Are Wooden Planes Ignored?

[Mark Wyatt]

Are vintage wooden planes ignored in the "modern" neanderthal workshop? Specifically jacks, fores, smoothers, and jointers?

I've just finished a tool storage cabinet for my metal planes. Doing so "uncovered" some wooden body planes that were buried. One was in the middle of rehab (new tote, sole, clean up) and I decided to finish it off and put it to use. I wanted a larger scrub plane for the project I'm working on to help with some wider panels. I remembered Jim K. posting about putting a fore plane to this use.

Well, this one was more "jointer length" but I put a camber in the iron to give it a try. The resulting plane is below.

233592233593
More experienced woodworkers will quickly realize that this plane met with minimal success as the sole is much to long for useful scrub work. Now I see why the scrub is much shorter and narrower. I'll need to convert this back to a jointer I think.
233594
However, after returning to the traditional scrub, I took out a true wooden fore plane with an appropriately sharpened iron and went to work with the initial smoothing on the wood. It is this common "Ohio Tool Co" fore plane (with a nice ebony button). AWESOME! The size and momentum generated are nice, the tote is comfortable, and the adjustments (after a little practice) are easy.
233595
I also used an interesting rosewood jointer to true-up the edge. No idea who made this one, but it worked just fine.
233596
Then I asked myself: why don't I use these planes more? I don't know. Why don't we see these planes discussed more? Again, I don't know.

Who out there is using these old wooden planes as their "tool of choice?" What do you like about them?
Why don't we see these planes discussed more?

BTW, I need a better plane adjusting hammer. Some kind of wood/metal combo with a smaller diameter head would be ideal. Who makes them?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

For me the only big reason I go with iron over metal planes is that that was what I was able to find in good condition, (every wooden plane I come across is in bad sorts) and now that I've got some time in fettling and getting to know the three planes I use, I don't feel bothered to hunt new ones. But I do find them nice - certainly, if they rub you the wrong way they're easier to adjust so you don't get blisters! (I keep forgetting how to hold my number 4, it seems - no more work for me tonight!)

[steven c newman]

I have had ONE wood bodied plane, and even that one was part metal. I'm finally selling my Stanley Liberty Bell #129. Why? Too light. Not enough weight to it. Anything smaller than 20" in the shop is all metal. Just the way things worked out in my shop. A light weight 129, vs a bailey #8c? Once the bailey gets a-movin', ain't going to stop. The two wood smoothers i've picked up to look at this year: a Coffin Smoother, nice iron, cracked body, and: Another small smoother, decent body, missing both the irons, and the wedges. Wood body planes around these parts seem a might scarce....

[Jim Koepke]

My experience is like Steven's, not many around to try out. The Stanley/Bailey design planes are ubiquitous.

There are about a dozen wooden bodied planes in my shop. Many of them are used on a regular basis. Most used are a few rebates then some hollows and rounds.



BTW, I need a better plane adjusting hammer. Some kind of wood/metal combo with a smaller diameter head would be ideal. Who makes them?

They are not difficult to make.

jtk

[Bob Jones]

I think we have collectors to thank. Funny, right? My experience is the same - all the wooden bodies I have seen "in the wild" are not in good shape. I think that since the metal ones sell for more, people bring them out for sale more often. I've never even tried a good wooden plane.

[James Owen]

There are several wooden bench planes in my shop -- a couple of smoothers, a scrub, a fore, and a jointer -- all vintage, as well as a couple of joinery planes from ECE, a couple of Chinese-style high-angle smoothers, and a set of Chinese-style H & Rs. They get used fairly frequently, but like many here, I "grew up" on Bailey style metal planes, and use them the most. There have been times, however, when the woody, for reasons that I have yet to determine, has been the plane that worked the best on a particular piece of wood.....

As for adjustments: I use a Japanese 115 gram plane hammer for depth and lateral adjustments, and a 42 mm white oak mallet for loosening the wedge and retracting adjustments. Yeah, I know, it's two separate tools, but I'm used to it and like the way they each work.

[Kees Heiden]

I'm slowly moving towards the wooden ones. I love them, complete with all the quirks they got. But the Stanley types are still easier to adjust for me, so they get plenty of use. Maybe I should abandom them for a while from the shop, just to get more experience with adjusting the woodies.

I love the light weight, the smooth gliding over the wood, and their historical relevance.

How do you like my scrub?

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll266/Kees2351/Gerf/DSC01413.jpg

[David Weaver]

I would guess that there's a lot of wooden planes left out there that:
* are either totally worn out
* need a wedge fit properly in a bad way
* don't always feed that well (if they're more modern)
* have some twist or need serious tuning to the body
* have a wide open mouth from wear
* has an iron/cap iron pair that is in bad shape

At least we know now we can get the double iron to mitigate the open mouth part, but sometimes even then a plane won't feed well because it wasn't properly made.

People probably have mixed experiences based on what they buy (by chance) and then based on what they work (wooden planes are really nice to use for softwoods and medium hardwoods - on something like hard maple, then things start to lean toward a metal plane).

I use some of both, but if I only had one set of planes, they'd be standard metal bench planes.

[george wilson]

I think OLD wooden planes are more numerous here in the East due to population here in earlier days. Anything had to be carried in wagons to the West,and at a later date,after all. I've found many a good wooden plane in Pa. in past years in flea markets. Now,more likely on Ebay.

[Zach Dillinger]

They aren't ignored in my shop. I literally have a couple hundred, including all types of joint cutting planes, molding planes, bench planes, etc. I greatly prefer wood planes to metal planes for many reasons. I prefer working with old style tools (Bailey type planes are just too "new" for my aesthetic sense). They work better (for me), are easier to tune up, and I can make my own planes easily. I have a number of iron planes, but they mostly sit in my "for sale or loan" box, rarely do I use them (even my "must have" block planes, almost never touch them). If I had to have only one type, it would be wood planes, no questions asked..

Kees, I love that scrub! I've wanted a decent gerschaft plane for a while, but they always go for more than I'm willing to spend. I'd love a nice little smoother in that style.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, they're on ebay now if you know how to spot a good one, or at least one that will likely need no more than a little fiddling with fit/wedge due to movement over the years.

I have bought a few in person here in PA (especially over toward central PA), but strangely enough, my best ones, and best deals have come off of ebay or from the fine tool journal newsletter sales.

On ebay, you have to know what style you're looking for, be patient for a true auction, and then one with pictures just good enough to be able to tell that the plane is in decent shape is going to be the best deal. A pristine plane with great pictures from a reputable seller usually goes out of my buying range.

It's a shame what ebay has done to tool sales here in PA - there's just almost nothing left at them unless they are organized by a big-time tool seller, and even then, a lot of what I've found is a whole bunch of marginal stuff, and then two or three pristine things that are priced to the sky. If I was a seller, I'd probably unload on ebay, though, too - why hold on to something and haul it around everywhere when you can put it up for an auction online and get a good price for it?

[Mike Brady]

I hear you about Ebay sucking tools out of "retail" circulation. We have a really large flea market nearby and my first and many other vintage planes came from there over the years. Saturday I went for the first time this season just to see what I could find. I found nuth'n. Even the few tool regulars had pathetic stuff. My theory is that they sell the better stuff on line. I have heard dealers say that they dislike bringing tools to markets because they are heavy and prone to damage. Frankly, old tools are likely far down on the priority list for dealers and buyers alike at those large venues. Fortunately, we have a good MWTCA chapter that has an annual tool meet nearby. I get what I need from them; and at very fair prices.

[george wilson]

My last trip to the big flea markets was rather DRY. I saw a dealer with 10 or 12 crank neck gouges with their handles painted red. He wanted $800.00 for them!!! I didn't bother to ask what he really would take for them. Didn't need them anyway. They weren't even that useful,being pattern maker's gouges with cranked configuration.

Other than that,I saw a #12 Disston saw with light,but complete rust for $8.00. I passed it up,because my back was hurting,and I just didn't feel like carrying it back to my van. This was early into the market,before I discovered that SQUAT was to be had,anyway! I would just have sold the Disston anyway. Already have a stack of old saws. Fortunately,I got more tools than I'll ever use back in the 70's and 80's,before the internet ruined the flea market scene.

[steven c newman]

Wen to an Antique shop near here. Found a FEW items: Long wood jointer, no front knob, iron rusted, wedge split, rear tote desstroyed. Small Coffin smoother body "ok", no wedge or iron, $18??, on the bottom shelf nearby, an Ohio Tool Co. #5-1/2 , restored, $45??, up by the front door, ON the floor, newer model Stanley #4, restored, $40???, out in the barn ( beside the Jointer) a small block plane, unknown maker, steel body (very thin) small iron, "Chromed" cap. Along that same barn shelf, a Stanley #80 rust bucket (i bought and restored) a Union #4G rust bucket ( also bought and restored) a Worth 13.5" Jack plane (restored, and in use by me) about a dozen or so handsaws, a few backsaws ( bought one @$2) about ten braces, three boxes of bits, and about five miter boxes (missing the saws, of course). On the way out the door, passed by, then bought a little block plane. Took it home for a clean up, turned out to be a Stanley 9-1/2. They have some stuff in the store proper, and have a large barn out the side door. In the barn there are two rows of shelves of nothing but old handtools. None of which have been cleaned up. stuff is bought at sales, and dumped on these shelves, no real order to them. Kind of fun just to walk up and down the row. In the store itself, tools are scattered around, one has to look everywhere for a tool or two. Almost missed that 9-1/2 because of that...

[David Posey]

As others have alluded to, it's just easier to find servicable metal planes in the wild. I run across plenty of workable metal planes, but most wooden planes are shot. The one exception I can think of is this antique store south of St. Louis. There's a guy there that has 3 or 4 cases of wooden planes all in working condition. He displays the moulding planes attached to a wood base made with their profile, so you know that they cut. I got a set of match planes from him about a year ago, and I think they took all of five minutes to set up. Nearly everything else I've seen has been shot.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

BTW, I need a better plane adjusting hammer. Some kind of wood/metal combo with a smaller diameter head would be ideal. Who makes them?

Mark,

Plane hammers aren't hard to make. Get some square brass stock and shape it with your router table.


233638

The handle can be shaped with rasps and spokeshaves. Wood end fastened by drilling round mortices into both pieces and an epoxied dowel loose tenon. You can make different sizes to match your needs. And it feels satisfying to use a tool you made yourself.

Nice project and easy to make in an afternoon.

Cliff

[Bob Glenn]

I was recently hand planing a nice piece of figured cherry 15 and a quarter inches wide, for the writing arm on a Philadelphia writing arm chair. I was struggling with my iron planes so went into the house and got a Kenov plane I made a couple years ago, but not used much. Waxed the bottom, tapped the iron into place and was amazed at the ease and finish I was getting feathery shavings. Before long, I had a writing surface that needed only a few coats of oil and mineral spirits to finish. Once you get the gist of how to set the irons, woodies are a joy to work with.

[Mark Wyatt]

It seems that a major theme is the lack of availability of these planes at a reasonable price and in a reasonable condition. Around Indiana, we see far more iron planes as well. The wood planes must be sought out with a skeptical eye.

I've rarely found anything useful around these parts in a flea market; at least, useful and for a decent price. Garage sales, estate sales, and auctions seem to yield the best finds.

[Mark Wyatt]

Mark,

Plane hammers aren't hard to make. Get some square brass stock and shape it with your router table.


233638

The handle can be shaped with rasps and spokeshaves. Wood end fastened by drilling round mortices into both pieces and an epoxied dowel loose tenon. You can make different sizes to match your needs. And it feels satisfying to use a tool you made yourself.

Nice project and easy to make in an afternoon.

Cliff

That's pretty much what I was looking for. Another project for the "to-do" list.

[Bill Haumann]

Woodies are my planes of choice. I first bought some from Steve Knight before he was selling them as kits, then picked up some nice vintage ones at some NJ CRAFTS meetings, and then from various other sources. Once you know what to look for they aren't too hard to find, at least here around NJ. One of my favorites is a 17" Marples foreplane from around 1940, NOS for $65 ( I've since seen that same plane several times for around that same price). I've recently started restoring an old #5 (my great grandfather's), and it's probably taking ten times as long to restore as a woodie of twice it's age.

[Mike Olson]

I like the idea of woodies but the few that I have used were just so finicky to set right and after a few minutes of use I had to re-set it again.
I found Transitional's to be the best for me. I get the wooden body and the easy to dial in depth adjustment that locks in place.

Edit: Oh, and transitional's are even harder to find around here. lots of woodies and steel body.

[Derek Cohen]

For some tasks, woodies are my preferred option.

For example, a long, wide jointer will be manageable in wood, but far too heavy in metal.

This one is 36", and is heavy but controllable. In metal .... :rolleyes:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/My%20planes/CoopersJointer_html_781967ee.jpg

The same goes for a jack plane that aims to remove waste quickly. I could custom build this one with a thick D2 blade that would handle abrasive hardwoods easily and hold an edge longer ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/My%20planes/BuildingaJackPlane_html_ma7dc66e.jpg

And when it comes to planes for mouldings, such as H&Rs, I have not seen any that were not made in wood.

In short, there are some things a woody does best. At other times it is just a personal preference.

Regards from Perth

Derek (building the ultimate woody at present!)

[Matthew N. Masail]

Derek I love your planes....! makes me want to get some really nice hardwood stock and build sets... and set.... and sets....... I would be happy as a tool maker I must say. so far I have laminated some teak and glued on an Granadillo sole.... do you like the screw cap better or the wedge? from a purely functional standpoint, which would you recommend?

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Matthew

Ironically, the planes should swap wedge and lever cap. The jointer has a tapered blade, while the jack is straight.

I really like the lever cap. You can adjust the down force, which makes it easier to tap at the desired weight.

Since that photo was taken I have added side set screws to the jointer. This improves the ability to tune the blade angle (as well as replicate the previous setting).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

I used wooden planes daily for 16 years while in the musical instrument shop,and for years previous to that,and later also, and did not have to re set their blades until I resharpened them. If the blades are needing frequent resetting,it is because they aren't tapped in tight enough,they aren't tapered,or because they are polished too smooth,OR because oil or wax has been applied to their wedges or inclines.

I filled many a plane with linseed oil,though,so I kind of doubt the issue of slippery wedges or inclines.

I made many planes without tapered irons,and did not have trouble with them slipping,either. That makes me think that they aren't being tapped in tightly. Perhaps some non skid stuff like chalk could be applied to the surfaces that aren't holding? Powdered rosin will give a death grip for sure!!

If wooden planes cannot be had,why not just make simple Krenov types,and buy an iron???? Anyone can do that. I was making such planes when I was in high school,and never had heard of Krenov. Actually,Krenov has not been an influence to me. One of my earliest ones had brass sides,and a rosewood infill riveted together. I used a blade I made out of a big old HSS power hacksaw blade. Used it for years until someone begged it off my workbench in Williamsburg(for $). That happened a lot when collectors came into the shop. I sold stuff I wish I hadn't later on,but at the time I found t hard to say no,and would just make replacements.

[Mark Wyatt]

I made many planes without tapered irons,and did not have trouble with them slipping,either. That makes me think that they aren't being tapped in tightly. Perhaps some non skid stuff like chalk could be applied to the surfaces that aren't holding? Powdered rosin will give a death grip for sure!!



George, thank you for the powdered rosin tip. I'm going to try that tonight on a plane that's been giving me some trouble.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks Derek, That’s pretty much what I thought you would say. I'm having a hard time with my first wedged plane slipping in hardwood cuts.... I spent time tuned the contact with the bed and it helped, but when I sharpened the blade (and worked on the back) all went wrong again. it could be because it's such a small plane with limited contact area, but anyhow I think I'll just enjoy the screw cap more.

George I have no doubt you are right..... and I plan to keep making wedged ones until I get it right. I feel it's an important skill to have, but I'm not sure I care for the quirks that seem to come with it.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Mark,

Plane hammers aren't hard to make. Get some square brass stock and shape it with your router table.


233638

The handle can be shaped with rasps and spokeshaves. Wood end fastened by drilling round mortices into both pieces and an epoxied dowel loose tenon. You can make different sizes to match your needs. And it feels satisfying to use a tool you made yourself.

Nice project and easy to make in an afternoon.

Cliff

That is an awsome hammer !

I must say in a general sense - I made a temporary hammer out of mahogany; it's too light and too big (about 1inch square), but honestly it works just fine. I don't feel a need for a brass head to hit the blade with, and I don't care if the hammer face if full of shallow dings.
I also like that I don't have to check which side of the hammer I'm using.

[Stew Hagerty]

BTW, I need a better plane adjusting hammer. Some kind of wood/metal combo with a smaller diameter head would be ideal. Who makes them?

I have one that I picked up from LV: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,230,41182&p=46540

I also bought a nice heavy brass fitting that I am going to make into a little bit beefier one by adding screw-in wooden faces and handle. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004ZLCHFG/ref=oh_details_o06_s01_i00

[Jim Matthews]

I use a machinist's hammer with acetate buttons on each face.

It's just heavy enough, and doesn't mar the woodies.
Perhaps 8 ounces, and two dollars at my local flea market.

Most woodies I find have dried to the point of splitting and don't have a wedge.
My favorites are the Marples Number five (http://www.oldtools.co.uk/tools/copy_of_Marples_Transitional_Jack_Woodworking_Plan e.html) - fit with a Hock blade, they're near effortless to handle.

[george wilson]

A small round head brass hammer is still available,but from where I can't recall. I bought mine from Brookstone years ago when they still sold tools.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Somehow I ended up with one of these (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Hammering/Fretting_Hammer.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=1199) years ago. It's my go to for plane adjusting.

[Frank Drew]

One of my favorite planes was/is a Seventies vintage Ulmia smoother with a fruitwood body and a lignum vitae sole; very nice tool to use, felt great in the hands and did an excellent job.

Traditional Japanese planes are wood and it's hard to argue with the quality of work they can do, but the soles do take frequent fine tuning if you're doing a lot of planing (like hours at a time).

[Mike Olson]

Perhaps some non skid stuff like chalk could be applied to the surfaces that aren't holding? Powdered rosin will give a death grip for sure!!

Interesting, never thought of that. I'll grab a stick of my kids chalk and rub down the irons. The woodies I was talking about are molding planes which I still have. The Irons are tapered but they are heavily pitted so that may also have something to do with it.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I have one that I picked up from LV: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,230,41182&p=46540

I also bought a nice heavy brass fitting that I am going to make into a little bit beefier one by adding screw-in wooden faces and handle. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004ZLCHFG/ref=oh_details_o06_s01_i00

That brass fitting is a great idea, thanks!