Dust Collection for a newbie

[Brent Romero]

Been a while guys. I have been involved in a remodel/update of 3 bathrooms and so my woodworking time has been null. As I recently acquired a Ridgid jointer and a Delta 22-590 to compliment my collection and I am finally getting around to firing them up, I am quickly realizing that I probably should invest in a dust collection system.

Any tips and pointers would help. Not looking for something incredibly sophisticated but rather something that I can connect to one or two pieces of equipment at a time to allow for dust/shaving collection. Would prefer a wall mounted unit..looking at the one below.

Thanks in advance for the help.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-HP-Wall-Hanging-Dust-Collector/G0710

[Ryan Wood]

Hf sells a realy good 2hp dust collector. I have one and i have a whole pvc pipe dust collection system. On sale it is only around 150. THe one upgrade most people do to them and what i want to do to mine is add a canister filter. The wall mounted dust collectors tend to be under powerd.

[Michael W. Clark]

Hf sells a realy good 2hp dust collector. I have one and i have a whole pvc pipe dust collection system. On sale it is only around 150. THe one upgrade most people do to them and what i want to do to mine is add a canister filter. The wall mounted dust collectors tend to be under powerd.

+1. You can also find used single stage machines as well. Check CL, local WW clubs, etc. I bought a used 1.5HP jet with canister used for similar price. However, the wall mount would probably be a step up from a shop-vac, at least in terms of material capacity.

[Chris Parks]

It will leak dust as it only filters down to 30 microns. It needs to be mounted in an area where the dust is not returned to the workshop.

[Myk Rian]

I have had my HF 2hp collector for several years. I put a 1 micron bag from JDS, and a trash can separator on it.
The 2 micron bag it comes with isn't bad at all.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I would forget the wall mounted unit. The should be called "dust distributors" as that's what they do. All the junk is in the filter bag, and fines are returned to air in shop. . You either have a zipper, or use the throat of bag to empty it. Both of which equate to a PITA! Look for a "two stage" (HF is one) and add a Thien Baffle before DC unit. Google "Another Vote for Phil Thien's Baffle" to see how I made my "Top Hat." Upgrade filter bags to 1.0 micron or less.

[Chris Parks]

To add to what Bruce said, anything that returns air to the shop needs filters, good ones and any bag type dust collector should never be placed where the air will return to the shop, end of story. All they do is save you using a broom to sweep up with at the end of the day. The absolute best way is to exhaust the dust extractor to atmosphere but that is not always feasible.

[Bill White]

I got GOOD bags from Highland Woodworking. They are felted, and work very well on my HF collector.
Bill

[David Kumm]

Check the fan specs on any collector you buy. Some HF collectors have blades that are forward inclined rather than backward. Those units deliver great cfm at low restriction but if you put a tighter bag and flex they will underperform in comparison to a BI fan. Hard to tell by feel but get the fan info. Dave

[Ryan Brucks]

I have the HF collector with the Nano Wynn filters. A good improvement over the stock filters. I think the HF unit is ok for jointers and planers, but for a table saw I don't think it is powerful enough. Bill Pentz's research backs this up, according to him the 2hp HF is more like 1.5hp achieving 600cfm tops. The thing has a rather small 10" impeller compared to other 2hp units like grizzly and jet.

I modified mine to use a 6" inlet but still the power draw is only like 10 amps so it's really not doing what I hoped. Not even close to enough cfm for a downdraft table with a 6" line for instance.

I am currently upgrading to a 5hp clear vue cyclone. I will be keeping the HF around just to help clean the filters of the new cyclone.

I'd also echo what others said about that tiny 1hp wall unit being a waste of time. If you add filters, it'd be underpowered. Without them, it's dangerous.

[Ryan Wood]

Is there anyway to increasse the propeler size or anyothere ways to get more suction from it because I was planing on buying a cartiage filter for mine withing the next couple of months but I dont want to waste my money. I did take a look at the 2hp canister dust collector grizzley sells but it runs on 220 and i would have to add a sub panel which I want to do some day but i dont have the 800 it would take to get a sub panel added. I may trie to save up for a sub panel this summer because school ends wensday and I think i am going to be doing some work for this painter I know. Sorry if my post got off topic

[Ryan Brucks]

I once read about someone who succesfully fit a larger Rikon impeller to the HF motor. I tried briefly but couldn't find a way to order the parts. I emailed rikon a few weeks ago but never heard back from them. Maybe you will have more luck. One small issue is the vanes on most of the impellers face the wrong direction for the HF (I forgot which direction to be honest). So you get some gains, but not as much as if the impeller were made larger with the correct vane direction.

I also read of a separate attempt where someone tried to put a larger grizzly and it was just too big to fit.


The biggest thing you can do is probably to change the motor mounting design. People usually do it in order to fit a thein separator under the inlet, but you can build a frame for the motor so that the motor is vertical, and located righy by the inlet to the HF ring by the filter. So then you have the blower connected physically right to the bag/filter with no 4" flex hose 90 bend. That 4" flex 90 is sure to choke down the CFM a decent amount. I know there are some photos of this change floating around, but it should be easy enough to wing it.

Would it get you the 800-1000 cfm needed for fine dust collection at the table saw? I doubt it, but it can't hurt!

[Ryan Wood]

Thanks I am going to have to try mounting the motor up higher

[Carl Beckett]

You could pretty easily run into problems changing impeller size.

The motor is designed to run at a certain loading condition. If you change the impeller - housing - it affects the load on the motor. Ultimately you could burn up your motor. If not damage - you would want to check to see if the new load was going to change the speed of the motor - thus losing any gain in the first place.

If you look at commercially available combinations, you see pretty consistent relationship between rated motor size and impeller diameter.

[David Kumm]

Generally a 2 hp motor is mated to a 12" impeller, 3 hp to 14", 5 hp 15-16". there is some variation due to design and system configuration. HF was running a smaller diameter which is why some were successful in swapping it out- besides being backwards. When you saw impellers within the same housing you may see less benefit than if the housing and fan were designed for each other. Dave

[Van Huskey]

The first question you have to ask yourself is if you are trying to protect your lungs or just collect chips... Once you have decided that and determined a budget people can focus more on a direct answer.

[Ryan Brucks]

Carl, yes you are right. I found the thread where someone tried putting a larger grizzly impeller on the 2hp HF, and it was way overloading the motor (actually tripping the breaker since he didnt want to see what would happen on a larger breaker). Wasn't too big like I remembered just overloaded the motor.http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=470.15

The Rikon impeller I was referring to is only around 12" diameter, so its barely bigger than the HF impeller which is around 10.75" so a small increase and IMO less likely to overload the motor. You'd still want to check the power draw though. Probably not worth swapping for such a small gain but just throwing it out there for anyone who is curious. Wish I could find that thread where it was done successfully.

(edit: on page 1 of that same thread I posted, someone else briefly mentions the 12" rikon impeller working for them. that must be what I recalled)

[Pete Moe]

I got a HF DC used as my first system. I got a cyclone lid for a 30 gal trash can from Woodcraft, and remounted the motor so that the intake is a direct mount to the lid, and the output is a nearly direct connect to the bag system.

My next purchase is a corrugated 2 micron filter... just have to keep saving pennies.

The most dangerous dust is the smallest dust... and you need a lot of flow to capture all of that. Van is right on about being aware of the choice you are actually making.

[Brent Romero]

Thanks for the advice guys. I have changed my mind about the wall mounted unit based on advice received here.

[Jerry Thompson]

I am going to tear my hair out in great wads! A lot of things confuse me but the more I read about dust collection the less I understand.

[Rod Sheridan]

The first question you have to ask yourself is if you are trying to protect your lungs or just collect chips... Once you have decided that and determined a budget people can focus more on a direct answer.

Agreed, shavings you can clean up with a shovel, the dangerous fine dust needs a proper collection system................Regards, Rod.

[Chris Parks]

I am going to tear my hair out in great wads! A lot of things confuse me but the more I read about dust collection the less I understand.

That is a common problem and is being discussed in in another woodworking place on the net right at this moment. It is a shame that links from other forums on stuff like this cannot be published here especially when they are dealing with a subject that is health threatening. I just can't see the point of not disseminating this sort of information by restrictions of this type. Can it be justified, I think not.

[tim young]

I would buy used as several have suggested as a short term improvement... Here's the reasoning to do so. At some point you will decide it isn't good enough because now you have 5 tools and not 2 that need DC. You're tired of moving the lines around. So you'll try to run 4" PVC and find it gets clogged or just doesn't have enough CFM's to pull all the material through. Bottom line is you'll want to upgrade. If you buy used you can resale and lose a minimum amount of money if any. That money will go towards a cyclone. We all end up there, it's just a matter of time. My 1st DC was a like new Jet 1100. It served it's time for 5 years and when I sold it, I lost $50. A very well spent $50. Unless you buy to keep until they die, I would not buy HF. When you go to sell, you'll have a hard time selling them and you won't get much for them.

[Michael W. Clark]

I would buy used as several have suggested as a short term improvement... Here's the reasoning to do so. At some point you will decide it isn't good enough because now you have 5 tools and not 2 that need DC. You're tired of moving the lines around. So you'll try to run 4" PVC and find it gets clogged or just doesn't have enough CFM's to pull all the material through. Bottom line is you'll want to upgrade. If you buy used you can resale and lose a minimum amount of money if any. That money will go towards a cyclone. We all end up there, it's just a matter of time. My 1st DC was a like new Jet 1100. It served it's time for 5 years and when I sold it, I lost $50. A very well spent $50. Unless you buy to keep until they die, I would not buy HF. When you go to sell, you'll have a hard time selling them and you won't get much for them.

+1. This is what I wanted to say in my earlier post in this thread, but Tim did a much better job.

Not to undermine the advise from others about a cyclone system, but this approach may be more financial friendly and allow your DC needs to grow as you acquire more tools. You just have to realize the limitations of this equipment and decide if it will work for your current/future needs. If you are running one tool at a time and can connect directly to it with minimal duct, this will probably be fine. If you want stationary tools with a fixed duct system, then a 3HP+ cyclone system may be better.

I believe you can get good bags for the single stage units if you don't want to do the cartridge filter. The benefits of cartridge filter is you get more cloth area in the same physical space, reducing your pressure drop and lengthening the time between cleanings. Most (if not all) commercial/industrial shops use bags on single stage collectors. Not saying it doesn't exist, but the only time I've seen cartridges used in these environments is when they have some type of automated cartridge cleaning system (Donnelson/Torit is one example). When using bags, they just turn off the system and beat them with a broom handle at the end of the day/shift to clean the bags.

[Matt McColley]

I suggest you have to answer a couple questions first...

1. As mentioned... do you want to protect your lungs or keep the shop tidy?

2. Are you going to hard plumb your shop (which can be really expensive)? or run the machines off of flex, directly to the DC?

3. Do you want to buy and use a DC or take on a DC project? For me personally, buying the HF DC and then spending time and money getting it to work well wasn't appealing.

4. Do you have a 220 v outlet available (or are willing to wire one up)?

5. Are you going with a bag filter? or a cartridge filter? (I'd strongly recommend at least a 1 micron cartridge)

Your answer to these questions will help focus you search.

I just set up my shop with this DC (http://www.grizzly.com/products/2HP-Canister-Dust-Collector/G0548Z)and three gated 4" flex runs and I'm very happy with it. Here's a review (http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/product/2673)I found for the DC that I found helpful. I also run a Jet air filter in the shop as well, as you're never going to suck up all the nasties in your DC.

There is a ton of good info on Bill Pentz's site..... but fair warning.... you'll walk away thinking that you're family will all die within a week if you don't immediately drop $2K on a 5 HP Clearview cyclone and another $1K on piping and modifying all your machine connections to 6". There is an unpopular counter point out there that thinks that if you can't afford to follow Pentz's recommendations to the letter, and are foolhearted enough to continue woodworking anyways, you can improve your situation with a small single stage anyways.

[Ole Anderson]

I look back on my DC purchase and install as the highlight of my shop improvements over the years. It just ties everything together, literally. It even equalled the completion of my large computer hutch in personal satisfaction of a job well done and which will continue to give returns out into the future. Sure parts of it were a PITA, but overall, I couldn't wait to get back to work on it until it was finished. And now that it is finished, every time I step into the shop and fire it up to work on a project, I grin just a bit as I look around as see a steel duct dust collection system that looks like it was installed by a pro.

Shop tour: http://semiww.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9926