Bandsaw Tuning

[Jerry Thompson]

Here is a great video on bandsaw use.

Band Saw Clinic with Alex Snodgrass - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU&list=FLYDEiGLzvqQNIl-nqvD2OOQ&feature=mh_lolz)

[Van Huskey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU

Direct link.

Be aware although the info is indeed good it is designed to sell Carter products, everything can be done without them though. Not saying the Carter stuff isn't good, I like most of the procuct line.

[Rick Fisher]

Really cool video.. I found it interesting.. Interesting that he said " no bandsaw should have drift if its set up right " ...

[Kevin W Johnson]

Really cool video.. I found it interesting.. Interesting that he said " no bandsaw should have drift if its set up right " ...

I'll admit to being a bandsaw "noob", but isn't drift is also a product of a blade with incorrect set?

The crap blade that came with my Rikon 10-325, would drift seemingly no matter what. Once I put the timberwolf on, all is well. My set-up process for both blades was the same.

[Bob Wingard]

I'll admit to being a bandsaw "noob", but isn't drift is also a product of a blade with incorrect set?


NOPE ... the most expensive, precision ground blade will drift if not properly tracked.

[Myk Rian]

Be aware although the info is indeed good it is designed to sell Carter products,
In that case, I'll not waste my time.

[Mark W Pugh]

Great video for the noob!!!! Like me!

[david paul miller]

I use Mark Duginske set up of blade on center of wheel with good results, the video recommends the teeth at center ? what are y'all using

[Kevin W Johnson]

NOPE ... the most expensive, precision ground blade will drift if not properly tracked.

Yeah, but if the set gets damaged, wont that cause it to drift no matter how well its set up?

[David Hawxhurst]

when i set up my bandsaw following similar procedure and before i understood how to adjust tracking properly i had all kinds of drift problems. now i understand the tracking thing i can use my miter gauge and cut 90 degrees because i don't have drift. i'm a believer in a properly set up and tracked bandsaw will not have any drift. mine doesn't.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

Thanks for posting the link. I don't think it was an infomercial at all. I will probably try some of his tricks. I liked how he determined if the table was square to the blade. I also will try tracking the blade with the deepest part of the gullets in the center. This would help me in particular because adjusting my lower guides front to back is a real pain.
Salem

[Rod Sheridan]

I start there and then adjust the tracking so the saw cuts parallel to the fence..........Rod.

[Bob Wingard]

Yeah, but if the set gets damaged, wont that cause it to drift no matter how well its set up?

Of course it will ... ANY SAW will pull to one side if one side of the bans/blade/chain is dulled or damaged. What is the significance of your question ??? I was stating that a PERFECT blade will drift if installed/setup improperly ... NOT that a setup can/will restore perfect tracking to a damaged blade ... it simply doesn't work that way.

[Kevin W Johnson]

Of course it will ... ANY SAW will pull to one side if one side of the bans/blade/chain is dulled or damaged. What is the significance of your question ??? I was stating that a PERFECT blade will drift if installed/setup improperly ... NOT that a setup can/will restore perfect tracking to a damaged blade ... it simply doesn't work that way.


I know setup is critical, my reply was to the statement "no bandsaw should have drift if its set up right" ... which is correct so long as the blade is true, that's why I mentioned incorrect set ALSO causing drift, (which can't be adjusted for), to which you first replied "NOPE", but now say "of course it will". You simply read my first comment wrong.

[Jerry Thompson]

David;
The video recommends the deepest part of the gullut be at the center.

[ian maybury]

Which interestingly enough doesn't agree with the recommendation in the Agazzani manual which advises tracking that the teeth are to the front of the wheels - which are pretty flat.

I basically buy the thinking that says that a consistent gullet location means that only the thrust bearings need adjusting when changing to differing width blades, and also that consistent location of a given blade on the wheel should end the need to keep on adjusting the fence to tune out drift all else being equal. (on the basis that the position of the blade on the tyre camber determines what direction it's pointing.

I'm a bit less sure that always locating the gullet in the same place will ensure that all blades regardless of presumably width and tooth set will track the same. Anybody got a reason why this may be the case?

Engaging the back of the blade in a saw cut is a nifty way of checking the table is level...

ian

[Rick Fisher]

Ian.. The Aggazani probably has flat tires.. Flat tired saws hang off the front.. On a curved tire, the teeth are not touching the tire..

He was doing the demo on a curved tire..

[Van Huskey]

Short of carbide blades which are precision ground and have no set per se every blade I have ever seen exhibits some level of drift. I personally do NOT consider the angled cut caused by a poorly tuned saw to be drift, but it is symantics. Tune the same then account for blade drift with the fence, I personally don't like the tracking "cheat" to deal with blade drift, the blade is just not happy there and you will have issues, small enough not to notice with many cuts I admit.

[Bob Wingard]

Sorry ... but drift is NOT an inherent physical quality of a blade ... it is the effect of a poor tuneup of the saw ... how you deal with it is your personal choice ... your method just takes longer and is less accurate, but it's still your choice, and you're entitled to it.

[ian maybury]

Ta Rick. That's what I thought, but the guy in the video pitched centreing the gullet as a universal rule.

To take it a step further into the engineering/mechanics of what's going on - which relates to Van H's point too. I think I basically understand how a cambered wheel acts to centre a blade - it's a similar principle to that used on e.g. conveyor belts where the camber on the end rollers also acts to centre the belt. i.e. the geometry acts to generate a centreing force because when the belt moves off line the opposite edge has to climb up the camber - and a component of the resulting additional tension force acts to push the blade/belt back in line.

There's a couple of complicating factors in play though.

The first is that most band saw blades have a set to the teeth which will itself interact with the camber. Centreing (presuming there are no other considerations in play) presumably makes sense in the case of a fairly highly cambered wheel because it may be sufficient to ensure that the blade normally runs with the teeth clear of the tyre surface. Which as well as avoiding tracking complications should reduce tyre wear caused by the teeth too.

The bit I'm less sure about is how flat/low camber wheels act to centre a blade. It's not untypical to run the rollers with zero camber on a short wide belt conveyor - presumably because the extra width delivers a similar but enhanced tensioning and centreing effect if the belt moves out of line to the above. Even without camber.

Maybe this is the reason why flat band saw wheels don't track narrow blades so well, and maybe too (despite what the video said about rubber tyres being best) why on flat wheels where there's not enough camber to keep the teeth clear of the tyre why urethane tyres may a good move on flat wheels to reduce wear.

Running the teeth forward of the tyre on flat wheels should minimise wear, and avoid the set of the teeth messing with tracking.

I have to think our Italian friends have good reason for both urethane tyres, and for running the blade forward on flat tyres (they tend to be highly pragmatic) - but this is all surmise.

Does anybody know the story? From the horses mouth so to speak?

ian

[Bob Wingard]

I'm still watching the video again to determine where he said rubber is better !!! All I can find is "They are both good ... if you use rubber, glue it ... if you use urethane, skip the glue" ... where did he say rubber is superior ???

[Peter Kuhlman]

Blade drift--
About 12 years ago when the traveling Woodworkers Show still acknowledged that Louisiana was part of the USA, the show came to the New Orleans area. Back then they offered real classes that you paid to attend. I took 2 classes from Michael Fortune that day and one was on bandsaws. His focus was primarily crowned wheel saws. Michael was adamant that drift was a non issue. He said all his saws were set up with 90 degree fences and drift was eliminated totally with blade tracking. Then he proceeded to demonstrate that on a couple saws. Now flat wheeled saws may be more of an issue as the teeth are supposed to hang off the edge of the tire but I have no experience with them.

Side note - I will always remember how Michael thought out of the box. He showed how he ran huge structural beams weighing around 1000# through a lunch box planer. It was so simple. Just 2 saw horses. He is just full of so much practical simple knowledge and has such incredible artistic talent.

[Bill White]

Having watched and read a bunch of stuff abt. BSs lately (just bought a G0555LX), I am amazed at all the conflicting info out there. Crown, no crown, center/front of center the blades, bearings, Cool Blocks, ceramic.
My old (and now sold) ShopSmith 11" was so easy to tune and use.
Guess that I'd better read the owner's manual.
Bill

[ian maybury]

Perhaps i took it up wrongly Bob, but I thought he said 'don't replace you rubber tyres with urethane if you are looking for better performance'.

ian

[Bob Wingard]

Now THAT is correct ... he said they perform equally well, but that the urethane will last longer and they should not be glued. At least, that's what I think I heard.

[coloradotrout]

There seems to be two sides to the debate of where to track the blade: 1) overall center of blade in center of tire --or-- 2) deepest part of the gullet in the center of the tire. Michael Fortune recommends #1 and a recent article in FWW referenced that approach. I have used it with good results - with a 3tpi 1/2" blade. Carter, namely Alex Snodgrass recommends #2 (as per the video and the in-person seminars where I have seen him). That does make adjusting the guides easier, as the side guides do not need to be moved. I've been setup like that for awhile, but granted, have only ripped and resawed some 2x4s. It too seems to work ok. Maybe the key is sharp, 3tpi 1/2" blade. Michael Fortune does have a wealth of no nonsense skills - a great find if he happens to be at one of the woodworking shows. Kelly Mehler is simliar. I have not seem them at the woodworking show the past few years though.