Finishing Maple

[Jefferey Scott]

Hi everyone,

My wife wants the new kitchen cabinets I'm building to be "honey spice" in tone. Not real dark but not anything close to natural either. What would be the best way to achieve this? I'm spraying Target EM8000cv as a topcoat. Would it be best to add something to that or spray a separate toner or stain then the topcoat? Suggestions are appreciated!

Thanks,
Jeff

[Prashun Patel]

If you have the spray equipment then I would spray an alcohol soluble dye. Beware that aniline dyes can fade; choose a light-fast dye.

Pigment stains are prone to blotchiness on maple, which IMHO has the potential to look horrible on a cabinet array. You can mitigate this by shooting a washcoat of 1# shellac before the pigment stain. But I think a dye stain is a better way to go. You can really sneak up on the perfect color this way.

The trick to finishing with dyes is realizing that they dry deceivingly dull. So, you have to shoot a couple coats on a test board, then top coat it to see how it'll look finished. Remember that how it looks WET is how it'll look when it's topcoated. But when spraying in alcohol, it dries so fast, it's hard to see; by the time you get to the 2nd door, the 1st is dry.

Oh yeah, since dye spraying will involve some experimentation, make sure you test and write it all down...

[Angie Orfanedes]

From my experience, maple is a real challenge to stain evenly. My recommendation is to use a Transtint dye in DNA. Spray light coats on a piece of scrap, to make sure the color is right.

[Scott Holmes]

Jeffery,

If you have never used dye before I suggest you use a water soluble dye. TransTint is water and alcohol soluble. TransFast water only is more color fast than TransTint. Water dyes are easier to use for a first time dye job. Spraying is a good method to get even coverage.

Do not learn on your project PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.

Once the dye has dried, a seal coat of dewaxed shellac is in order. The shellac will not move the water only dye and will seal it in place so you can spray your water-borne finish. Spraying the water-borne finish on the dye without the sealer can cause the color to bleed into the finish.

Adding color to the finish creates a "toner" applying a toner is a learned technique again; Do not learn on your project PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.

[Jefferey Scott]

Thanks for the tips Scott and Prashun! Would you put anything down before the dye coat, say a coat of shellac to control blotching, or would this seal the pores too much and interfere with the dye?

Jeff

[Scott Holmes]

Dyes don't cause blotchiness nearly as much as pigment stains. Also spraying helps eliminates most of the blotchy issues. Dyes work on raw wood not sealed wood.

[Jefferey Scott]

Gotcha, thanks!

[Matt Meiser]

That sounds like what I'm going for on maple cabinetry and wainscoting for our laundry room that I just started last night. All the trim in our house is what I believe to be maple and we've had pretty good luck matching it with a gel stain on previous projects. That's my backup plan. I'm experimenting with a General Finishes water-based stain right now to see if I'm happy with the results.

[Scott Holmes]

The pigment in the gel stains can still cause blotchines; however gel stains both water-based and oil based are less likely to blotch than reg stains.

[Chris Fournier]

Don't bother with alcohol based dye stains, the colour will fade before your eyes. Hand applied water based aniline is easy to control with a modicum of technique; so is spraying and being ready to blend with a damp rag if your gunsmanship (my word!) is not spot on.

[Scott Holmes]

gunsmanship ... LOL

[Matt Meiser]

My sample is looking just like I want. What I've been using is General Finishes Golden Oak water based stain which gives a fairly orange appearance on the maple. That might not be what you are looking for. I just applied with a paper towel. It took three "coats" to get to the color I wanted. Each was just rubbed in and any excess removed. The next "coat" was applied just a minute or two later. I'm not doing a big enough sample to determine if its blotchy or not. The product says its sprayable--that's my next step to experiment with that since it will go much faster. I haven't used a WB stain in probably 4-5 years and wasn't happy back then at all. They've come a long way. And, at least on maple, there's virtually no grain raising. I could stain and shoot a coat or two of EM6000, sand, and spray another coat or two and be done.

[Jefferey Scott]

My sample is looking just like I want. What I've been using is General Finishes Golden Oak water based stain which gives a fairly orange appearance on the maple. That might not be what you are looking for. I just applied with a paper towel. It took three "coats" to get to the color I wanted. Each was just rubbed in and any excess removed. The next "coat" was applied just a minute or two later. I'm not doing a big enough sample to determine if its blotchy or not. The product says its sprayable--that's my next step to experiment with that since it will go much faster. I haven't used a WB stain in probably 4-5 years and wasn't happy back then at all. They've come a long way. And, at least on maple, there's virtually no grain raising. I could stain and shoot a coat or two of EM6000, sand, and spray another coat or two and be done.

Glad the General finishes stain is working for you Matt. It sounds promising. I love EM6000. I've used it on the past couple projects and had great success with it. I think I'm going to order up some Transtint and try spraying it on. I'm getting a new C.A. Technologies HVLP rig to use for finishing the kitchen, so I'm eager to run some test panels ahead of time and do a little experimenting here in a few weeks. I'll report back when I do so. Good luck with the rest of your project.

Jeff

[Scott Holmes]

Jeffrey,
TransFast is the water soluble dye I suggested; the seal coat of shellac over TransTint dye even if you mix it with water will still desolve with the shellac seal coat.

Water soluble dyes are easier to use, chaper and more colorfast.

[Jefferey Scott]

Gotcha, thanks Scott!