What's the table saw blade that'll give me the smoothest finished cut?

[dirk martin]

I was at some wood show a few years ago, and a guy was demo'ing a table saw blade that left a glass-smooth finish. It was guaranteed forever, and he'd sharpen it for free if it dulled.

That was a 10" table saw, and that saw and blade are now long-gone. I got a new 12" table saw last week. Can someone recommend a similar blade for it? I'm not too concerned about cost.

I do mostly ripping and some cross cutting.
90% domestics, 10% exotics.

[Peter Quinn]

I don't know of any one blade at excels at both ripping and crosscutting. There is one blade with sand paper on the plate so it theoretically cleans up the saw marks, but it seems to me it would just be adding sanding scratches instead.

For "smooth" rips I like a glue line rip blade, and I'm pretty happy with the Freud brand I'm using presently. For smooth cross cuts almost any 80th blade from a good maker will do. Ive used Freud, Amana, Schmidt, tenryu, cmt, dewalt, Popular, and DML, among others with good results. I've never heard of carbide tooling that never needs sharpening eventually, but in a small shop that eventuality may prove infrequent enough for a guy at a tool show to use free blade sharpening as a sales hook. Most manufacturers won't.

[Carl Beckett]

I have never really tried getting a glass smooth finish on rips, I just run it over the jointer (hand or power).

For crosscuts - I have a Frued 80t 'Utimate Cutoff' blade (or some name like this). Very smooth cross cuts. But - I rarely use it since putting together a shooting board. Now I just hit the end with the smoothing plane if I want it cleaned up - no blade changes required.

[scott spencer]

Any single blade that's designed to do a "good" job at most tasks inherently won't have the ability to do a "great" job at any. Inversely, any specialty blade that's intended to do a great job at a specific task wont' be good for much else. Thus the differing philosophies about whether to use a single general purpose blade or multiple task specific blades....both philosophies have merit, and you really need to choose based on your preferences.

Having more teeth typically equates to a smoother cut, but also creates more resistance, heat, and more chance for burning. Having fewer teeth tends to equate to a faster, but rougher cut. The tooth grind also has a big influence on tearout characteristics for crosscuts. Most rip blades use a flat top grind or a triple chip grind that are efficient at removing chips from the kerf, but that also tend to cause more tearout than a grind with a bevel like an alternate top bevel grind (ATB). The higher the angle on that top bevel, the less tearout there will be..."Hi"ATB grinds tend to have top bevels of greater than 25°, and have the least tearout characteristics of any grind, but also have the most rapid wear, so aren't a great choice for high volume applications.

A blade with a lowish tooth count and an ATB grind might make for the best overall compromise of traits if you want to stick with one blade. The Forrest 30T (http://www.amazon.com/Forrest-WW12307125-Woodworker-12-Inch-Circular/dp/B000OMPBN0/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1339329483&sr=8-13) or 40T (http://www.amazon.com/Forrest-WW2407125-Woodworker-12-Inch-Circular/dp/B000OMQT18/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1339329293&sr=8-6) general purpose blades, or Freud Fusion 48T (http://www.amazon.com/Freud-P412-Premier-12-Inch-Perma-Shield/dp/B00119R51G/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1339329406&sr=8-14) Hi-ATB blade, and Ridge Carbide TS2000 (http://www.holbren.com/ridge-carbide-ts2000-12-x-40t-x-1-1-8-kerf-combination-blade.html) are a good compromises IMO, if want just one blade. Otherwise, I'd get a glue line rip blade, and a separate crosscut blade.

[Peter Kelly]

Was likely a Forrest Woodworker II blade you saw at the show: http://www.forrestblades.com/woodworker_2.htm

I've never heard about them sharpening stuff for free but they do a nice job on pretty much any blade.

[John Coloccia]

I have a Freud Fusion and have been very happy with it. Yes, it needs to be sharpened, but it performs well on just about everything. It doesn't give a glass smooth cut, BTW, but it does give a very good cut on everything I have.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I have not used many different blades, but, my Forrest Woodworking II blades leave a very nice edge. I also have a Forrest blade that I use for plywood (although the WW II seems to do OK with ply). The blade that came with my sawstop was not as nice as the WW II blade.

[Myk Rian]

I use 3 blades, mostly.
A Freud Cabinetmaker for cross cuts
A Freud Glueline for up to 1" ripping
A Freud combo for everything else.

All leave a nice edge.

[Gordon Eyre]

I have a Forest Woodworker 1 blade that gives a very smooth cut. I just had it sharpened for the second time and it still cuts great.

[lowell holmes]

My current favorite is a Freud with siver ICE coating. I also have a Forrest WWII and a Tenryu freshly sharpened by Forrest. They all do a great job.

I have an Amana 24 tooth rip blade for heavy ripping. I can rip a board close to width (1/32") and then rip it to thickness and get glue line precision.

[Jay Jolliffe]

Gordon, did you send the blade to Forrest for the resharpening ?

[Matt Meiser]

I really like both my Ridge TS2000 and the Forrest WWII 40T blades. Unless I'm cutting plywood, one of these virtually never leaves my saw. I recently got a glue-line rip blade which I just tried last week on some 4/4 hard maple and while it ripped easier, it really wasn't enough better that I found myself wanting to switch back and forth. Don't get me wrong--its a great blade, but the great 40T combos do a great job too.

[Rick Fisher]

I have some great quality blades and have come to the conclusion that you tend to get what you pay for, and if you buy great quality, the name means less and less.

I use Tenryu, Forrest and FS Tool.. I have a few Freud blades, when sharp they are great too..

For glass smooth cross cuts, I use a Tenryu 80 tooth Gold line blade.. It would however be a terrible ripping blade..

[Bruce Wrenn]

I was at some wood show a few years ago, and a guy was demo'ing a table saw blade that left a glass-smooth finish. It was guaranteed forever, and he'd sharpen it for free if it dulledI think you have seen the Oldham (US SAW) blades. They included a $20 coupon to be used towards sharpening. Unfortunately, PC bought them, and then B&D bought PC. From there the story goes down the toilet.

[Zach Callum]

Was likely a Forrest Woodworker II blade you saw at the show: http://www.forrestblades.com/woodworker_2.htm

I've never heard about them sharpening stuff for free but they do a nice job on pretty much any blade.


I bought one at a show and it included a coupon for one free sharpening. This did not include shipping.

The quality of cut also has to do with the saw...

[Gary Herrmann]

Very happy with my Forrest WWII. So much so, that I bought a backup for $60 when Amazon had a sale.

[Chris Fournier]

If you are seriously into woodworking you need to move on from the retail hyperbole and magazine adverts. Look for an industrial tooling supplier in your area or even further afield and contact them, set up a commercial account and buy your tooling from them. Why is Forrest on everyones mind? Because they advertise and promote their product like crazy. It ain't some magic carbide recipe or secret geometry that makes them so "great". They're great because they say so. Every Forrest blade bears the cost of their marketing departments efforts, this is the reason for the premium pricing not some excalibur like ability to slice through wood like a hot knife through butter. I would agree that Freud makes great blades, I used their 10" blades for years.

Presently I deal with a very competent local tooling supplier who makes their own product and the quality and results are beyond reproach at a very reasonable cost; their tooling shames Felder yet the cost is lower. Do your research and shake off the "me too" tooling approach.

[fRED mCnEILL]

"They're great because they say so."
Gosh, and here all along I thought I liked my Forrest blade because it gave me a glass smooth cut on everything I cut on my table saw and sliding moter saw.Whoda thought...........

[Andrew Pitonyak]

... Look for an industrial tooling supplier in your area or even further afield and contact them, set up a commercial account and buy your tooling from them. Why is Forrest on everyones mind? Because they advertise and promote their product like crazy. It ain't some magic carbide recipe or secret geometry that makes them so "great". They're great because they say so...

Although you may be accurate on every account, if I purchase a Forrest, or any other well known brand, I have a pretty good idea what I am getting. I have had very good luck when I walk into my local woodcraft and purchase what they recommend. As I gain more experience, I am more likely to leave the known trail with success. I have spent much money on unknowns that did not work well. Given that I am not in the field and do not know people in the field, I expect that I could easily spend a few hundred hours just trying to search down locals that build what I need or desire. I expect that is why the original poster asked. If you lived near the poster and suggested your suppliers, that would for certain be of use. If not, perhaps providing hints as to how to find the locals might be useful... I would not have a clue where to start. So.... clues please, I am uneducated in this.

[Rick Fisher]

Chris is right ..

Does not mean that Forrest doesn't actually make a great blade.. just that its not rocket science.. Care and attention may go into quality control but a saw blade is not a space shuttle. The companies spin the idea of fancy coatings and special grooves.. When I talk to my sharpener, he says he can tell the quality of a blade when he sharpens the teeth.. some crumble, some take an edge..

[Larry Edgerton]

My best ever rip blade was a FS Tool 12" heavy plate, but a Freud Industrial is a close second.

I'm not loyal, I have saw blades from just about every maker of note. One I will not buy is CMT. In my opinion they are junk, and the company will not back up their product when they screw up.

Larry

[Ron Kellison]

For general purpose use I have an old Systematic 50T and a Ridge 2000. When sharpened, both do a wonderful job on crosscuts. The Ridge seems to stay sharp a bit longer but it's basically a coin toss as to which is better. The Ridge is quieter. For ripping I use a Systematic 24T. It just chews through anything up to 2" and leaves a good finish. I still clean them with a very sharp #7 plane adjusted to take off about .002 for glass smooth edges.

[Prashun Patel]

The Freud Glueline rip blade sounds like what you need. The thing is, I'm not sure it comes in 12", and I hear it excels in cuts < 5/4. On yr 12", I imagine you'll be ripping a good deal thicker stock. If $$'s no issue, then maybe get a cheap rip blade and a Ridgid 6" jointer... ;)

[Bill White]

I've been usin' Freuds for a long time. Recently picked up some Onsruds from the Bay at great prices. Both are excellent blades, and won't break the bank.
Bill

[scott spencer]

Still following your thread Dirk? I'd be curious what you end up getting.

[Van Huskey]

Forrest got their reputation by being "first" in the modern carbide blade industry, they are still very good but there are others which are just as good. I am a fan of the Freud Industrial glue line rip but the Forrest WWII w/ 30T although different is also a good blade for "finish" ripping.

I have quite a few Forrest, Freud, Ridge, Infinity and Tenryu blades, all are excellent and each has positives over the next. That said if/when I need another blade I will call Tom at Carbide Processors and get one of these: http://www.carbideprocessors.com/Carbide-Processors/Worlds-Best-Saw-Blades/

[mreza Salav]

I had a Forrest WWII and I think they are exaggerated. It's an Ok blade but there are betters out there I think.
I sold mine after a while.

[Larry Edgerton]

Recently picked up some Onsruds from the Bay at great prices. Bill

Ha! I bought 72 blades from them when they were clearancing out their stock. You could call me a blade hog.....

Larry

[Todd Burch]

A lot of factors go into getting a smooth cut - it's not just the blade.

Table to blade alignment, blade to fence alignment, operator technique (smoothness and consistency of push, for example) and flatness of stock.

No blade will overcome any shortcomings in the above list.

[scott vroom]

I usually go with this one when looking for a super sharp cut. You oughta see the table.

[Charles Lent]

The blade is only part of the problem. Todd Burch has made some good suggestions and I will add blade runout to his list. Worn arbor bearings, or a slightly bent arbor will cause blade wobble that will prevent you from getting a smooth cut with even the best saw blades. A simple test for blade wobble is to make a partial saw cut in some hardwood and then compare the width of the cut with the width of the blade using a caliper that can measure to thousandths. If the saw cut is wider than the blade tooth width by more than .005" there is blade wobble and you will need to find the source. As Todd said, table to blade, fence to blade alignment, and operator technique also affect the smoothness of cut.

Charley

[Tom Walz]

Forrest has a special grind. As far as I know Jim Forrest developed it and no on else uses it. It has very small side clearance and a rasp effect on the steel. The drawback is that it heats up under continuous cutting. It is an excellent hobby blade but is not generally considered suitable for use as a production blade.

We make custom blades that are application specific. Designing a single blade to do multiple jobs actually works pretty well but is generally not as good a blade devoted to a single task.

Custom built industrial saw blades generally have a 100% satisfaction guarantee.
Another factor in “glass smooth cuts“ is “fiber spring back”. Even the sharpest saw blade will pull the wood fibers a bit during the cutting process. These fibers then “spring back” and create a bit of fuzz. The amount of fuzz depends on the kind and condition of the material.

If you are going to glue or finish the surfaces you may want a slightly fuzzy surface as it is more absorbent. Usually not a problem with wood but we were asked once to build a saw blade where the cuts were not quite so smooth for a plastics gluing application.


+1 for the excellent comments above.

Tom Walz

[Bill White]

Ha! I bought 72 blades from them when they were clearancing out their stock. You could call me a blade hog.....

Larry
OK! Blade hog! Bwahahaha. Whatcha gonna do with all those blades?
I got a glue line ripper and a combo. Sweet blades.
Bill

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Forrest got their reputation by being "first" in the modern carbide blade industry, they are still very good but there are others which are just as good. I am a fan of the Freud Industrial glue line rip but the Forrest WWII w/ 30T although different is also a good blade for "finish" ripping.

I have quite a few Forrest, Freud, Ridge, Infinity and Tenryu blades, all are excellent and each has positives over the next. That said if/when I need another blade I will call Tom at Carbide Processors and get one of these: http://www.carbideprocessors.com/Carbide-Processors/Worlds-Best-Saw-Blades/

The blades that I use most are Forrest, but my intention is to try some of those from Carbide Processors. Every time Tom has made a suggestion, he has been right on the money. As a hobby woodworker, however, it may take a while for me to dull the blades that I am currently using. I gave away my first Forrest blade when I sold my previous table saw, and it is still cutting very well with its new owner. I dropped in my "backup" general purpose blade. Will need to research exactly which blade to buy since there are so many choices (thin, not thin, cut angles, etc.....).

[Larry Edgerton]

Whatcha gonna do with all those blades?
Bill

Ten are 15" blades for my Hitachi chop saw, best blade I have ever had in the saw. Perfect! I do a lot of log work.

I bought six 14" for my Omga RAS. Three dados for the occasion where I have to do something that is going to hurt. The rest are misc. 8.5, 10 and 12 inch. I am never going to retire, so I am pretty much set for blades.

My wife just found all the stacks of blades under the bed. "What are these?" "Retirement plan baby, retirement plan."

Larry

[scott spencer]

Lots of great info being offered....where's Dirk though?

[scott spencer]

?.............

[Jacob Reverb]

A good compromise all-around blade is the Freud LU84M011 50-tooth ATB&R (http://www.amazon.com/Freud-LU84M011-10-Inch-Combination-8-Inch/dp/B00004T7A4/). They also sell a 12" version.

[dirk martin]

Relax, Scott.
Nobody is asking, and certainly not needing my input.
These folks have a lot more smarts in this area, than I do.
Thanks for the input, gang.

[Mac McQuinn]

All things being equal as far as a quality set-up TS, I'd lean towards the Matsushita blades for smoothest finish cut.
Mac

[phil harold]

My wife just found all the stacks of blades under the bed. "What are these?" "Retirement plan baby, retirement plan."

Larry
Sort of the same for me I bought 10 blades!

[Ed Edwards]

Matt,
If you have the TS2000 and particulary the WWII, what's you go to blade for cutting ply??

Ed

[art pfenn]

For the smoothest cut a hollow ground planer blade will do the trick. Start with a cheap one and if you like it go a better one. I have an old Craftsman blade that I always reach for when I want a perfect edge but I don't use it for every day sawing.