as of 4/7/05. Filter carries similar filtration rating as the 2hp commercial.

[Andy London]

I ordered one yesterday, will pick it up a week from Monday in Calais Maine, having it dropped shipped as bringing this stuff across the border is very expensive if you use a courier.

I had their commercial unit but never got it hooked up for a variety of reasons, it was the wrong time of the year and the pipe needs to be run under the shop and that is going to be a very time consuming ordeal. Did a smokin barter deal for some wood last fall and came out way ahead:)

I was considering the Grizzly as a see what it's like but when Oneida announced this deal, IMO, especially up here in Canada where our DC options are very limited, this is one smoking deal.

As always the folks at Oneida are super to deal with and demand for these units is very strong, so I was told.

Should have it in place by the first of May and will report back on what I think. The overseas motor does not concern me at all based on my own experience, I have a few tools with import motors and have never had a problem with any of them, in a commercial environment.....The rest of this unit, save the filters, seems very much like the commercial unit and as stated, one can upgrade the motor or filters at a later date should you need to.

So now I have a good 10 hour road trip to Calais Maine a week from Monday :D

[Steve Aiken]

Andy, can you check out my PM. I'm ordering the Dust Gorilla from Canada shortly, and want to know how you arranged the shipping.

Steve

[Andy London]

Andy, can you check out my PM. I'm ordering the Dust Gorilla from Canada shortly, and want to know how you arranged the shipping.

Steve
I sent you a reply however I know a lot of Canadian's visit this site so here is my reply.....

From time to time, I need bigger items from the states and as you are probably aware, UPS and Fed X charge your first born in brokerage fees, in this case close to $350.00 USD. Now I know Oneida ships UPS and I knew UPS has a drop warehouse in Calais so I had Oneida arrange with UPS to hold it at their drop centre. They will only hold for 2 business days but I know, in this case it will arrive Sunday, I will drive down Monday morning and pick it up. It's a good drive, 5 hours each way but worth it to me.

Oneida will take care of the arrangements, speak with Jeffery at Oneida and just reference me, he will set it up for you and you will save a lot.....I also purchased their remote as I will not be using the mag switch.

Good luck

Andy

[Jim Fancher]

:mad: Hrmph!! Not one comment on my FUNNY Green Lantern comment. C'mon, that was funny!! :D

I never read Green Lantern or watched the shows so I just assumed it was funny. :)

Now, throw a Spiderman or Richie Rich reference in there and you'll have me rollin'. ;)