Having some oak and beech trees taken down

[Prashun Patel]

I'm having these 4 trees taken down this summer. The beech is about 30" dia and 2 of the oaks about are 18-20". Looking for advice on how/whether to salvage the lumber. There's a local sawyer with a portable mill that'll come on site.

My plan:

Beech: Lower 24 feet: flitch slabbed into wide boards 8/4 and 12/4.
Oak: QS'd into 5/4.

I'll save the wider crotch areas on the beech for turning blanks.

I'm planning to sticker and dry on site.

Anything else to think about? Bad idea?

[Howard Acheson]

The number one thing to do is to immediately end coat the logs you will be keeping. AnchorSeal is the best product. Apply it within a couple of hours of bucking the logs to length. If you wait more than a few hours, they may be already damaged.

[Kevin Bourque]

We had a portable sawmill come here about 6 months ago. We had some big walnut logs, some white oak, and a bunch of ash logs. The sawmill guy had some great advice on how to cut up the logs to get the most usable boards. The most important part is how you dry the boards. It is imperative that you seal the ends of the boards and sticker & stack them properly. We were told to use aluminumized roof coating;the same stuff you use to fix roofs on trailer homes, etc. Home Depot had it in 5 gallon cans for a very reasonable price. If you just stack up the boards improperly you will get long end checks after a few months. I was looking at the stack just last week and it looks beautiful!

We have a huge beech tree that fell a while back and a humungous white oak that fell too. We will probably get the sawmill guy back later next month to cut it up for us.

FWIW: he charges us about $500 a day for his services.

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks.

Howard, I'm one step ahead of you. I've learned the hard way that logs need Anchorseal immediately. As an avid green wood turner, I'm already armed with a few gallons and a paintbrush.

Kevin, yup, that's about what he says he'll charge.

Beech and oak unfortunately are not the most interesting lumbers for me; so this'll be for sentimental reasons.

[Brian Brightwell]

I have had several thousand feet custom sawed and never bothered sealing the ends. Is it really worth the effort.

[Brian Brightwell]

I have had a lot of logs sawed. The mistake I think I made early on was trying to get good wood out of a so so log.
If its not good stuff don't waste the money having it sawed.

[Scott T Smith]

Prashun, I think that you're on the right track. A few things that I would suggest:

1 - take out the trees as late in the year as you can, because you will have less potential for drying damage if you start the process when the weather is cooler. Personally I would suggest October / November timeframe if you can wait that long.

2 - Prepare your drying area in advance.

3 - Use DRY stickers. It's ok to cut up plywood or 2 x 4's, just be sure that they are dry. Typical sticker thickness is 3/4", typical width is either 3/4 or 1-1/4".

4 - Sticker the same day as milling. I would suggest no greater than 18" centers between stickers. The "ratchet strap" method is probably your best bet for maximizing yield of flat, straight lumber.

5 - With respect to quartersawing the oak, when you QS with a band mill typically the first 4 boards have pithwood (juvenile wood) running along one edge. This in turn will cause the board to crook as it dries. It would be best if your sawyer could edge the pith wood off (only required on the first few boards of the quarter).

6 - QS Oak shrinks about 2X in thickness compared with flatsawn oak (around 12%). Thus, if you want to net out 5/4 rough sawn boards after drying, your miller will need to mill them at at least 1-3/8". Most millers do not understand the drying rate difference for QS, so they might tell you that "gee, I've never milled it that way before", or something similar.

7 - A high quality end sealer - such as Anchor Seal Classic (stay away from the II) or Bailey's End Sealer will provide the correct amount of protection (two coats), and not harm your shop equipment. Other options, such as roof coatings, latex paint, etc, have the potential to damage your shop equipment if you don't trim the ends of the boards before processing. A 5 gallon pail of either Bailey's or Anchorseal Classic will set you back around 80 bucks. If you buy the classic, spend a few extra bucks and purchase the "Winter" forumula. It's good to use all year round, and won't go bad if it freezes in the winter. Put on multiple coats ASAP after felling and bucking the trees.

8- Based upon the size of your logs as well as the way that most band millers QS, you will probably net out around 40% as QS, about 40% as RS, and the remainder as FS.

9 - Find a band miller that is familiar with milling "for grade", and not just "yield". The grade millers will produce a product that is much more suitable for furniture making. Also try to find one who is familiar with quartersawing - not all millers are competant in this area.

10- For the highest quantity and grade of QS, your miller will need to center the pith on the log both ways on his mill. Many of them will only center one way (partial taper sawing), which reduces the quality and quantity of QS.

[Kevin Bourque]

I have had a lot of logs sawed. The mistake I think I made early on was trying to get good wood out of a so so log.
If its not good stuff don't waste the money having it sawed.

Agreed! We had a nasty walnut log that was partially rotten on the inside and we tried to get what we could out of it.

Long story short:We ended up with some really pretty firewood scraps.

[Prashun Patel]

Great info, thanks, All. Scott, you have me thinking that harvesting the oaks for QS is going to result in very little usable lumber for the amount of work required. It seems a shame since there are very few branches on the lower 1/2 of these oaks, which makes me think it should be pretty straight and decent inside...?

Would I be better off just having this flatsawn?

[Todd Burch]

In my opinion, flat sawing your own oak is not worth the effort. With the sawing, the drying, the defects you'll get from air drying - it makes the street price of FS oak very reasonable, and you don't have to lift a finger, and they store it for you until you need it to boot!

[Frank Drew]

Excellent advice given above.

If you have the oak flitch sawn you will get some quartered material around the middle of the logs in addition to rift and flat grain.

[Todd Burch]

Excellent advice given by Howard, Kevin and Scott.


So, Brian - you feeling like I do right now? Kind of like standing at the door on Halloween, and everybody gets candy in their bags, but us?

Or, "Hey! SO good to see all you wonderful people! Oh, Hi Todd".

;)

[Prashun Patel]

Todd, don't take it personally. I feel the same way sometimes. I value yr advice on this and other threads. Msure Fred meant no disrespect to you. Maybe to Brian, but not you ;)

[Todd Burch]

Last edited by Frank Drew; Today at 6:33 PM. Reason: Hurt feelings.

Hey Frank - no feelings hurt - just pulling your chain.

[Baxter Smith]

Spalted beech can be a long way from "uninteresting". :)

[Danny Hamsley]

I would suggest that on the oak that you cut a mix of thicknesses to give you versatility when using it in projects. I would think about cutting some 8/4 to complement the 5/4, but cut the 8/4 from the best part of the log. It is easier to deal with lower grade and defects with the thinner stock rather than the thicker stock. Sound like a fun project. I love sawing oak, especially white oak. Of course, Scott Smith is the White Oak Whisperer!

[Jim Galvin]

For the beech tree why not have some of it sawn up quartersawn for plane blanks, I heard drying beech is tricky but quartersawn beech in thicker sizes say 10/4 12/4 is hard to find

[Carl Beckett]

I have done this ..... a few times now. (Red oak, Elm, Cherry, Beech (spalted), more oak, Maple). My experiences:

Red oak is... red oak. It seems to be plentiful and not all that expensive. Im not a big fan of making furniture with it - but I just had it flat sawn and use it when I need a board. Give some away. Someone has a project and I can donate the lumber, etc. (note I got a lot of this for free, and even with the sawing it ended up being under $.50 / bf.

The Beech I used for some furniture. The guy that had it slashed the price because there was so much 'bad' stuff. Which put it at firewood pricing. I made a couple dressers from it, and the 'bad' parts were some nicely spalted material. Again just flat sawn.

I tried quarter sawing the Maple. This meant a low yield, and narrow boards. Unless you have a really big dia tree in a material thats interesting, I wouldnt bother with it. Do note that when flat sawing the center boards will be quarter sawn.....

The Elm was a throw in to some of the others and modest quality at best. But - I made a really nice Roubo workbench out of it (after cussing and swearing at all the internal stresses... a lot)

For drying I have done some just stacked and stickered outside. Also I have a loft in my (unheated) shop, and the batches I stacked/stickered there seemed to do better. Other batches I have stacked/stickered in an unheated barn (with cement floor). The batches kept inside stayed cleaner and less staining, which was nice on planer blades (nothing like dirt/grit to dull planer blades quickly)

Some I painted the ends, some I didnt. Everything checked to some degree or another. The first month seemed to always have the most movement, but I have always had it sawn in the Winter or late late Fall. The cooler weather seemed to slow evaporation rates. (And at least one of these batches were quite frozen when stacked... so no idea the effect of this but didnt seem to be a problem).

I like to have them saw 50% in 4/4, 25% in 6/4, and 25% in 8/4. This gives a mix, and also can be resawn to whatever thickness I like for a particular project (having all 4/4 limits the type of furniture you can build)

Dry times to usable lumber can be anywhere from 4-6 months to 18 months. Im sure I build furniture with lumber that isnt technically 'dry enough' - but if you are allowing for movement in your construction design its not a huge problem.

Net net - some pretty dang usable lumber at pretty decent cost. Oh... and not all sawyers are equal. I had one guy that was just starting out, and what I got was very uneven thicknesses, tapered boards (thickness wise), narrow ones, lots of bark, etc etc. The price was quite low, but it was a pain to sort and clean it all up to usable lumber. Other times I have gotten full width boards with the edges trimmed and exact thickness.

[Jim Becker]

I'm about to move 1500 bd ft of poplar into my new racks from a cutting about two years ago. I'm a believer in leveraging good wood if it appears decent to cut while "on the hoof", but your final decision should be when the trees come down so you can at least see what you can see on the ends. As long as it's reasonably good log, even if it's not perfect for grain and color, it can still be usable for secondary wood and utility purposes...and at a cost below buying commercially. I view this as a good eco and recycling practice. And if the logs really don't look good when they are on the ground, it doesn't take much more work to create firewood for someone...

[Scott T Smith]

Great info, thanks, All. Scott, you have me thinking that harvesting the oaks for QS is going to result in very little usable lumber for the amount of work required. It seems a shame since there are very few branches on the lower 1/2 of these oaks, which makes me think it should be pretty straight and decent inside...?

Would I be better off just having this flatsawn?

Prashun, I would definitely QS the 18" - 20" oaks. You're not going to end up with ultra-wide QS, but quite frankly most projects that use QS oak use boards that are 8" or less in width anyway. From your 18" - 20" logs you will yield some 3" - 5" rift sawn material (the perfect width for rails and stiles) and some 5" - 8" wide QS, maybe wider depending upon the amount of sapwood.

[Chris Fournier]

Be sure that our North American beech is in no way as stable and dependable a beech as European beech. Our beech is prone to much degrade during drying compared to its Euro cousin. I have used both and processed local beech from the log, sawing, and drying. Now the 30" diameter of your tree would force my hand to give it a go, of course if it blows up you lose big but you can always burn it. Steaming is the best kilprocess for this species.

[Larry Edgerton]

I had two big ash trees on my property that got the bug and cut them down early this spring. Got a little over a 1000 bd ft out of the pair. Used Anchor Seal, cut them on my buddies 1905 Corley circle mill, the very first Corley mill supposedly, and put it in the kiln all in the same day. Kinda cool, and my buddy got a kick out it too working my old butt into the ground offbearing.

It will be the flooring in my schoolhouse. will be cool to have flooring from the same property.

You don't look like you have that many trees Prashun, what are you putting in their place? Just curious......

LARRY

[Prashun Patel]

I'll let mother nature decide what goes there. Leaves from all my other trees most likely.

[Henry Ambrose]

I'm having these 4 trees taken down this summer. The beech is about 30" dia and 2 of the oaks about are 18-20". Looking for advice on how/whether to salvage the lumber. There's a local sawyer with a portable mill that'll come on site.

My plan:

Beech: Lower 24 feet: flitch slabbed into wide boards 8/4 and 12/4.
Oak: QS'd into 5/4.

I'll save the wider crotch areas on the beech for turning blanks.

I'm planning to sticker and dry on site.

Anything else to think about? Bad idea?

How I usually do this:

Buy a 5 gal jug of Anchorseal. About $75 delivered from N.Y. - not too far from you. Coat the ends generously, twice maybe if you question it. If you don't saw right away, get the logs on blocks up off the ground.

I'd flitch saw all logs to whatever usable dimensions suit. Maybe one thicker cut out of the middle of each. Think ahead about your upcoming projects - need legs for a table or bed? Cut them into leg blanks now. Flitch sawing will give you enough nice 1/4 sawed wood for a couple of table tops and such out of this much wood. 1/4 sawn beech is absolutely beautiful and you will have several pieces. Beech does move but you can work around that.

Don't worry too much about degrade. You're gonna lose some wood but its not all going bad. A 16" wide board with a split half way down the middle is still plenty usable! You're making boards to make things from not a finished product that has to meet market specs of length or width.

Stack and sticker a foot off the ground at least, in a place with good air movement, use side shields on the stacks to slow down drying the first month or so if its real hot and dry. After that be sure they have plenty of air moving over and through them. No reason to strap or band, let it all dry how it wants. Any slight warp can be cut around when you use the wood. This is not rocket surgery.

If you have any possible bug, mold or fungus problems spray or brush on a coat of Borax (from the grocery laundry shelf) saturated water on all surfaces of the boards.

[Tom Fischer]

Great tips. Just to add, for first course use nothing less than 4"X4" stickers, as a base. Let the air fully circulate underneath. And by no means ever lay boards directly on a concrete slab. That will turn them them into firewood.