New Shop = New Tools! Opinions Needed!

[Jeremy Krohn]

I’m a new member to the forum but have been lurking in the background for about a year, mostly gathering “intel”. For the past 4 years I’ve been doing a variety of woodworking projects with hand me down Craftsman bench top tools in a 9x11 utility room that I share with a furnace and a water heater. The only stationary tool I have is a Delta 17-956 drill press. I have a good collection of hand tools (manual and power).

I will finally have a dedicated 16x36 building completed in November and I can’t wait!! I am looking to pick out stationary tools now so I can finalize my floor plan and electrical design.

Building Specs:
- 16 x 36
- Heated by a natural gas heater
- 100 amp sub panel

My woodworking interests are diverse: building fine quality indoor furniture, outdoor furniture, wooden toys.

I am a Canadian so either need to have equipment shipped from the USA or buy from a local dealer (depending on brand). My stationary tool budget is about maxed at $12K USD (other costs such as freight, taxes, duty etc are above and beyond). Money not spent on stationary tools can be deployed to obtain other workshop “toys” or necessities such as ductwork for the DC.

Ideally I would like:
10” Tablesaw
17” Bandsaw
8” Jointer
15” or 20” Planer
3 HP Dust Collector
Mortising Machine (Stationary or bench top)
Router Table or Shaper
24” Drum Sander

How would YOU allocate the budget to obtain this equipment? I’d like a variety of opinions to consider before making my decision.

I am leaning toward 100% Grizzly equipment as I have several friends with their equipment, all are happy with it. Does anyone know if Grizzly provides discounts for large orders? I want to procure each machine only once (i.e. I do not want to get a 6” jointer now and then in a few years upgrade to an 8”).

Below is the equipment list I am seriously considering:
$1,570 – Grizzly G1023RLX 10” tablesaw with mobile base + inserts
$1,215 – Grizzly G0513X2F 17” bandsaw with mobile base
$1,225 – Grizzly G0490X 8” jointer with spiral heads
$1,625 – Grizzly G0453Z 15” planer with spiral heads. Should I get the 20” straight knife G0454 for the same price?
$1,755 – Grizzly G0441 3 HP Dust Collector with stand & silencer
$1,495 – Grizzly G0448 heavy duty mortising machine
$1,595 – Grizzly G1066R 24” drum sander
$1,000 – Router table w/ router or shaper. What are your suggestions?
$11,480 – Total

I’m looking forward to your opinions.

Thanks,
Jeremy

[Myk Rian]

Have you considered Made in Canada, General tools (not General International), instead of buying Asian made?

[Jeremy Krohn]

I have looked into General, as there is a dealer not far from my home. I believe they may also be in some financial difficulties and closing manufacturing facilities?

I personally don't have any experience with their tools nor do I know anyone that has them (ironic given Quebec manufacturing). After adjusting for the shipping charges incurred from Grizzly the cost difference is about 30-35% more expensive than Grizzly would be for similar equpiment. Taxes are neutral since I would incur the same cost through importing or by buying local.

Do you have any experience with General vs. Grizzly? I'd like to procure all of the equipment outlined above within my budget and welcome any opinions on manufacturers or products you may have. Thanks!

[Paul McGaha]

Welcome to Sawmill Creek Jeremy,

Thats quite the shopping list. Needing multiple tools I can see where Grizzly would be very attractive to you.

If $1000 is the limit I suggest you go with a router table, unless you can find a used shaper.

There will be an expense for the duct and fittings for the dust collector. Surprising how that stuff adds up. I spent about as much in duct work, fittings, accesseries as the machine costs.

If you have some time you might keep an eye out for used tools. Maybe find someone selling his shop and buy the all the tools. Whole Shop sales come up once in a while here where I live.

Good luck with it. Sounds like a huge amount of fun coming your way.

PHM

[Steven Hsieh]

To receive bundle discount , it must be $5,000 at least or more. Most machines are unable to receive discount. Ask for a discount review on your order.

[Michael W. Clark]

Welcome Jeremy. You are in a unique position that I would say that most of us would love to be in.:)

I have a Grizzly 1023 TS and love it, it has served very well. If going Grizzly, I would not recommend buying the smallest or least expensive item in their line-up. I would go to the middle or upper end of their offering, which it looks like you have done. Regarding the purchase of this equipment (there is a lot going on here with the specific models listed and there will be a lot of opinions about different brands), I would approach several manufacturer's with some specifications and equipment list and let them give you a price (delivered to your door) for your shopping list. Pick two or three companies and haggle with them from there. This would be a good size order to them.

The other approach would be to buy a few primary machines, TS, BS, Planer, and Jointer. For $12K, you could spend ~$3K each and get even better/bigger equipment. You could easily come in under the $12K, then buy the other tools as you need them and invest in the quality you think you will need. This would give you some time to look for deals and check out sales. I'm not sure how long you have been doing woodworking, but it is likely your needs/wants will change over time. You may get into turning, veneering, etc. Each of these require some special tools. I would include some type of stationary sander in your list (disk/belt/oscillating spindle, etc), it will come in handy with toys and furniture parts. Good Luck.

Mike

[Myk Rian]

Do you have any experience with General vs. Grizzly? I'd like to procure all of the equipment outlined above within my budget and welcome any opinions on manufacturers or products you may have. Thanks!
No exp. with General, but they always get good reviews. I sold all my Griz tools when I replaced them with vintage machines I restored.
Before buying Griz, I would suggest seeing if they are even in stock. There seems to be a problem with that. Some people have waited months for a shipment. Those boats can be slow.

[Larry Browning]

A bit of advice from someone who has made a couple big mistakes when purchasing high dollar machines. Before purchasing, be sure you will actually use these machine on a regular basis. I think I would approach this by getting the basics first, table saw, jointer, planner, and the DC first (whatever, you already KNOW you will need). Then make a few projects. Did you realize that you never even needed one of those big machines? But there was this other machine that would have really come in handy. Don't make the same mistake I did when I got a big belt/disc sander. I really wished I had spent my money on a nice spindle sander instead. I hardly ever use the thing, but am always wishing I had an the spindle sander every time I use the drill press with the drum in the chuck. You may find that the mortising machine just sits in the corner gathering dust.

[Kevin Bourque]

Jeremy,

Send me the money and I will take care of everything for you.....but if thats not possible why not look for a used, single phase Unisaw with a Biesemeyer fence instead of the Grizzly. I have nothing against Grizzly, but it's hard to beat a Unisaw.

PS. What, no lathe?

[Jeremy Krohn]

Thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated. I have thought about buying some used gear (especially a unisaw) but haven't found a fair deal yet., also don't have room to store it until the shop is built. I would love to buy a whole shop worth of tools in a lot but have not found many listings for this in my area.

If I were to buy in phases would you guys suggest a bandsaw before a jointer and planer?

[Larry Browning]

For me a band saw would come way after the jointer and planer. (I still don't have a real one, just the crappy old Shopsmith attachment.) But that is me, it might make since for you. I think all of this is personal preference. I know that is not much of an answer and doesn't help much. It all really boils down to how you work and what you prefer.

[George Gyulatyan]

$1,225 – Grizzly G0490X 8” jointer with spiral heads

I might go with the G0490 8" jointer with straight knives and spend the extra $400 or so on a ceiling mounted air filter or two.

[Sam Murdoch]

My first question - what kind of woodworking do you intend to do? Your answer might impact our answers. In consideration of my first question I'm inclined to be in complete agreement with Larry Browning's two posts. Finally, if you can spend $ 1,000.00 on a router table - I'd encourage you to think of a Jet 1-1/2 hp shaper http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=safari&rls=en&q=Jet+shaper&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=9331317562545456623&sa=X&ei=E03RT_PEIcqM6QHbgYGlAw&ved=0CLgBEPICMAA#ps-sellers More stable, more cutter options, easier adjustments and you aren't tying up a router. Anyway, let us know more and we may have more/better advice to offer.

[Cary Falk]

I have the G1023RL, G0513X2, G0453Z, G0441, and the Shop Fox 1741(same as the G0490) and love every one of them. I didn't see a drill press on your list. I think vintage is best for this or if you want new the 18" Delta is a winner. I had an old Unisaw and I traded it in because it had poor dust collection and no riving knife. Something to think about. Cary

[Kevin Bourque]

Table saw and jointer are usually the first tools a woodworker will buy. The rest depends on what kind of stuff you plan on making.

[gary Zimmel]

Welcome to the Creek Jeremy.
If I was to start over and had a 12 grand budget I would take the money budgeted for the mortiser, drum sander, and shaper and put it into the table saw budget.
My new shop would be built around a SawStop.. JMHO.
A good 8"jointer and 15" planer with shelix heads in them would be next.

[Dave Lehnert]

Have you considered Made in Canada, General tools (not General International), instead of buying Asian made?

Been reported that General woodworking tools (Made in Canada) is closing down production. Will only provide the General International line going forward.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

Although unisaws are nice I held out for a saw with a riving knife. I bought a G0691 and it has been worth the asking price.

I would look used for the bandsaw, jointer and planer. But if you can't find a used planer with a spiral head buy it new: they are worth it!!
Salem

[Jeremy Krohn]

My first question - what kind of woodworking do you intend to do? Your answer might impact our answers. In consideration of my first question I'm inclined to be in complete agreement with Larry Browning's two posts. Finally, if you can spend $ 1,000.00 on a router table - I'd encourage you to think of a Jet 1-1/2 hp shaper http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=safari&rls=en&q=Jet+shaper&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=9331317562545456623&sa=X&ei=E03RT_PEIcqM6QHbgYGlAw&ved=0CLgBEPICMAA#ps-sellers More stable, more cutter options, easier adjustments and you aren't tying up a router. Anyway, let us know more and we may have more/better advice to offer.

Various projects but mainly furniture and some wooden toys.

[Jeremy Krohn]

Welcome to the Creek Jeremy.
My new shop would be built around a SawStop.. JMHO.
A good 8"jointer and 15" planer with shelix heads in them would be next.

Something to consider. What planer and jointer do you have? Do the positive aspects of a a 15" shelix outweigh the benefit of a 20" straight knife in your opinion?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

If you know people that own specific Grizzly products, that may help in that your friends will know the idiosynchrasies of those products. I might first consider what is important to me before make a specific decision. For example, a few items were very high on my list:

Dust collection must be very good. It seemed that the cabinet saws usually had better dust collection so that is what I bought.

Safe, very very safe. For me, this means that I did not want the motor hanging off the back of the saw and I also liked the SawStop blade stopping capability.

You get the idea..... Will you ever resaw? If so, you probably want some good capacity on the band saw. I built my own router table into the side table on the table saw. It was very fast and easy to do (and I am not that talented).

[Ray Newman]

Jeremy: a few questions first. Some of this you may have already considered, but did not specifically mention it.

Your building of 16x36 feet -- is that open floor space or outside overall dimensions? I ask because you desire some equipment with large footprints. Add a workbench, assembly table/area, possibly a cut off table for the table saw, storage for lumber and supplies, finishing, etc., you may become cramped for space. The large room in my residence and it is18x32 feet. Reviewing your equipment list vis-a-vis this room, I have a feeling that it will get cramped.

Make a very large scale drawing of the shop open floor space, including windows and doors, then make scale cut outs of the tool footprints to obtain a better idea of what and which tools will work better.

As for the shop construction, install the maximum amount of insulation possible. My detached shop, built in 2001, has R-21 wall insulation instead of R-19 required by code. Also upped the insulation in the roof. It has more than paid for itself in terms of comfort and heating costs. Same with windows. Quality windows become very inexpensive over their lifespan. One thing about windows: when placed higher up they keep out a miscreant's prying eyes and afford useable space below. Depending upon where you live, a security system might also be worthwhile.

Now to the specific tooling. Pay particular attention to Larry Browning’s two excellent posts. First: the best table saw possible! If I was shopping for a new table saw, I would seriously consider the Saw Stop for the safety aspect. Next , 8” jointer and 12” or 15” planer. Also pay particular attention to Larry Browning’s two excellent posts. When my old de Walt 12“ planner was not worth repairing, I bought a 15“ unit. Looking back now, another 12“ would have served just as well. A very efficient dust collector is a must. Especially since the shop will be closed up in the winter. Did I mention Larry Browning’s two posts?

As for shaper vs. router, see “Router or shaper“ at:
http://patwarner.com/router_or_shaper.html

Shapers are wonderful machines, but the tooling/cutters is not exactly inexpensive. A large router dedicated to router table use just might be better and more versatile.

Do you plan on running any air tools? Save room for a compressor. I spray via HVLP and water based products. On a warm day, 2 coats sanding sealer and 3 top coats are easily done.

[Carl Beckett]

Ok, I will chime in (without over analyzing) on the list. I helped my step father through this same process when he retired (you know, its pretty fun to walk into a shop and say you will take one of those... and one of those..... and that...... etc etc)

1) Tablesaw. Personally, I would buy a SawStop. But a riving knife at a minimum. And be sure to get some zero clearance inserts

2) Jointer. An 8" grizzly, fine. Actually, thats a fantastic jointer to start with!

3) Planer. I personally like the 15" jet I have, its been a workhorse

3.5) Dust collection (I added this in.... it can go at different priorities depending on how you feel about it)

4) Router table. Aiiii.... so many different ways to do this, but I find it gets used a lot.

Then clamps, clamps, blades, bits, some hand tools (hand planes, saws), electric hand tools (ROS, router, belt sander, Jig saw, etc etc), WOOD, WOOD, WOOD.

Pause..... MAKE A BUNCH OF STUFF....... including a WORKBENCH..... then consider:

5) Bandsaw.

6) Drum sander

7) More hand tools (and maybe you decide you are a neander and sell all the above?)

8) scroll saw (because you find out you like designs that require this)

9) lathe

etc etc etc. (specialized equipment for canoe building, or veneering, if thats what it turns out you like to do)

Im just echoing the advice to start with the basics, and then add as you determine what you need for the projects you want to do. If its possible to hold some $$ back for future consideration, do that. If not then go with some basics.

[Larry Browning]

Carl,
This is an awesome post! I like the way you organized it. Especially the idea of spending time accumulating clamps and other small shop tools (get an ROS for sure!). You should give this area lots of consideration. +1 on the making of the workbench. I also might add making your own router table to the list of MAKE A BUNCH OF STUFF! This is a very fun project.
Heck, you could go on for years and never make anything but shop stuff. Of course SWMBO might get a little testy after a while!

[Steve Griffin]

Couple random thoughts while I wake up this morning:

-Drum sander, while nice, is by far the easiest tool on your list to live without. How often to do plan on making drums anyway? :) Seriously, a 6" orbital hooked to a dedicated vacume would work well for hobbiest.

-Work bench. I always like to post my opinion, because it differs than many others. To me, the perfect size is 4x8 on wheels with storage underneath. I make mine out of floor joists and 4x4 and keep a piece of 1/4" melamine on top. This is a workspace, not an altar.

-Cluster your big machines in a circle around the dust collection. Remember, you don't need to align each machine perfectly square to the shop walls--sometimes angled works best. Try to share infeed and outfeed working zones between machines to save floorspace. Maybe line up planer/jointer with a door in case you need to mill an occasional really long piece.

-Miter saw is really important tool, as cross cutting is maybe the most common operation. This is a tool I like near the workbench, as you often are staging parts and making parts that go directly to a project. Also, a stop system like Kregs is an absolute must. (You wouldn't like a table saw with out a indexed fence would you?)

-Sheet good storage--vertical about 9' from front of table saw. You can then cut a sheet without ever having to fully lift it. --Slide it out, tilt down to the saw, rotate flat and rip away.

-Table saw mobile base? This is the last tool I'd like a mobile base on. You got outfeed table, storage cabinet for blades, connection to 220 and dust. Pick a good spot and be done with it.

Good luck and have fun!

[mreza Salav]

Welcome to SMC

Some good advice so far. One think I'd suggest you to consider is combo machines. You'd get better quality/brand machines for often very close to the budget you have.
For instance, you might be able to get a 12" J/P combo for the price of an 8" J + 15" planer.
I would seriously consider a more advanced tablesaw. I own a Sawstop and am quite happy. If I were you, I'd seriously consider a small slider with perhaps a shaper built in
(that way you can get a slot mortising attachment if you wan). Your budget for DC (including pipes/fittings) and air filteration will grow very easily.
I would not buy a mortising machine so soon, same with drum sander even though I have one (wait and see if you really need one).

[Don Jarvie]

It might be worth your while to talk to the General dealer. If their getting rid of the line they may also be discounting some of the tools.

I'd start with
Table Saw - Good one
Planer
Jointer - min 8 inches, 12 would be better
Dust collection

Then decide on what you need. Its nice to have the shop fund to go buy what you need.

[Eric DeSilva]

I liked the suggestion to think about used--I picked up a Unisaw w/50" Bies Fence, 8" Grizz jointer, 15" Grizz planer, 3HP Jet shaper, and Bridgewood floorstanding mortiser in used (but very very good condition) and would have saved well over $4K beyond the prices you have for similar pieces on your list. Takes some time to find the right deals, but start getting in the habit of looking at CL every day and see whether you think it might happen.

For me your question is an interesting exercise in "what would I have done differently," so I'll answer that way.

First I'd buy a Hammer or Felder sliding TS. I wasn't shopping for one when I started, and it is sort of irrelevant, since there is no way I could get one in my basement, but if I had a standalone shop like you, that would be #1 on my list.

Next I'd buy a jointer and planer. I'm fine with my second hand 8" jointer and 15" planer from Grizz. The combo machines seem attractive, but I like having standalone units so I can go back and forth with no real work.

Third would be setting up a good cyclone and dust collection system. With a planer, you will need one. I've been happy with my JDS. If I was starting from scratch with a standalone building, I'd be thinking about a separate enclosure, baffling, and venting outside.

Fourth would be some smaller stuff--I would definitely re-buy my Festool 5" ROS, my CT22, and my big Festool router. I'd also buy some Festool guides and I do like my Domino. And a pile of Jet parallel clamps. While none of those are big floorstanding machines, they all have pricetags that feel like they should be.

Fifth would be a bandsaw. I never liked the 14" PM that I found second hand, but love love love my Laguna 14SUV. I'd buy another 14SUV in a heartbeat.

I use my shaper and my mortiser, but, honest to god, I think I'd find ways around using them if I didn't have 'em. If I was doing a lot of mission furniture, the mortiser would probably be back on the list, but heck, I think I only paid $380 for it--less than a $1/pound.

[Jeremy Krohn]

Welcome to SMC

Some good advice so far. One think I'd suggest you to consider is combo machines. You'd get better quality/brand machines for often very close to the budget you have.
For instance, you might be able to get a 12" J/P combo for the price of an 8" J + 15" planer.
I would seriously consider a more advanced tablesaw. I own a Sawstop and am quite happy. If I were you, I'd seriously consider a small slider with perhaps a shaper built in
(that way you can get a slot mortising attachment if you wan). Your budget for DC (including pipes/fittings) and air filteration will grow very easily.
I would not buy a mortising machine so soon, same with drum sander even though I have one (wait and see if you really need one).

Any suggestions on combo models? Do you have one? My preference to date has been individual machines.

[Jeremy Krohn]

It might be worth your while to talk to the General dealer. If their getting rid of the line they may also be discounting some of the tools.

I'd start with
Table Saw - Good one
Planer
Jointer - min 8 inches, 12 would be better
Dust collection

Then decide on what you need. Its nice to have the shop fund to go buy what you need.

This combination of up front purchases seems to be the common suggestion. I think I'll stop into the General dealer near my house to talk this weekend. It may be worth considering if there are going to be discontinuing ( offset by the fact they may be defunct, possible losing warranty coverages etc).

[Jeremy Krohn]

Thanks for all the posts, this seems to be turning in the direction I was hoping with a lot of various opinions and suggestions.
Based on your feedback I may defer some upfront purchases (i.e. mortiser, drum sander, and shaper) for now and reserve those funds. I think I may kick some tires and do more research this weekend! I want to get good quality equipment but at the same time balance what I think is realistically needed as a hobbyist. That is the tough part!

I appreciate the comments you have all provided to date!

[Jeremy Krohn]

Couple random thoughts while I wake up this morning:

-Drum sander, while nice, is by far the easiest tool on your list to live without. How often to do plan on making drums anyway? :) Seriously, a 6" orbital hooked to a dedicated vacume would work well for hobbiest.

-Work bench. I always like to post my opinion, because it differs than many others. To me, the perfect size is 4x8 on wheels with storage underneath. I make mine out of floor joists and 4x4 and keep a piece of 1/4" melamine on top. This is a workspace, not an altar.

-Cluster your big machines in a circle around the dust collection. Remember, you don't need to align each machine perfectly square to the shop walls--sometimes angled works best. Try to share infeed and outfeed working zones between machines to save floorspace. Maybe line up planer/jointer with a door in case you need to mill an occasional really long piece.

-Miter saw is really important tool, as cross cutting is maybe the most common operation. This is a tool I like near the workbench, as you often are staging parts and making parts that go directly to a project. Also, a stop system like Kregs is an absolute must. (You wouldn't like a table saw with out a indexed fence would you?)

-Sheet good storage--vertical about 9' from front of table saw. You can then cut a sheet without ever having to fully lift it. --Slide it out, tilt down to the saw, rotate flat and rip away.

-Table saw mobile base? This is the last tool I'd like a mobile base on. You got outfeed table, storage cabinet for blades, connection to 220 and dust. Pick a good spot and be done with it.

Good luck and have fun!

I have a 10" Bosch dual bevel, left that off my post. I'm so accustomed to moving tools I wanted everything mobile just in case.

[Joe Mioux]

I will throw in my thoughts.... Saw number 1, then planer, then router table. You can joint with a planer if you use a sled. it works fine, just a bit slower. The router table is a versatile machine and you can make mortises with it. As budget permits then a band saw....

Dust collection should be considered as part of your building.

[michael osadchuk]

Jeremy,

I suggest you BUY NOTHING until your workshop is completed in November....... unless you come across a machine that you are absolutely confident you will be happy with and at increditable price.

I assume you are not going to be using the new machines until your new workshop is built.... if you buy now (save for the "you suck" increditable buys) you have the problem of storing it during which you likely will have changed your mind about what to buy and have 'buyer's remorse' without even had the pleasure of using the machine(s).

I don't think that by November the economy is going to get significantly better (will probably grind along at this trough or worse) and there will continue to be great deals, both retail and privately, along the way toward November and beyond.

The more clarity you develp about what your interests the better the advice you will receive and your certain your purchases will be.

Regarding sales what typically comes up for sale (look at the Canadian woodworking forum, local kijiis, etc.), what others have recommended, develop over time and time an ever more confident list of what machines you will be happy with...... you would be surprised that over a six month period some increditable private sales come up and if you know what you want, have the money in hand and are prepared to act fact, you will be in "you suck" territory. (this approach can be just as much fun as looking at new machine catelogs - smiley)

I also agree with others - based on the relative lack of detail of your interests - to concentrate a core set of machines (tablesaw, jointer, planer, routertable - this last can be built into the side table of your tablesaw).
And build a great workbench (if you don't already have one) as part of these initial major shop tools.

good luck

michael

[Michael W. Clark]

Jeremy,
It sounds like you are going the route of major tools first, determine your needs, then add as required. I think this is a smart move. Even buying a few of these machines at one time is going to be a sizeable price tag. If you are buying new, you might also check any woodworking dealers near you to see what kind of deals they could make you. For example, there is a Rockler and Woodcraft near me, and I am sure they would be more than happy to discuss pricing if buying several pieces of stationary equipment at once. If nothing else, they have rewards programs that could possibly be put toward other items/accessories you need.

Another outlet for tools is used woodworking equipment dealers. You are not going to get the steller prices like you will from CL or auctions, but it will be heavily discounted from retail. They also have a network where they can get used equipment someone in their network may have (kind of like car dealers locating you a car at another dealership). They would probably negotiate with you if buying several machines like you are planning.

My preference would be as follows based on my woodworking, but yours may be different:
TS - at least with Riving Knife, possibly Sawstop or slider depending on $$ and preference
Planer - 15"+ with shelix, steel serrated feed rollers, cast iron infeed/outfeed tables (no rollers for me, these are finger pinchers on the outfeed)
Jointer - 8"+ I would look used and vintage, they are way-cool looking and old arn certainly is nice, but so is the 8" Griz, I see 12" and 16" for less money than some of the new 8" machines
Router Table - 3HP+ with lift - build your top and cabinet using the above three tools
Dust Collection - part of building as stated above, just as necessary as electricity in my opinion - 3HP with cyclone and Wynn filters - you'll want to return air to the shop living in Canada unless you intend to work only in the summers or you have your own natural gas well.

Just my opinion. I didn't do it this way, but looking back and knowing what I know now, and based on my "current" work practices, this is the path I would take. Depening on your work practices, one could make a strong argument for a bandsaw as a next purchase or as part of the above list.

Mike

[Mike Johnson]

One possibility no one else has suggested would be a used Robland X-31 combo machine. That way you get a 10" sliding table saw, 12"jointer, 12" planer, mortiser and also a shaper, probably for under $5000. Although the Robland is the least expensive of the European combos, I have been very happy with mine. I almost never use the shaper, but the other four functions work really well. Add a good band saw and a router table, and you can do about any operation you will need. If you want to splurge with the extra money, a 38" drum sander is a rel labor saver. Onida makes a great dust collection system that can handle all of the machines mentioned here.

Good luck with the project. You will be thrilled with the new shop.

[Jeff Bartley]

Jeremy, the best advice I can offer is to make some woodworking friends, visit some shops, even check out some of the larger mill shops. Seeing some of these tools in person in a working shop is invaluable to building and designing your own shop. I've found shops to be as individual as the folks that use them so see as many as you can!
And when have your final list: have a fantastic time on that shopping spree! Take some pictures!

[mreza Salav]

Any suggestions on combo models? Do you have one? My preference to date has been individual machines.

I'd suggest combo machines from European brands: Hammer (from Felder) offers good value for hobby woodworkers. Minimax is also another good one (which I think is heavier, like Felder).
I have a 14" Minimax J/P. I was thinking of getting an 8" J + 15" P but I realized I come across a lot more >8" boards (to join) but rarely need to plane anything larger than 12"
(as an example I am in the middle of a project and almost all the boards I have are >8", mostly in the range of 10"-12" wide).
If you have the space and can afford larger than 8" jointer I'd say get separate machines but I'd pick a 12" (or larger) J/P over an 8" J + 15" Planer.
If you plan ahead your tasks (e.g. doing all jointing then all the planing) the change over time isn't a big deal, unless you are in a commercial shop.

[Rick Fisher]

Hey Jeremy ..

One thing to consider in Canada is CSA .. It can be an issue, but may not in a home shop.. Its a legal / Insurance thing in Canuckistan .. lol

Check to see that the Grizz stuff is CSA .. If your a rule breaker... go for it .. if your concerned, check with the local electrical inspector.

I start with a bench .. Then get clamps.. Get good ones.. Jorgensen, Bessey .. Jet .. Whichever you like.. but pick a brand and try to stick with it..

I have a few General International Machines and a few Shop Fox machines.. There is no difference in my opinion in the quality.. ( Shop fox and Grizzly are the same company ) General Canadian is far superior, but horribly expensive. Really sorry to hear they are closing ..

To me, the 4 basic tools are a Tablesaw, Jointer, Planer and Bandsaw. Great starting point.. A router table is awesome.. The benefit of a router table over a shaper is the cost of the cutters.. There are benefits to a shaper as well. I have both and use the RT way more.

I would look for used .. The machines are simple and you will be pulling wrenches regardless of buying used or new.. lol . Owning woodworking machinery means having to pull wrenches from time to time..

Leave some room in the budget for wood..

[Matt Meiser]

There's tons of good opinions in this thread. You can get some great deals on equipment used IF you can find it in your area. You can get some incredible deals on equipment in need of restoration. IF you want to do that and IF you can find it in your area.

I've got to agree with the poster who said you are going to quickly become cramped for space. I've got about 40% more space than you and my shop can become cramped. I'm trying to figure out how to squeeze in a small metal lathe I'm inheriting from my dad. I already banished my daughter's mini lathe to the basement. Your list doesn't have any storage or work surfaces which will have a bigger footprint than any of the machines. Lumber storage will take 10' or so of wall space out of contention in most shops.

I would absolutely go with spiral heads. With an 8" jointer, there's not a ton of point in a 20" planer IMHO. I have a J/P combo which gives me a 12" planer and 12" jointer. I'm loving mine (a Jet BTW.)

I have a variant of that band saw--love it. Plan to at least a few hundred more on blades (Timberwolf are great, a Resaw King from Laguna is awesome!)

I have that dust collector. I'd forgo the stand and wall mount it. Get the drum liner kit instead. Plan to spend at least that much more on ductwork. At least...

Mortiser--depending on what you are building, look at a Domino for similar money. It won't do big mortises but if I'm finding the few large mortises I need I can use a forstner in the DP followed by a chisel. Or make a router jig.

Sander. That machine doesn't get particularly glowing reviews. Check out the General International dual drum machine. Really nice looking machine. I was ->||<- this close to buying one, ended up going with a Jet 16-32 because I just couldn't justify the space or cost for as little as I need a big machine. Plan to spend a couple hundred on abrasives.

Router table--look at the offerings from Woodpecker. Nice, US-made stuff. Add several hundred for good bits. If you go with a shaper plan to spend several hundred more for cutters. I'd start with the router table.

[Keith Hankins]

Man, nice budget. I own some grizzly stuff. I have the 1023slx, the 17"hd bs, 12" jointer, and horizontal boring machine. I've had all of it a long time and it is ok. Looking back now and I built my shop over 20 years a little at a time, here is what I reccomend to you as someone who's been there done that. Look at some old american iron There is a forum out there with all the people and knowledge to help you and trust me what was made back when blows away the stuff of today. By doing so, you not only save money and maximise your investment, but it will free up cash for other things like a few thou bf of nice lumber. I've got my griz set up for resaw with a laguna carbide blade and bought a first year delta 14" bs for small cutting for 225 bucks and its a wonderful heavy heavy machine. Makes other 14" around look like a toy. I've seen large 30" tanowitz go for songs. I bought a huge northfield planer for 1500 from the 70's that is just a beast. Seen some battleship of planers go for 1200 that were 16" monsters. You get the trend. Now one other reccomendation I'll make to you. Go ahead and invest and get 3 phase power (RPC) and you will find that 3 phase equipment to be cheaper and the motors last lifetimes. Maybe consider the sawstop just due to the safety but other than that go old. I've got an old walkerturner 16" bandsaw I'm replacing the bearings on right now and when done I'll have 250 in it, and it weighs in at close to a 1000 lbs. Again I own griz and its ok been running most of it for over 7 years, but I wish someone had informed me about the availability of old american iron a long time ago, I could have done better and saved a bunch of money. Any if you want to check it out http://www.owwm.org/index.php

You could not ask for a better group of guys to help you out.

PS go ahead and spring for a 5hp TS you wont regret it. My 3 does a good job but grunts a lot on 12/4 stuff. It's not that big a differnce to jump to the next level.

[Andrew Joiner]

Based on your feedback I may defer some upfront purchases (i.e. mortiser, drum sander, and shaper) for now and reserve those funds. I think I may kick some tires and do more research this weekend! I want to get good quality equipment but at the same time balance what I think is realistically needed as a hobbyist. That is the tough part!



Jeremy,
First thing I would is make a scale drawing of your floor plan. Then make cardboard cut-outs of the machines you want to the same scale size. Most important ,make a scale size piece of stock the biggest you will work. Also make a cutout for material storage, this may take up more space than any machine. For me I can cut up 12' long lumber and 4x8 sheet goods without rearranging my shop.

Then arrange your machine cut-outs. Visualize how you will work. Be so you have room for your scale size piece of stock to clear the walls and the other (taller) machines as you process it through your machines.

You will learn a lot about what you can fit into 16'x36'.

[Dave Sims]

I decided to go with Grizzly machines last month. I am still setting everything up and running 220 to the garage. I drove to the PA facility and purchased:

G691 with the long rails, both mobile bases and slider. I got the mobile bases for ease of initial placement. I think I wasted money on the mobile base extension. (1023 has been out of stock for awhile) I havent had the heart to cut my shiney new 7' rails to mount the slider attachment yet.

The cord was only 6' long and I had to replace it with a longer cord to reach the nearest wall for power. Saw came with a 14g cord, seemed kinda wimpy for 20 amp 220v tool so I put on a 12g 10' cord and matched the plug/receptacle 6-20 with what the jointer/planer recommends to keep things consistant.

G453px I think the dust hood is poorly designed. I am going to try to fabricate something for a 6" inlet and have the port oriented vertically rather than horizontal, which calls for a 90* bend to catch over head collection. The cord was too short to reach nearest wall for power, I replaced cord with a 12' 12g power cord.

G1066z My unit came without hardware and have been waiting awhile to get the correct hardware. Got the mobile base and extensions to fit this unit.

G656px Impulse buy. I have a perfectly fine ridgid 6" jointer. I hate fiddling with straight blades. I like how the jointer and planer take same cutters. In reality I think I should have saved money and bought the straight cut 8", since you send both sides through the spiral planer. Kind of makes the spiral jointer worthless.

G443 I wanted the 2hp dc, but specs say it is 93.5" tall and my ceilings are just under 8". I didn't know if the motor vent pretty much touching the ceiling would restrict ventilation causing it to over heat. Now that I have the 443 together and am praying it is powerful enough, I think the G440 could probably have been lowered some and just intruded on the flex connection space to the drum. Definently regret this purchase.

G572 unit so poorly manufactured that the fan scapes its housing and squeals. Waiting for shipping label for replacement.


Overall finish on machines is poor in my opinion. Many paint chips.