Delta Shaper 43-792--Any thoughts?

[Peter Quinn]

Hi guys, I'm looking to add an entry level production shaper to my shop. I have a minimax T40 I like a lot, its a keeper. I've been looking for an SCMI T-110 but nothing has come up that is local, in good shape and in my price point. I have a possible lead on a used delta 43-792. Seems like an attractive package, its been discontinued by delta (as have apparently all shapers), so parts may be harder to source.) Anybody have one or have experience with one? If not anybody know where to point me in terms of auction sites? Thanks in advance for your input.

[mickey cassiba]

That ones built by Invicta...or one of the later copies. The spindle cartridge and spindles should interchange with the light duty Deltas but everything else will be tough to find, As far as I know, most of the bearings, etc are off the shelf but you'll have to measure. The Delta mystique, dontcha know. Castngs and such can be found(rarely) at OWWM's BYOD forum. We had problems finding parts for them when I worked for Delta. It's a hoss though.

[Mike Heidrick]

There is a $4900 T110 on ebay in PA. Make an offer? There are a few on ebay.

[Peter Quinn]

There is a $4900 T110 on ebay in PA. Make an offer? There are a few on ebay.

I'm feeling thats a little north of what that machine is worth. I'm seeing cheaper examples in a younger vintage through some of the other resellers. The slightly younger t-110's have dual dust ports in the rear and an improved fence as far as I can deduce. They are more of a green paint scheme, the gold being the older version? I've just recently started focusing on this, though I've been keeping a casual eye on the local and regional CL and poking around the net.

[Peter Kelly]

The Delta 43-792 is a nice machine but I'd make sure the one you're looking at is one of the Invicta models before moving on it. J&G can order you parts direct from Brazil:

http://www.jgmachinery.com/search/index.php?viewtype=Invicta&type=Invicta&stype=l

[Jeff Duncan]

Wow, talk about bad timing for you! There was just an IRS auction down your way in which there were at least a dozen shapers that went for reasonable prices! Griggio 1000 and 2000 models some going for around $1k IIRC. A guy in my neck of the woods picked up a Martin from the same auction for just shy of $2k....though it looked pretty rough. Closer to me at auction a couple Asian made industrial shapers went for well under $1k last week....probably not as nice as a SCM, but decent machines for the money!

What kind of work are you going to be doing? If it's primarily door parts for example the fence isn't that big a factor, (IMHO anyway), and so you could go a little outside the box and pick up that dual spindle Whitney on e-bay for under $2k. Set up one spindle for sticking and the other for raising or coping?

If your looking for more flexibility than I'd stick to the Euro style shapers. Some of the older Delta's were made by SCM so they may be pretty good machines. The newer ones were made by Invicta. Personally I think I'd probably be inclined to lean towards the SCM made ones over the Invicta....but that's just a personal preference:D I honestly haven't used a bigger Delta shaper so that advice is not worth a whole lot.....I just like SCM equipment;)

If you don't mind sharing your price point we may be able to steer you towards something? For instance, in my experience a SCM T-110 yellow edition generally runs $2500 at local auctions with a feeder.

good luck,
JeffD

[Peter Quinn]

Jeff, my price point is around $3k, I have a feeder, but it's on a delta HD shaper I'll be selling, so getting a feeder bundled would work fine if I can sell one with the shaper. The delta 43-792 is gone, I moved too slow. My work varies, but mostly entry doors and small custom molding runs thus far. Reason this is on my mind, I just ran 800LF of molding for a guy, I needed two shaper set ups, I have 2 shapers, but the little delta could not produce the results I needed for a stain grade soft wood job, so I did it all on the mini max. Results were perfect. At this point 90% of the cutters I own are really too large for the delta, frustrating, time to trade up a weight class.

My phase convertor will push a 7 1/2hp motor, I'm going down a bilco, so at some point more weight is not better. The minimax has a crappy fence, so I'd like to have one good split fence in the shop. I'm now checking IRS auctions regularly, I'm patient, I'm willing to travel or pay regional freight to a commercial address. I'll keep looking until the right thing pops up. Any other auction sites worth checking?

[Larry Edgerton]

Heres one I would buy if I wasn't trying to get my house done for cash......

http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machinery/posts/458025.html

Same guy has a 16" scm jointer with Tersa head, must get house done......

Larry

[Jeff Duncan]

OK from what your describing for your workload I agree a nice Euro shaper will make you happy. And your budget will get you into something used with hopefully a little life left in it. Your best bet is going to be an auction, but I wouldn't give up on calling and negotiating hard if you found something close on ExFactory, E-bay, or similar. I know there are other auction sources around if you look, but to be honest I've found plenty to keep me busy between E-bay, CL, Woodweb, and IRS.

I don't have a ton of shaper experience, but this is what I've found. I started with the Delta HD and hated it, too small, too much vibration, and I always felt like getting the height perfect was hit or miss. I know there are thousands of happy users out there, but I learned a lot about how to use equipment in a shop that was very well equipped. So I'm kind of spoiled and probably a bit of a tool snob:( Anyway I bought a brand new Powermatic 27 which was a better shaper, but still fell short of what I was expecting. Lousy fence, too much vibration, and I smoked the bearings in less than 2 years pushing the machine a wee bit too much:eek: I picked up an Asian tilting shaper which for a cheap import was far and away better quality than either of the other 2. And finally picked up the Martin last year. Having used the Martin for a year or so now I appreciate having a machine that can handle 1-1/4" tooling with ease. No vibration, and when setting heights the spindle adjusts quickly while still allowing height adjustments measured in thousands of an inch. The fence is rock solid and can also be adjusted very precisely. These features allow for very quick changeovers between tooling and true repeatability.

So obviously I'm now a huge fan of Martin;) Unfortunately even though one like mine would fit well into your budget, they seem to be pretty uncommon and don't show up everyday. So the next one I'd look at, (I should stop here to add that this is based on a lot of online reading, especially over at Woodweb, more so than direct experience, so please take this advice for what little it's worth;)), would probably be a SCM T-130. These for some reason seem to hold their value quite well, (probably b/c they seem to be looked at as 2nd in line to Martin), but if you can find one within your budget I think you would be very happy with it.

Next in line...the SCM T-110, now if you have a little patience you should definitely be able to secure one of these for a decent cost. I don't remember how many of these I've seen at auctions locally over the last 10 years or so, but they are far from rare. I'd actually go so far as to call them a staple in any medium to large shop. I'm sure you could find more than a couple in dealers inventories around the Northeast. From there you have companies like SAC, Casadei, and Griggio to name a few, all have pretty good reputations, however I'd want to see them in person and give the fence a good once over as that can be a weak point on less expensive machines.

FWIW Alliance machinery one state north of you has a couple used shapers in inventory. Unfortunately they're one of the dealers that doesn't list prices so you have to call, but may be worth looking at if your in a hurry. I also recommend Ben Rock at Pleasant St. Machinery in DeKalb Illinois. Great guy to talk to with a LOT of shaper experience. Your not going to get a bargain basement machine from him, but he'll get you something that's been gone through and is ready to work.

good luck,
JeffD

[Jeff Duncan]

Almost forgot....one other thing I have found valuable is posting a WTB on your favorite websites. When I was looking for a slot mortiser I found very little out there. I posted a WTB on Woodweb and got well over a dozen responses. There are a lot of guys sitting on equipment they don't need, but just haven't gotten around to doing something about it!

JeffD

[Peter Quinn]

Thanks Jeff for the great ideas. I'll try alliance and the WTB idea too. I'm patient. I've made a few calls and shipping can sure add the cost as a percentage at is price point, something regional would surely keep the cost down. If the need becomes immediate I guess I'll eat that, but I'll sure try to avoid it for now.

[J.R. Rutter]

The T130 is a great shaper, along with the other similarly sized Italian and German machines. The great thing about the T110 is that you can just barely move it around by hand - especially with a feeder for shifting the balance. Compact, heavy enough for production. The T130 is not easy to move...

[joe milana]

Not sure you would be interested, but one of the guys on the Yahoo MM group has a couple older Northfield shapers for sale. Good price too.

[Van Huskey]

Peter I saw your ad on Woodweb but thought it was a for sale ad and I was getting ready to pop back over here and tell you there was just the kind of thing you were looking for and it CT as well!!! Then I saw it was WTB and your name right there at the bottom. :(

[Jeff Duncan]

Just perusing e-bay and saw a nice older T-130 down in Florida at the upper end of your budget. Does have the "make an offer" sign on it though so???

just fueling the fire:D
JeffD

[joe milana]

I say that Northfield on woodweb is a good buy. 3/4" spindle though. I believe the guy has more than one for sale so it might be worth contacting him. He's a nice guy.

[Jeff Duncan]

I think Northfield makes some great stuff and that is a very good price IMHO, however for what he's said he's looking to do I'd argue the European design allows more fleibilty. In reality if I were to buy old American there's a Whitney dual spindle that looks to be in great shape going for $1800....now that's a machine!

JeffD