Inside curved legs. Spoke shaves ?

[Rick Fisher]

I have a question about spoke shaves.. I have never owned one..

Recently I have been working on a dresser with inside curves on the legs.. Much like you see on many Kernov Cabinets.
The wood is Afromosia and it has been a real bear to finish the legs... The Afromosia is so hard that sanding them is brutal..
The legs are 60" long .. 1" x 1" at the top and 1-3/4" x 1-3/4" at the bottom.. They flare at the bottom ..

Anyway.. I made a jig out of plywood... Removed the waste on the bandsaw and tried to router the rest away.. Ruined 3 legs with tear out .. New bits..
I have a few hand planes and can sharpen them reasonably well.. but they are not the right tool.. I wondered if this was a spoke shave job ?
I have been looking, but don't know what I am really looking at ..

How hard is it to use a spoke shave ? Would a draw knife be a better choice ? what's the difference ? I look at the Lie Nielsen " Boggs " shave and then look at the Lee Valley offering.. I typically wont buy the cheap stuff anymore.. I don't see myself using it on a flat surface, only inside curves.. so do I need a concave shave ?

Not adverse to spending up to $200 for a decent tool.. I find that the wallet pain fades but years later, I still have a decent tool..

For someone who has not used such a tool, but is a long term woodworker who uses chisels, planes and scrapers.... what do you guys suggest ?

[James Owen]

Yes, a spokeshave is the right tool.

A draw knife would also work, but the learning curve is a bit higher because you are directing everything that the drawknife does. Think of a spokeshave as a hand plane with a very short sole.....
You'll probably want a curved sole spokeshave for the inside curves, unless the curves are very gentle. A concave spokeshave is usually used for spindles on chairs, etc.

Which one to buy? You have a lot of choices:

Vintage Stanley: good choice for removing fair amounts of wood quickly -- the mouths are generally fairly open. Will also work for finishing cuts, but maybe not of "uncooperative" woods.

Vintage Preston: great spokeshaves; mouths generally tend to be tighter than the Stanleys; good for finishing cuts.

Lee Valley: excellent spokeshaves; mouths are slightly more open than the Lie-Nielsen, but shims take care of that; good choice for both wood removal and finishing.

Lie-Nielsen: excellent spokeshaves; the small bronze spokeshaves have slightly more open mouths than the Boggs, and are based on the Preston shaves. Mainly a finishing shave. The Boggs is strictly a finishing shave; works very well on all types of grain.

My personal preference is for the the Boggs or the small bronze from LN for finishing cuts, but you won't go wrong with the LN or the LV. The LVs are slightly less expensive than the LN.

*****

Another way to shape your curves is with rasps...but you will have to do some clean-up afterwards.

[Rick Fisher]

Thanks for the response James. Sounds like you are the right guy to ask.

I have a nice set of rasps but the finest is a 10 grain .. I find it still leaves a rough finish. I planned on getting something in the 12 - 13 range for finishing.. If I order a Shave, I will get another rasp as well.

Good info on the shaves.. I am leaning towards the Boggs on your advice. A finer finishing tool would be a good place to start, see if I like it .. I had planned on a Krenov Cabinet as a next project so could see it coming in handy again..

Is the sharpening the same as the hand planes ? I have the LV MK Jig and a bunch of decent stones..

[James Owen]

Yes, the sharpening is essentially the same. The only challenge, sometimes, is holding the iron, since it is so short. I sharpen freehand, so I don't know how well/whether a MK II jig works..... Free-handing it is easy and straight-forward: the bevel is fairly wide, and that makes registration on the stone pretty easy..... A number of people have devised shop-made jigs to make holding spokeshave irons a bit easier; something you may decide you want to do....

The 14 and 15 grain Auriou rasps leave a very nice surface -- almost as clean as one made with an edged tool -- but they are fairly pricey.....

[Carl Beckett]

What about a plane with a convex bottom?

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1313

[Michael Peet]

I don't know how well/whether a MK II jig works.....

I have a couple 51s and the MK II can accommodate the blades.

Mike

[Mark Dorman]

sharpening my spoke shave blade seemed easy by hand. I think because of the wide bevel and short blade. This actually encouraged me to try freehand on bigger blades.

[Tony Shea]

If you do not feel comfortable sharpening the spokeshave by hand and/or not getting good results from it then the Kell honing guide is about the best option for jigged up sharpening. It will handle shorter blades found on spokeshaves very nicely.

Personally I think this should be done by hand, but not everyone is willing to take the time to learn to do it efficiently. I used to sharpen everything by hand and learned a great deal about it, hollow grinds are a real key to free hand. Japanese blades are a bit tougher as a hollow grind is not an option. But of late I have really been happy with the speed of micro bevels using the cheap eclipse style side clamping honing guide with plane blades. I can do this just about as fast as running it over the stones by hand and get super consistent results.

[Jim Koepke]

I don't see myself using it on a flat surface, only inside curves.. so do I need a concave shave ?

If you are working a concave surface you will want a spoke shave with a convex sole.

I find my curved bottom spoke shave, Stanley #63, more useful than my circular plane, Stanley #113, for this kind of work. My flat bottomed shave works well on outside curves, but often that is where the #113 shines.

The Boggs has a 5" radius on the sole. The LN ( http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=SBS ) has a 1-1/2" radius and will get into tighter curves.

jtk

[John McPhail]

This is exactly one of the scenarios I imagined when I bought my Stanley #13 ( I also imagine some day working on rockers with it ).

I would use my turning saw to get close to the line, and use a spoke shave and my #13 to smooth out the irregularities and get to the line.

[Michael Ray Smith]

If you are working a concave surface you will want a spoke shave with a convex sole.

jtk

This is a bit of a personal quirk for me, but I really like the vintage Millers Falls No. 1 "cigar shaves." They're really great on tight inside curves, but I use mine on a lot of different geometries. Downside: They're tricky to sharpen, and replacement blades aren't readily available. From a design perspective, they're actually quite a bit different from most spokeshaves, which have a lot in common with a plane. The MF No. 1 doesn't really have a sole. Usually just the blade and the leading edge of the mouth contact the wood. So it's more like a small guided draw knife than a small plane. But who cares about all that? I like them because the work very, very well in a lot of situations.

[Michael Ray Smith]

As for that design distinction, MF No. 1 isn't unique. The low angle spokeshaves, like the Veritas and its wooden predecessors, have the same type of design -- more in common with a draw knife than with a plane. The MF, however, is the only one of those I can think of with a curved blade and body.

[John McPhail]

Woodjoy makes a brass circular shave.

[Bill Rhodus]

Rick, I have the flat and curved Veritas spokeshaves and they are fine tools, however, I always use a set of carving spokeshaves bought from Lee Valley when making cabriole legs. The 2 piece set was $39 and is an excellent value.