Best small Neanderthal tool collection to complement power shop

[Ari Friedman]

I have a tiny (about 10'x8' work area; everything must store in a 10'x3' space each night) workshop in my house that contains a bunch of power tools of widely varying quality (nice router/table, miserable table saw with nice blade, ok drill press, etc.)--all in benchtop sizes. I have mostly done small cabinets/bookshelves so far, but would like to get into nicer stuff as well as make the casework more precise.

I'm considering slowly acquiring a handful of reasonably nice hand tools which would complement the less elegant tools I currently use. I have some sense of what I need (plane, saw, marking gauge...) but no real idea as to the specifics of what I should get for maximum versatility as well as complementing the power tools I already have (block plane? tenon saw?), and really no idea at all what brands to get that would be in a reasonable price range (either used or new).

So...help? My priorities are versatility (I'd rather buy a few high quality tools than a set of cheap ones, but budget is pretty limited), complementing my existing tools, and size.

Thanks!

[bob blakeborough]

You say budget is limited... How limited? What sorts of jobs are you mainly wanting trying to tackle by hand? Stock prep work such as getting rough boards ready for use? Joinery work more such as dovetails, mortise and tenon etc? Finishing work such as surface prep for finish etc? I realize you could easily say all, but is there some form of work you are currently doing with power tools that you would like to move more towards hand tools? It can all have a great effect on which tools might better serve you in the immediate future if you are on a limited budget, while you can add more as needed in the future...

[Prashun Patel]

I would acquire them based on what yr project requires. I don't mean to be glib, but without focus, it'd be easy to spend more on handtools than all of yr powertools.

Lee Valley (Veritas) and Lie Nielsen generally are generally regarded as excellent quality for all hand tools. Lie Nielsen makes high quality, traditional style tools. Veritas makes high quality tools that attempt to improve on history. They get it right surprisingly most of the time. Their prices tend to be a little less than LN.

To start, I think a good set of bench chisels and a good sharpening system like the Worksharp is the best place to start. Learning how to tweak and chop with a chisel is the IMHO single best skill in hand tools to acquire. If you can do this, you can fix your shortcomings in most other areas.

[Sean Hughto]

I'd buy:

A LN 7.

A Titemark wheel-type marking gauge.

A 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, and 3/4 LN socket chisel.

A Gramercy dovetail saw, plus the sash or rip/cross cut tenon pair.

A medium sized Aurio rasp.

A Dave's shave or two and maybe the LN spokeshaves as well.

A LN 4.

Some hand scrapers, file, and burnisher.

A LN hand beader.

A LN rabbet block.

Those would be an excellent start.

[Ari Friedman]

There are a lot of comments about focusing on the tools I'll need for projects in the immediate future. So here's a list:



Picture frames of various sizes from small to 25x35". Have dimensioned maple. Plan is to cut to size at the table saw and then use half lap joinery at the router table. If I had a sharp plane or chisel I might consider using the (powered) miter saw instead to cut miters, then shave the miter exactly with a hand tool, spline at the router table and shave the spline with a hand tool.
Bathroom mirrored medicine cabinet. Have the cabinet cut already (rabbeted joints and back in 1/2" oak ply). Next step is to make the frame (plan is for half lap joints and a rabbet at the router table) out of dimensioned solid oak. The board has warped slightly while acclimating in my "shop," but I think the joints should be pretty square nonetheless. A hand tool to help precisely fit the joinery would be useful.

Miscellaneous projects to make the "shop" work better in the limited space



You say budget is limited... How limited? What sorts of jobs are you mainly wanting trying to tackle by hand? Stock prep work such as getting rough boards ready for use? Joinery work more such as dovetails, mortise and tenon etc? Finishing work such as surface prep for finish etc? I realize you could easily say all, but is there some form of work you are currently doing with power tools that you would like to move more towards hand tools? It can all have a great effect on which tools might better serve you in the immediate future if you are on a limited budget, while you can add more as needed in the future...

I'd say $50-75/tool would leave me buying a tool every month or two, which is a pace I'm fine with (leaves me enough time to learn each one).


I would acquire them based on what yr project requires. I don't mean to be glib, but without focus, it'd be easy to spend more on handtools than all of yr powertools.

Sage advice. Part of the problem though is that I have some sense of what the tools are for but I rarely am willing to wait a week or more to get the tool to finish the project. So I use an alternative method with the tools I have, which often takes longer and looks a little sloppier but gets the job done. For instance, I often want to pull a few hundredths of an inch off a board or shave a plug flush, but the block plane I have is simply not sharp enough (have plans to get it sharpened, but it'll be a few months before it happens, and it's a modern Stanley anyway which are by all accounts not particularly good). So I use rough grit sandpaper on a sanding block instead, or a flush bit in the router.


Lee Valley (Veritas) and Lie Nielsen generally are generally regarded as excellent quality for all hand tools. Lie Nielsen makes high quality, traditional style tools. Veritas makes high quality tools that attempt to improve on history. They get it right surprisingly most of the time. Their prices tend to be a little less than LN.

I'd looked at Veritas. Their saws seem pretty affordable. In particular these:
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=64007&cat=1,42884,68511&ap=1

[/quote=Prashun Patel;1943328]To start, I think a good set of bench chisels and a good sharpening system like the Worksharp is the best place to start. Learning how to tweak and chop with a chisel is the IMHO single best skill in hand tools to acquire. If you can do this, you can fix your shortcomings in most other areas.[/QUOTE]

That's very clear guidance, thank you. Given the budget constraint, I'll likely only be able to buy one chisel for awhile (have some Craftsman chisels in various sizes to hold me through in the meantime). What bench chisel should that be? 1/2"? Primary uses would be in fine-tuning joinery and squaring up mortises, etc.

Do you have any recommendations on places (books, Youtube videos, etc.) to learn the finer points of chisel work?

My brother is a mechanical engineer who forges in his spare time and is very into knife sharpening, so I'll likely have him teach me hand sharpening rather than buying a Worksharp. I already have some of the equipment, and I believe he has some spare stones.

[Prashun Patel]

Ari, I'm not the handtool guru that guys like the other guys are, so take my advice with a grain of salt vs the others, but...

for frames, a good hand plane with a shooting board (built) would be great. It'll give you miters like you never had before.

I also think you need first to get comfortable with sharpening. Any plane/chisel will be frustrating if not sharpened.

$50-70/tool is light unless you plan to get into rehabbing used.

[Sean Hughto]

Here's another thought. Buy yourself a copy of Aldren Watson's Handtools, Their Ways and Workings and read through it. Maybe the Anarchist's Tool Chest by Mr. Schwarz as well. These will fill your head with a ton of practical handtool knowledge. Then buy what makes sense for your projects and chosen working methods.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

For instance, I often want to pull a few hundredths of an inch off a board or shave a plug flush, but the block plane I have is simply not sharp enough (have plans to get it sharpened, but it'll be a few months before it happens, and it's a modern Stanley anyway which are by all accounts not particularly good).



Why will it be months before a plane gets sharpened? Is it lack of something to sharpen on? If that's the case, that would be be a good purchase. No tool is very good when it isn't sharpened properly, and some tools are dangerous when they aren't sharpened properly.

A more modern stanley may not be the best tool out there, but properly sharp it should be good enough for most jobs. Your craftsman chisels could very well do the job for most things, they might just not hold an edge as well, or sneak into dovetails as well.

[David Weaver]

It sounds like you should start with sharpening instead of more tools. Not necessarily something expensive, just a medium stone and a fine stone. But having a block plane that isn't going to be sharpened for a while is no place to start. It's, fortunately for you, probably the easiest tool you could have to sharpen and use, too, so start with that.

If you are on a budget, you want to try to buy vintage tools that have been in use by people who actually know how to use them. You might even spend $6 and put an ad up in the classifieds to do it ($6 will do you for the year, and you can put up as many requests as you want. ... like if you can stomach something once every 2 months, just do that then).

A tool that is proper (for example, sean sold a couple of vintage planes a few weeks ago) really will cost little more than one that's an unknown. but for a beginner, the difference is very well spent.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I think you need to step back a bit and rethink Art. You alluded to waiting a few months before getting the block plane sharpened which tells me you intend to send it out. I don't want to sound harsh, but the single most important skill in hand tool woodworking is the art of sharpening. Without sharpening equipment and supplies almost any hand tool you buy that has an edge will either not work properly out of the box or will be useless shortly after being used for the first time. Sharpening is the gateway skill upon which almost all other skills are based. Dull tools will not perform and will provide you endless frustration and poor results. Add to that the fact that dull tools require more force to move through the wood, and you greatly increase the risk of having a tool slip and either ruin a workpiece or cut you very badly. Succintly put, dull tools are dangerous.

Please do yourself a favor and research sharpening by BOTH using the search function here on the Creek and going out and actually talking with experienced hand tool woodworkers. Aacquiring a sharpening kit and becoming proficient in its use is of far more use than acquiring tools that have no sharpening supplies to support them. Sharpening is a broad area with twice as many opinions and methods as there are woodworkders so it is far beyond the scope of this thread to go there.

[Jeff L Miller]

All of the above is excellent advice and the tools recommended are high quality. I'll give you the perspective of a bottom feeder to work within your budget a little better.

I would start with an older c1910-1940's Stanley or (Millers Falls, Sargent, Union to name a few) hand plane and learn its workings. These can be had at yard sales, Craigslist, estate sales, flea markets etc. I would get a #4 size which can often be had for around $10, one of the most popular sizes. I would also get a block plane, I like those with the adjustable throat and a low angle blade. There is a glut of information on the internet regarding tune up and sharpening a plane...you can go overboard or learn to make it work, up to you. Make a shooting board like Prashun recommends and you're set for miters etc.

Ditto for the chisels and a mallet, garage sales are your friend. Throw in a couple of Disston saws and you are on your way. Dedicate a small section of your wall to hang the tools.....please don't drill any holes in them, and they should be within easy reach.

Once you are comfortable with hand tools, then I would jump in and buy a high quality plane, you won't be learning on it, you will have experience, and you will immediately appreciate the high quality. You don't mention your location, but the folks here would all lend a hand I'm sure if you stopped by...we all love to talk tools. This site is one of my favorites for information on hand tools http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/INDEX_How_To.htm

Jeff

[Jim Koepke]

Ari,

Welcome to the Creek. Your profile doesn't indicate a location. You may live near another member who would be willing to offer some test drives of tools and pointers on getting your blades sharp.

This is always an easy question for many folks... "Can you help me spend my money?"


For instance, I often want to pull a few hundredths of an inch off a board or shave a plug flush, but the block plane I have is simply not sharp enough (have plans to get it sharpened, but it'll be a few months before it happens, and it's a modern Stanley anyway which are by all accounts not particularly good). So I use rough grit sandpaper on a sanding block instead, or a flush bit in the router.

Without a well sharpened blade, it is premature to curse any Stanley planes. They have marketed some real dogs over the years. Some will not hold a blade square to the base and many other problems, but if the blade is not sharp, it really can not be determined if there is a problem with the tool.

One of the most important skills a woodworker can possess is the ability to sharpen a blade to razor like sharpness. Working with dull tools is not only frustrating, it is dangerous.

In the few years since finding Saw Mill Creek, my sharpening skills have improved dramatically. My cheap Stanley block planes used to make dust when cutting end grain. When my sharpening improved to take of tissue thin shavings from end grain it seemed to change my world. Yes, my Lie-Nielsen block plane is a great improvement, but the cheap Stanley block planes still have a place in my shop. One of them was almost sold, the deal fell through, and now I am glad to still have the plane instead of the money.

To purchase tools in the price range you mention will be difficult. My suggestion would be to buy a 4 piece set of the Narex chisels many of the members here have been happy to have bought. I have no experience with them, so I can not say for sure. If nothing else, they will give you lots of practice learning to sharpen.

My tools were mostly acquired used. This required a lot of work to rehabilitate and repair tools and an occasional dud was purchased.

Sean offered a list of some great tools. Unfortunately it has a price in excess of $1,000.

Tight mark is an excellent tool and is worth the purchase price. It is possible to mark with a lesser gauge. It is also possible to make your own and learn some skills and have an excellent tool.

Also learning what tool needs can be filled with inexpensive used tools and which ones shouldn't be anything but the best you can find is another thing.

An LN #7 is a great plane, but for what is normally done with a jointer, an old Stanley/Bailey #7 will suffice.

My wife is after me to get ready to head into town.

If you are not totally confused by now, I will try again later.

jtk

[David Weaver]

I had the modern stanley block plane to test a replacement iron, btw, and while it wasn't a wonderful example of the taste that a nice vintage stanley possesses, it was perfectly capable of doing good work.

[bob blakeborough]

As a starting place, if you are only going to buy one plane, probably the most versatile will be a Low Angle Jack. I like the LV but many others love the LN. There are cheaper Chinese knock offs that still are very functional but do not have the same resale if that is ever a concern. This plane with give you the ability to do the most amount of planing work decently with one plane, and even one blade if you don't mind a bit more sharpening. You can remove lots of wood quickly, square and flatten, and even smooth pretty decently. It is also one of your better options for shooting so you can make yourself a shooting board and really help with your picture framing and other jobs. A good little block plane will always come in handy as well...

Now if you are looking for a full compliment of planes focusing on specific tasks, a foreplane (say a #6), a jointer (#7 or 8) and a smoother (#4 or 4.5) will get all your dimensions and finishing under control. Bevel up or bevel down with create an entire different level of opinions from everyone, but either way you go just get something decent and you will be fine. Most of it comes down to what you get used too. You can buy new or good vintage for these. If you go vintage and are not into rehabbing tools, look for a good, reputable vendor who won't rip you off. Many people here could recommend someone I am sure.

The LV saws are most definitely going to give you some of the very best value in something that works very well. You can also go vintage if you are into rehabbing and sharpening, but personally with a saw I would start with something you know works well so down the road if you get into saw sharpening, you will know what they should be performing like. A Dovetail saw and a crosscut saw will let you do almost everything smaller scale without issue.

A decent set of bench chisels is always nice. Cheap and decent look at Narex at LV. You get an entire set right off the bat and they sharpen well and hold a pretty good edge. A bit more money, the new Stanley Sweetheart chisels surprised me. They sharpen well, hold and edge and feel pretty darn nice to work with in the hand. If you like vintage socket chisels and don't want to break the bank, these are great. There is definitely a the good argument about buying a few premium chisels and adding more as time goes on and you require the various sizes because the reality is you will find yourself using 2 or 3 sizes most often so no need to go nuts on an entire set off the hop. If you go this route, the new LV's or the well proven LN's are excellent and worth every penny.

Of course having any of these tools won't help you diddley-squat if you don't learn how to sharpen them well. I would invest in a good tool sharpening book. There are many ways of sharpening and everybody says their way is best, but really it is more about learning a way that is easy for you and sticking to it and learning it well. I like water stones and use a guide. It works extremely well for me but many others prefer 100% freehand. Other also prefer using machines. Totally up to you but in the end you just need a truly sharp tool and how you get there is up to you...

Now once you start down the slippery slope you start getting into specialty tools such as shoulder planes, router planes, plow planes, rabbet planes, mortise chisels, dovetail chisels, fishtail chisels, etc, etc, etc, etc... You can, and will if you get hooked, spend more money on handtools than on equipment, but personally I feel like there is nothing quite as satisfying as the feeling I get from completing something by hand vs using equipment. There is always a place for both of course, but I love the almost romantic feeling I get from working in the methods of days gone by...

[Ari Friedman]

Why will it be months before a plane gets sharpened? Is it lack of something to sharpen on? If that's the case, that would be be a good purchase. No tool is very good when it isn't sharpened properly, and some tools are dangerous when they aren't sharpened properly.

A more modern stanley may not be the best tool out there, but properly sharp it should be good enough for most jobs. Your craftsman chisels could very well do the job for most things, they might just not hold an edge as well, or sneak into dovetails as well.

Because that's when my bro will next visit with his stones :-)

Maybe I should prioritize sharpening above new tools then?

[george wilson]

The very first thing I taught my apprentices to do was to sharpen tools. That gave their skills a quantum leap immediately. I agree that sharpening should be your first concern. The trouble with tools is that they need FREQUENT sharpening. Sending your plane out to be sharpened is totally impractical. It may stay sharp for an evening or less. Then,you are back to square one.

What you don't need to do is spend a fortune on exotic sharpening stones. For years I used a coarse/fine India bench stone followed by a barber's razor stone. You could find them in flea markets,though a large variety was around,and some were more suitable than others. If you could find a used Arkansas stone,and make a strop,you'd have a good start-combined with the India stone.

We were very poor all the time I was growing up. I used a cheap gray hardware store stone,and was stubborn enough to strop it on a piece of paper until the tool was pretty sharp(not as sharp as I get them now!!)

Use some silver polish on your strop. I use leather glued to a flat piece of wood. Some use MDF with polishing compound on it. Silver polish will be fine until you get your shop together better.

[Ari Friedman]

Lots of great advice that I'm still digesting. Just to clarify: I intended to learn to sharpen when my brother next visits. I was definitely not planing on sending them out or only having them sharpened when he visits (every 6 months or so). He has a really astounding knowledge of metal and sharpening, so I figured it would be a good way to learn.

I've added my location (Philadelphia, PA) to my profile. Thanks for the suggestion to do that.

Given all the advice, I'm currently leaning towards buying the Veritas dovetail saw and waiting on chisels and planes until I get proficient at using and sharpening what I've got.

[Don Jarvie]

See if there are any woodworking/sharpening courses in your area that you can attend. It goes so much faster with someone showing you than learning from a book or video, not that the book or video are useless. Once you have sharp tools the work gets easier.

I use both hand and power tools. I have a basic set of hand tools, Lie Nielson tenon, Hand planes - Stanley equivalent of #3, 4, 5 and 8, Marples Blue handle chisels and crown marking gauge. Remember, you have to start somewhere.

[Jim Neeley]

Ari,

I'm sure this is getting to sound like a broken record but getting *one* sharpening system and mastering it is the single most important "tool" you can get and will take you further than any other. Fettle your plane, learn to sharpen it and your chisels and get *really* good at it as you are saving for more tools.

You said you have some lower-end chisels already. I don't disagree that you'll want to replace them but thise chisels, with a very sharp edge, will cut. Even the best chisel without a sharp edge, will not. This from a guy who has retired a set of cheap chisels for good ones. The cheap ones required more frequent sharpening but they work.

Once you think you've mastered sharpening, use your tools for a while and then go back and learn sharpening again! It really is that dramatic and important of a step.

[Steve Bates]

Ari, I'm just starting woodworking myself. I understand the steep learning curve. Also, this is on my time and money so it's got to be cheap. I learn better by reading than listening because I can reread until I understand. So I watch the newstands for magazines.

I picked up WOODCRAFT magazine, April/May issue because the top of the cover states Mastering The Chisel. I reckon it's a good article. I've got a couple of cheap chisels I've sharpened and using bits of pine and fir clamped in a Workmate I can follow along with the article.

Just my two pennies,

Steve Bates

[Ari Friedman]

Ok. Watson book is ordered and learning how to sharpen my chisels is on the agenda. :-)

[Gary Herrmann]

A lot of picture frames? In addition to a shooting board and a block plane, consider a mitre box. Walt (Brasscity Records) has had some good ones recently. Not affiliated, just a frequent customer.

And definitely learn to sharpen as has already been stated. I did scary sharp for a long time before moving to stones. Enjoy the slope.

[paul cottingham]

If I were to start again, I would start by reading Chris S. anarchists tool chest, and Aldren Watson. Both are indispensable. Then I would get some sharpening gear. Before my hands went, I used a 1000, a 4000, and an 8000 grit stone with a guide. Sharpening is a gateway skill, get good at it, and you will love woodworking.
i think you, at a minimum need chisels, (I have the Narex ones, if you can afford them, the new LV or Lie Nielsen ones are lifetime tools) a good carcass saw, rip and crosscut, again, the LV ones are an awesome value. I would also get a marking gauge or two.
I figure if you round that out with a low angle jack with a few blades, and you are well on the way.

[Rob Fisher]

I will add to the broken record...learn to sharpen. Also read Chris Schwartz's Anarchists Tool Chest. It's about making a tool chest for hand tools as well as all of the basic hand tools you need to fill the chest and do most furniture related projects.

[James Taglienti]

Hardly any of these planes are going to be of much use without a decent vise.

I would suggest a bench vise, something solid to put it on, a good block plane to clean up the kerf left by your miserable table saw, some new chisels, and a sharpening setup. A lot of guys seem to suggest things like scrub planes and miter boxes, which leaves me wondering, when a child is learning to swim do you drop them in the ocean or throw them into a lake? Or take them to the kiddie pool... (sharpening lessons)

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

James brings up a good point on the vise. Certainly, a lot can be accomplished by working against stops - but a decent vise is probably the most used tool in my shop. Certainly if you have a decent vise, and use it, it goes a long way towards removing the danger from the most dangerous tool in the hand tool shop - the chisel. If both the work is secured, both hands can be on the chisel. If both hands can be on the chisel, neither one can end up in front of it. Clamps can work for a lot of operations, and stops work well for planing work (and I prefer them for some planing operations) but I wouldn't want to be without a vise if I didn't have to.

[David Posey]

I seem to still be able to slightly injure myself with a chisel even with both hands on it. I was cleaning up some dovetails yesterday and ended up with paper cut size slits in my finger exactly 1/4" apart from the side of the chisel.

One thing I've seen left out is is a knife if you don't already have one. It figures in to hand tool work a lot more than power tool work. I don't think there's been a project I've done without using it for almost every step. And if your brother is a bladesmith, he should be able to make you a great one. Take a look at some designs and see what will work best for you. I end up using a utility knife about half the time and it works fine, but if you have someone who can make something better, then go for it.

[Bob Jones]

May seem like weird advice, but could save you time and trouble. Buy a couple of good books on using hand tools and then decide what to get. I would personally recommend The Anarchist Tool Chest (C Schwarz), Woodworking Essentials (Robert Wearing, Lost Art Press) and an easily obtainable out of print book by Wearing about hand tools (i forget the title, but it is great). Read at least the Wearing books and you will have a very good idea about what is needed in a hand- tool shop. I would have wasted much less money if I had started with these books.

[Rick Fisher]

I am a newbie to hand tools but can tell you, I hated my block plane and chisel set until I learned to sharpen them .. Since learning a bit, and being able to get an acceptable ( to me ), I actually find myself using them frequently..

A sharp chisel is an amazing tool, a dull one is a paint can opener ..

[John Coloccia]

Ari, from the short list of projects you listed, my opinion would be to forget about buying anymore tools and just concentrate on a setup to get that block plane razor sharp. I think you'll find that for the kind of work you do a small block plane will get used the most. I'm not sure why you're leaning towards buying a saw. A razor sharp block plane should be your priority. Maybe you can find someone in your area to help you select a sharpening system and show you how to use it. Personally, I've moved away from waterstones, preferring the ceramic Spyderco stones and a strop that George Wilson has been recommending for some time (took me a while to see the light, but I see it now :) ) Whatever it takes, though, I wouldn't buy one more tool until you can get that block plane absolutely, ridiculously sharp.

Forget about the shaving hairs test...even a dull edge will chop off some hairs (relatively dull, anyway). Take the plane iron and present it to the edge of a piece of paper. Don't slice. PUSH the iron straight at the edge. Does it cut right through the paper? A truly sharp edge will let you push it straight on and chop the paper in half. You can sometimes even hold it at a shallow angle and pare slivers off. Not everything needs to be this sharp all the time, but a decent piece of metal CAN get this sharp.

[Paul Incognito]

Hi Ari,
There's a lot of good advice here.
My shop is in Wilmington, DE. Not too far far from you.
If you want to test drive some tools and/or try out some sharpening, PM me and we can set something up.
Paul

[Chris Griggs]

Ari, I'm in the middle of a move to Philadelphia. Returning after 4 years in New Orleans. I just signed a lease in West Philly not to far from the Universities. I'll be totally settled by mid July. If you're interested, send me a PM and we will set up a time to get together. I will teach you to sharpen and show you a few hand tools that might help you make future purchasing decisions.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I'm really pleased with the responses in this thread and the offers of help for Art. This is what Sawmill Creek is all about, learning from those who have walked the walk. I'm proud of you folks, keep it up.

[Mike Olson]

You are in an old city which is GREAT If you want good old tools for cheap.
Look in your local newspaper for estate sales and watch for signs. Find the websites for each Estate sale company in your area and check their sites every week. You will find some great older tools cheap.

I went this route when I started since I couldn't afford new tools and my workshop is smaller than yours. Not only did I find just about everything I needed but i got the chance to disassemble, clean, tune each tool so I knew exactly how it worked and doing the research online for each tool will give you detailed information on tuning it.
This is not a quick method to get into neandertools but it's cheap and you will learn a lot.

Another tip for Estate Sales is you will have to hit them early on the first day as there are people who buy and resell these tools for a living.

[bridger berdel]

ditch the miserable tablesaw and get a nice old small cast iron bandsaw. there are some small old cast iron tablesaws out there if a small tablesaw is something you really want, but small tablesaws are a pain or dangerous for sheet goods and everything else is probably better done on a bandsaw, which takes up less room. for sheet goods, use a handheld circ saw and a good straight edge...

handtools:

block plane
jack plane
jointer plane
measuring devices
chisels
handsaws
clamps (just keep getting more as you need them)
different weights of mallets

[Ari Friedman]

Sharpening tools - I have a bench grinder, leather-over-wood strop, and good polish already, so that's a start. Just need a two-sided stone then. And the knowledge to use them.


I'm putting off buying new tools until I learn how to sharpen the ones I've got. Y'all have saved me quite a bit of money, which I appreciate! Holding off on buying nice tools has the added advantage that I'll hopefully know what I'm doing when I start sharpening the $$ tools.


I'm in the process of building a bench, so this thread has made me prioritize a nice bench vice as well.



One thing I've seen left out is is a knife if you don't already have one.


Do you mean a marking knife?



If you want to test drive some tools and/or try out some sharpening, PM me and we can set something up.


That's a very kind offer, and I may well take you up on that in a few weeks when life settles down. Thanks.



I just signed a lease in West Philly not to far from the Universities. I'll be totally settled by mid July. If you're interested, send me a PM and we will set up a time to get together. I will teach you to sharpen and show you a few hand tools that might help you make future purchasing decisions.


Likewise, a very kind offer. We'll be neighbors, in fact. I'm in West Powelton. Welcome to Philly!

If you haven't discovered the West Philadelphia Tool Library (http://westphillytools.org/) yet, stop by sometime. They mostly have crude carpentry and home repair-type tools, but they can still be handy for borrowing some extra clamps and so forth. And they're a good place to donate spare tools (as well as to buy them...their annual yard sale has some ridiculous bargains if you get there early).

[Chris Griggs]

Likewise, a very kind offer. We'll be neighbors, in fact. I'm in West Powelton. Welcome to Philly!

Awesome. We will literally be walking distance from each other. I'll literally be a couple blocks from the 46th street train station, probably less than 6 blocks from you.

Maybe Paul will let us both come visit him out in Delaware.

Also, there's a guy who posts here named Trevor. He, I believe, lives in East Falls. We have a pending plan to meet up at some point (I was promised some home brewed beer:)). Check out his blog (http://twdesignshop.blogspot.com/) , he has done some pretty impressive stuff.

[Jerome Hanby]

I've been thinking about the same subject. I finally punted and just bought the Anarchist's Tool Chest. It may actually be intended to describe a sufficient set of hand tools to build furniture, but seem to me that would actually work as a goal for a "power" shop as well. The Schwarz may be one of the big deities in the neanderthal pantheon, but he still uses power tools...

Another thing about hand tools, you can derive a lot of pleasure just from handling them. Playing with my Record 405 and other hand planes is nice. Cleaning and adjusting my table saw, not so much. Doing a big refurb (like an old Unisaw) is rewarding, but hopefully that's a one time job and every day use is just getting the job done.

[Ari Friedman]

Awesome. We will literally be walking distance from each other. I'll literally be a couple blocks from the 46th street train station, probably less than 6 blocks from you.

Maybe Paul will let us both come visit him out in Delaware.

Also, there's a guy who posts here named Trevor. He, I believe, lives in East Falls. We have a pending plan to meet up at some point (I was promised some home brewed beer:)). Check out his blog (http://twdesignshop.blogspot.com/) , he has done some pretty impressive stuff.

Sounds like fun. Are you going to have space for a full shop? As I recall the area north of the station is mostly full houses and the area south is mostly apartments?

[Jim Koepke]

I may well take you up on that in a few weeks when life settles down.

I gave up waiting for life to settle down about 40 years ago.

Grab it by the ankles and hang on…

jtk

[Ari Friedman]

I gave up waiting for life to settle down about 40 years ago.
Grab it by the ankles and hang on…

Well yes, but there are crazy periods and there are crazier periods :-)

[Don Jarvie]

There is a WWing school in your area called the Philadelphia Furniture Workshop which seems to be pretty good from looking at their website. Might be a place to look into.

[daniel lane]

Ari,

As others have mentioned, you may want to consider the $6/yr contribution to SMC, which gets you access to the classifieds here. Some good quality but inexpensive items can be found there, from trustworthy sources. The contribution also gets you eligible for freestuff drawings, and there's one going on right now (to the end of this week) for a set of Narex bench chisels. I guess I'm sort of tooting my own horn here, but I put up those chisels for a free drawing exactly to entice folks like you to join SMC and not just be members. Contributors stick around and help the site stick around, and both will help you learn a lot (they both certainly helped me)!

Welcome to the creek, and best of luck!



daniel

[bridger berdel]

Because that's when my bro will next visit with his stones :-)

Maybe I should prioritize sharpening above new tools then?


lots of good sharpening resources on the web. start with whatever wetstones or whatever you have now. if you have *no* sharpening equipment, search google for scary sharp and go from there. this will get your tools sharp now and familiarize you with the basic concepts. you have enough tools to practice sharpening.

[bridger berdel]

There are a lot of comments about focusing on the tools I'll need for projects in the immediate future. So here's a list:


I'd say $50-75/tool would leave me buying a tool every month or two, which is a pace I'm fine with (leaves me enough time to learn each one).




on that kind of budget I'd really encourage you to buy vintage and rehab them yourself. there are lots of old woodworking tools out there. stuff from 50 to 100 years ago tends to be at the quality level of expensive high end stuff from today. you'll have to educate yourself a bit as to what to look for both good and bad, and how to sharpen, clean and adjust what you find, but at $50-75/ every month or two it's probably going to be the quickest way to a good set of user hand tools.

[bridger berdel]

Sean-

you've just blown his budget for what, the next 5 years?






I'd buy:

A LN 7.

A Titemark wheel-type marking gauge.

A 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, and 3/4 LN socket chisel.

A Gramercy dovetail saw, plus the sash or rip/cross cut tenon pair.

A medium sized Aurio rasp.

A Dave's shave or two and maybe the LN spokeshaves as well.

A LN 4.

Some hand scrapers, file, and burnisher.

A LN hand beader.

A LN rabbet block.

Those would be an excellent start.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I would second the recommendation for the Philadelphia Furniture Workshop run by Alan Turner and Mario Rodriguez. They run an operation with first rate instruction no matter what your type of woodworking orientation.

[Pinwu Xu]

Ok. Watson book is ordered and learning how to sharpen my chisels is on the agenda. :-)

Check your local public libraries for the WW books.

Since you are in PA, chances are, you can pick up old (WWII or earlier) tools at yard sales, or flea mkts (I hope), at least, you can get some decent chisels to start
practicing sharpening and using them.

[Paul Incognito]

Maybe Paul will let us both come visit him out in Delaware.:)
Sure. The more the merrier. Anyone that's in the area is welcome.
There's some second hand shops in New Castle County (northern De) that I've gotten quite a few good tools from. The New Castle farmer's market also has a flea market on the weekends that I've found a lot of good deals at. Good stuff a short drive from Philly.
Paul

[Chris Griggs]

Sounds like fun. Are you going to have space for a full shop? As I recall the area north of the station is mostly full houses and the area south is mostly apartments?

Full shop? that depends on what you consider a full shop. I have no large stationary power tools and do almost everything by hand. What I do have is a great set of hand tools and sharpening stones and what i will have, for the first time, is a dedicated shop space in the basement (no basement in NOLA). We are renting a house so I guess thats a yes, I will have space for a full shop. You can come by and play in my shop and then you and I will head out to Delaware and raid Pauls shop.... It'll be fun!

[Jim Matthews]

I'm really pleased with the responses in this thread and the offers of help for Art. This is what Sawmill Creek is all about, learning from those who have walked the walk. I'm proud of you folks, keep it up.

I thought this was where we foisted off our gimcracks that we bought as "shortcuts" before we settled on the list Shaun posted.

I read Jim Tolpin's book on the same kind of choices and it has made for utility, and an (unfortunately) large supply of "extras" in my kit.
Jim actually makes furniture for a living, rather than primarily as a writer - his tool choices are weighed as production costs.
<http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Traditional-Woodworker-Woodworking/dp/1440304289>

One thing I would warn newbies of is the trap in buying things you would like to use - and then settling on your project list.
Let the projects chosen determine the tool set - not the other way 'round.

Jim
WPT, M
(where it's hot, like Africa-hot)

[Kevin Lucas]

"I'm in the process of building a bench, so this thread has made me prioritize a nice bench vice as well"

Ari you mentioned a blacksmith friend in one of the earlier posts. If you can't find a good vice cheap you can have him make you some holdfasts. Nice and simple way to hold your work. A search here will show a ton of nice bench builds for ideas too. Welcome to the forum )

[Paul Incognito]

You can come by and play in my shop and then you and I will head out to Delaware and raid Pauls shop.... It'll be fun!
Just let me know when. I'm looking forward to it!
Paul

[Ari Friedman]

Just let me know when. I'm looking forward to it!
Paul

Pirate hats at the ready!

[Matthew Hills]

For your picture frame project, I'd give a lot of thought to making a mitering sled for your table saw. If you put your effort into making this accurate (getting the reference fences at 90 degrees), then you should be able to get a good result (use splines to reinforce the joint).

If you want to move towards a predominately hand-tool workflow, take the shop visits (actually, do these anyways) and spend some time watching Bob R's podcasts ( http://www.logancabinetshoppe.com/ ) and/or checking out Paul Sellers' blog ( http://paulsellers.com/woodworking-blog/paul-sellers-blog/ ). Both work with a pretty minimal set of hand tools, and both have bench build discussions.


If you're looking for more of a blended workshop, I'd suggest:
- reliable square
- reliable straight edge
- sharpening method
- a few chisels (something ~1/4" and a wider one to start with)
- a bench plane
- (saw(s) if you want to cut joinery by hand)

The square and straight edge are universally useful.
Sharpening will be needed for pretty much everything else.
Chisels serve a variety of uses (a sharp, wide chisel is a reasonable way to trim something flush; or if you want to square something up that came off the router)

The hole I see in your list of power tools is the jointer/planer combination. Even if you buy surfaced lumber, as you noted, it may not be perfectly straight/square, or it may not stay that way. Good technique and plane(s) can clean this up, although most blended shops seem to use a planer for thicknessing. On the high end, something like a LV low-angle jack would be an excellent choice here as it can serve a variety of roles (hogging material to flattening to surfacing to shooting). But, pretty much anything in the #4-7 size range can do a lot of these things. Usually just a bit of tradeoffs between how easily a given size works for a task.

I didn't put a panel saw on the short list, as your power tools should be able to do these tasks for now.

If you get interested in hand-cut joinery, then getting joinery saws are useful. I liked the "Z" dozuki saw from Woodcraft, although it won't do really long tenons. For western saws, the Veritas offerings are pretty well-regarded and economical.

But, the most important thing is to have fun!

Matt

[Ari Friedman]

Finally got around to taking a picture of my shop. It's 6.5' wide by 3.5' deep by maybe 5' tall. Then I can spread out a bit, but it all needs to go back in this space by the end of the day in order to access the laundry room. The stuff in front of the old coffee table that serves as a bench is not normally there; this was taken in the middle of cleaning.

http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr155/linuxizer/shop.jpg

Have a waterstone and diamond plate that my brother recommended on the way. I'll let y'all know how sharpening goes.