113 compass plane

[bridger berdel]

I'm trying to get this plane to work right. I've read up somewhat about it, done what I can figure out to do and it's working better than it was, but that's not saying much. I'm getting short shavings that want to jam the plane, no matter the chipbreaker setting.

on this plane the frog isn't very adjustable- basically you can rotate it a bit in place, maybe get a tiny bit of up and down out of it. as the plane sits the plane of the ramp where the blade clamps is interrupted by the dovetail block/mouth. that is, the blade is held up off of the ramp. I shimmed the frog to where the blade just clears that block, but it doesn't seem right to me. I'm afraid to file that much off of the dovetail block- it looks like enough to weaken it. anyone here have a good running 113 you can get some pictures down the throat with the blade removed? on mine if I slide a straightedge down the ramp and out the mouth it lifts about 1/8", maybe a little less.

the chipbreaker looks to have been filed on a lot. I have it fitting pretty well now, but I'd sure like to get a look at a pristine one.

it can't be adjusted flat- if the front of the sole is flat, the rear is slightly convex, if the rear is flat the front is slightly concave. this means the front and rear are different radii, no matter the setting. the previous owner replaced the front knob. I suspect that he failed to clock the adjustment properly. is there any good info out there on how to do that?

this plane gas a pretty high gizmo factor, better for being a useful tool. I want to put it into use. anybody here have some clues?

thanks
Bridger

[Jim Koepke]

The 113 is a tricky plane to use.

The chip breaker can also cause problems. It is common for the chip breaker to be switched with a #3 chip breaker. If this is the case, you will likely not be able to make it work.

If you could post some pictures that might help to determine what is not correct.

The front knob is a double threaded adjustment mechanism. if it is incorrect, your plane may not work.

Also here are a couple of posts that may help:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?121761-Specialty-Planes-for-quot-Neanderthal-Wisdom-quot&p=1230575#post1230575

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?148391

The front and back being out of synch may be due to the previous owner getting the gear mechanism on the side misaligned.

jtk

[Van Huskey]

August 2012 FWW has a fairly detailed article on compass planes you might want to check it out.

[bridger berdel]

August 2012 FWW has a fairly detailed article on compass planes you might want to check it out.

I picked up that issue. Pretty good article, but it doesn't address my plane's issues. I'm looking for a bit more in depth information about fettling the 113...

[Frank Drew]

Bridger,

I've owned and used both a 113 and Record's 020 compass plane; when you need a circular plane they can be extremely useful, but neither of mine was what I'd call a precision instrument (in comparison to a normal bench plane). The inability to set the sole perfectly flat wouldn't bother me, though, since I'd never use it at that setting.

[James Taglienti]

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The 113 has a unique longer lever cap marked 113 on the back. also the chipbreaker is different than a bench plane- it doesnt have the hump by the cutting edge that we associate with typical stanley bench planes. This lets shavings sneak past a longer lever cap. The long lever cap reaches all the way past the frog and presses the cutter to the dovetailed block.

The dovetailed block sits proud 1/32 or maybe a bit less on my plane. I dont really think it needs to be shimmed. It still has more contact area by its edge than most of stanleys block planes. Note the machined surfaces that I am pointing at in the picture. It seems that Stanley intended the frog to be sunk a bit...

This plane is not capable of "smooth plane" shavings with any repeatability. It can leave a smooth surface but it is a chore. I have used it a few times but prefer my wooden compass plane.

Usually on inside curves i will set the arc a bit tighter than the workpiece and start a cut, and just ride the back end of the plane. The toe doesnt do much work at all.

RE the toe and heel out of wack
I think the geared parts are peened together. Someone would have had to do a lot of work to get them apart and back together. Check the hinges and the moving arm things that they arent bent or twisted. If all else fails maybe you can bend a hinge a little bit to take up some slack. This is not a precision instrument, even though it looks like one.

Hope this helps

[bridger berdel]

thanks for the pictures. it looks like I have the correct chipbreaker and lever cap. I'll play with it a bit more, try it without the shim or with less shim. I may also try lapping the top of the dovetail block/mouth support to better fit the blade. I'm hesitant to make any permanent changes to the plane configuration- this thing is 60 to 160 years old and from the looks of it, was in use for at least some of it's life. I doubt that there were defects from the factory that rendered it unusable.

I looked at the sole adjustment mechanism more closely. the side gears are assembled correctly. getting them clocked wrong would be hard to do and would result in a gross variation of sole radii. on mine, the difference is slight, which might not matter at all... but I'm chasing poor performance in a plane I don't understand well, so I'm bound to chase a few wild geese figuring it out. the only thing that I can figure out that would result in the fore and aft sections wanting to make (slightly) different curves is that one or the other of them is slightly bent. If I still can't get it to run well after doing everything else I'll pull the sole out and see about straightening it, although everything I've read about using it seems to indicate that most of the time in use only a small part of the sole is contacting wood- the exact curve isn't too important.


I'm still looking for more resources for this plane, if any of you know of an in depth compass plane page

thanks
Bridger

[bridger berdel]

Bridger,

I've owned and used both a 113 and Record's 020 compass plane; when you need a circular plane they can be extremely useful, but neither of mine was what I'd call a precision instrument (in comparison to a normal bench plane). The inability to set the sole perfectly flat wouldn't bother me, though, since I'd never use it at that setting.

it's not that I'd want to use it with the sole flat. that description was to illustrate the problem... the difference in curvature shows up with the sole curved as well. I'm not sure, but I suspect that the difference is less as the sole curve deepens- I'll check that out and report back.

thanks
Bridger

[Jim Koepke]

I'm still looking for more resources for this plane, if any of you know of an in depth compass plane page

Did you click on the links in my first post?

The sole's curvature is set by the moving arms. The front or back would have to have a visible kink to cause your problem. One possibility that may be possible is if the plane was taken apart and the sole was turned around. I am not sure if this is possible and will try to remember to take a look sometime today. We have to head into town soon, so it will be much later before my being able to get back on this.

The links at the front and back of the sole should be straight. If one is bent, it could cause your out of synch situation.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Measured the sole on my plane and it is 4-1/2" in front of the mouth and 5-1/2" behind the mouth.

If the sole got turned around by a previous owner, that would be the likely problem.

jtk