Newbie experiments with Dye on oak

[Prashun Patel]

I just completed this oak bowl for my daughter's teacher (although I'm sure she'd prefer a $20 Target gift card).

Anyway, I thought I'd share my experience since I'm a newbie.

I used Transtint green dye diluted in distilled water. When applying like this there are a couple risks: 1) uneven coloring and streaking. I alleviated this by pre-wetting the bowl. 2) Around the end grain, this wood DRANK up the dye and spat it out on the other side. Even with a single color, it's a prob, because the dye appears on the other side as little dots that are hard to reblend. Again, prewetting alleviates this. On a sunburst style pattern, I think it might even be beneficial to wash coat it with highly thinned shellac first.


If you look closely, you'll see that the green dye does not soak into some of the oak pores, leaving a speckled appearance. I am not sure how to alleviate this. Is it surface tension in the water? Would using a different solvent help?

[Tim Rinehart]

Prashun, this came out very nice I think. Besides just a wonderful shaped bowl, the dye work looks very nice. If the lack of color in some of the pores bothers you (doesn't me from what I see), you could always think about applying a liming wax to accentuate it even more. The oak would be a good candidate for the liming wax. Just be sure to hit it with a couple light sprays of lacquer or other sealer to seal out the wood in between the porous ring bands. Don't want to wash out the color, just to fill in the 'big' pores, if that makes sense.

[Roger Chandler]

Nice job, Prashun...........I actually like the contrast of the grain on this.........gives it a more lively finish.

[Bob Bergstrom]

I would try a little transtint mixed with paste wax. Wear some hand protection and rub the wax into the pores. The idea of liming wax or a dark wax is also suitable. Transtint mixes with alcohol also and alcohol dye is a little more forgiving. Overall the piece really looks great and would be a winner for any good Irishman.

[Rick Markham]

Prashun, It looks nice. I haven't tried dyeing Oak yet (other than ebonizing in the past) not exactly sure why the pores didn't soak up any of the dye. I've been using multiple applications of different colors (generally with different solvents) I've been doing my initial back coloring with dye in water, then later colors with alcohol. If I were you, I would tint some shellac with Transtint Canary yellow and seal the piece with that. It will make your green almost "electric" looking and as the shellac fills the open pores you will have bright yellow speckles in it. Might take a few layers of tinted shellac to fill the pores, but I bet it will look incredible. (I've done something similar recently, but not with an open grain species.) Then clear coat of your choice on top.

[John Keeton]

Nice work on the bowl!

Probably was red oak, as the pores of red oak (vs. white oak) are open and transfer liquids like a straw. As for the dye not "soaking into the pores" I suspect it is actually the opposite - that the pores sucked the dye inward and left an open pore that appeared "undyed."

[Eric Holmquist]

Nice form with excellent clean cuts on the surface. The dye job works quite well, with the contrast of the pores working very nicely.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Prashun that is a great looking bowl. I like the simple form and I like the color. Maybe me but I like the little differences of color.

[Rick Markham]

Nice work on the bowl!

Probably was red oak, as the pores of red oak (vs. white oak) are open and transfer liquids like a straw. As for the dye not "soaking into the pores" I suspect it is actually the opposite - that the pores sucked the dye inward and left an open pore that appeared "undyed."

I'd suspect that you are right, it would explain the spotting on the other side, as well.

[Michelle Rich]

If I had tried this I would have filled the pores before trying to dye. Or I would do the liming thing.

[Bob Rotche]

I really like this, Prashun! The most important part is that you started with a very nice form on your bowl. Without out that as a foundation the best dye job in the world won't save it. To me, the dye looks fine as is. I'm sure there are ways to tweak it as you've heard from some very good artists but I would be quite proud of this and definitely better than a $20 Target gift card!

[Steve Schlumpf]

Nice bowl! You did a great job on the dye! Nice even coverage! I think the open pore effect is nothing more than the way the open grain reflects light!

Oh - be warned that when turning thin hollow forms, your dye can wick through the walls no matter what kind of wood you turned. Best way to get an even coverage without the small dots appearing is to just dye the outside of the form. That way, if any dots appear - they do so inside the form and out of sight.

One other comment.... if possible, try to use a very small amount of dye (very light coloring) and apply it multiple times to build to the color you desire. If the color is to dark with your first application, it is a bear to try and remove or lighten.

Good luck!!

[Robert Henrickson]

If you look closely, you'll see that the green dye does not soak into some of the oak pores, leaving a speckled appearance. I am not sure how to alleviate this. Is it surface tension in the water? Would using a different solvent help?

Advice on this problem with oak

http://www.joewoodworker.com/transtints.htm

"On wood with very pronounced pores like oak and ash, you may notice that the pores do not accept dye and remain light. This is a surface tension phenomenon related to the inherently high surface tension of water."

There are several remedies suggested there, and comparison of alcohol vs water dilution.

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks for all the comments. This bowl is being delivered as is. Personally I like the way the light color and topography reflects the light on this highlighting the grain. It's what makes oak special!

I'm trying to convince my daughter to give a different one to her teacher so I can keep this one ;)

My finishing regimen was deceptively complicated on this. The dye showed my sanding deficiencies around the end/side grain transitions (curse those areas!!!!). I had to sand back the whole thing to get even coverage.

I base coated with yellow, then applied the green. Yes, Steve, I applied it light and snuck up on the color with about 4 coats. I decided I wanted it darker and darker, so with each successive coat, I added a drop of black to the mix. There are yellow undertones in some of the denser areas of sidegrain and near the bottom of the bowl. It does look reptilian.

I sprayed this with Deft Finish. I love that stuff. The build was not happening fast enough so I brushed on some shellac. BAD IDEA. I now know what 'dye lifting' means. It means color streaks that look like drips and runs. I went back to spraying the Deft and quit while I was ahead...

I'm still going to experiment with color layers. I've been inspired by some work by Joe Landon (Google '2 dye 4 Joe Landon') and Steve's green goblin hollow form.

[Rick Markham]

I sprayed this with Deft Finish. I love that stuff. The build was not happening fast enough so I brushed on some shellac. BAD IDEA. I now know what 'dye lifting' means. It means color streaks that look like drips and runs. I went back to spraying the Deft and quit while I was ahead...



I encountered this in my first piece, I've resorted to spraying the shellac, now it never runs or lifts any color.

[David DeCristoforo]

When it comes to coloring and finishing, oak is, in "professional terminology, "a bitch". As you have discovered, the "early" and "late" wood rings have completely different qualities. One is dense and hard, the other like a handful of drinking straws. Finishers have fought this forever. There is almost no way to make the wood accept color evenly. One of the most commonly applied techniques is to fill the pores with a contrasting material to accentuate them. Andy DiPetro uses this technique frequently with great results and Baxter Smith recently posted some oak pieces that used it to achieve a most dramatic result. Of course, you could also use a colored filler that would more closely match your desired tone, creating a more subtle effect.


As has beed said several times now, the best thing about this bowl is the form, not the color.