Elm - what can I expect??

[John Keeton]

A friend called and said he had a large elm tree taken down. He had promised the smaller portions for firewood, but asked if I wanted some of it. To make it better, he asked how I wanted it cut!! His tree guy removed the pith and cut it into 8x8x24 pieces for me, with a couple of 10-15" long pieces left over. Even saved the smaller sections from beside the pith for spindle work.

I have a piece of elm from Jeff Nicol that has not been turned, and I turned one bowl from a piece of dry elm. It turned well. To be honest, I think I have underrated this stuff - the color and grain is very nice.

Questions - will the color change much? If I turn it to finish (hollow form), what kind of movement should I expect? Is it prone to cracking - the ends are sealed, but it will take years for this stuff to dry!

[Marty Eargle]

John, the only Elm that I have turned has been dry stuff from Mike Smith. I agree that it is very underrated, especially when you have a nice contrast between heart and sap woods. The only issue I had with it was slightly above normal tear out on the end grain. I turned a few salad bowls out of it that have been sitting in my kitchen for a few months now and they haven't really changed color much.

Look forward to seeing what you make out of it!

[Dale Miner]

John,

Depending on the species, elm is an attractive looking wood. My favorite species are Red Elm, and American Elm. Siberian Elm is Ok, Chinese Elm, not so much.

What to expect? Elm is tough. While it is hard, it is not as hard as oak. The toughness of it can make it challenging to turn. It responds well to sharp tools, not so well to tools that are still 'fairly sharp'.

The growth rings will washboard if sanded heavily. Light cuts with sharp tools to finish up are best to avoid the need for heavy sanding.

Hollowing cross grain with scraper tools works OK, although the shavings can be stringy and difficult to remove from the vessel. Frequent sharpening of the cutter may be needed. I've tried to hollow some small cross grain vessels with a small Hunter, but found the shavings did not break up very well and the hollowing went faster with a standard scraper type cutter. End grain hollowing should be about the same as any other tough wood, althoug I've not done any elm forms that orientation.

As to movement, my recollection is that it is about average. The only cracking I've had with elm is on pieces that were questionable with knots or other flaws in the roughout.

I doubt that the 8"x8" pieces will dry to the center without cracking, and even if they do, some movement post turning would be likely. I suggest either once turning from green and accept the warping, or twice turn.

The color of it seems to hold pretty well. Oil will impart an atrractive darkening in my opinion.

Oh btw, some of it has a smell that makes a barnyard smell good.

[Paul Williams]

I have only turned two pieces of elm, but they were both stable and with very little movement. Both were finish turned in one session. Sometimes the pattern between the grain lines provides interest.

[Roger Chandler]

The elm I have turned gives a lusterous brown with prominent grain figure............makes for a beautiful turning if one can get grain orientation correct. Makes nice hollow forms and bowls. I like the way it works on the lathe.........and finishes......I like a satin finish on elm............feels nice in your hands.

Looks like you have some real opportunity to have some nice pieces..........elm can crack on you, so glad you have it sealed!

[Bruce Pratt]

Local elm I've turned has good contrast between heartwood and sapwood. Pure sapwood would probably be ok as a base for dye coloration, Heartwood or mixed - not so good. Haven't seen any color changes in either heartwood or sapwood in pieces turned about 12 months ago.

For end grain hollow forms I've used Hunter's and Ellworth hollowers, both work fine. As to "toughness", I've only turned elm green to final, so I haven't noticed much of problem in that regard. Warpage seems in the low-moderate range.
+1 on sharp tools - as always;
+1 on smell of wet wood, although seems to vary between individual trees.

Results may vary with local species.
-----------------
Bruce

[Jeremy Leasure]

I've rough turned several pieces of elm, and finished 3 or 4 so far. Mine was all spalted to various degrees however. I had low tearout and low movement in those pieces so far. Little early to say on color change, but the rough outs changed very little in coloration over the course of a month in open shade, unbagged.

[Bernie Weishapl]

John, ditto what Dale said. I have turned quite a bit of elm both chinese and siberian. It is a hard wood but with sharp tools there isn't a problem. If I turn bowls I twice turn them. Rough, dry and then return. If I do a vase I turn it to finish. As soon as the sanding and the bottom is done I soak mine with antique oil. I keep adding till it will take no more. When I do this I have very little if any movement. I suspect if you saturate with any oil it will be fine. As Dale said when sanding don't get heavy handed with it as it will washboard. The bowls and vases I have turned the color has stayed pretty much stable.

Oh and it does have the distinctive smell of a wet dog. Not to bad but there. All in all I like turning elm. Give it a go John as I am sure there will be several beautiful pieces come out of that pile.

[Tim Chase]

Bernie nailed it. The sanding warnning is hard to avoid on large broad surfaces like platters and bowls. The smell is very prominent when turnning wet the return on dryed roughed out bowls was much better.

[John Keeton]

Thanks, guys! I have no idea which variety of elm this might be, but from viewing images of the leaf and bark, my guess is Siberian. Sounds like I need to turn these pieces to finish.

I have an opportunity for more elm from a tree that was harvested several years ago and has been in the weather since. I should produce some nice wood, as well.

[Paul Singer]

To give you an idea of the smell they call it pissy Elm up here in the Northeast and it is a well deserved name but it does produce a nice open grain bowl. I also have seen the washboard effect.

[John Keeton]

Paul, in this situation, my nearly complete lack of a sense of smell may well be a blessing!

[Barry Elder]

I prefer elm to maple on a local basis.

[Steve Schlumpf]

John - I have turned a few pieces of Siberian Elm and the finished product can sure have some beautiful grain! I used an oil based poly or Antique Oil to pop the grain and the oil will darken/add an amber tint to it. I also agree with the need for sharp tools! I twice turned each of these and while the warping was normal - the wood once dry was harder than most that I have turned! If you are turning green to finish - you shouldn't have any problems!

Looking forward to seeing what you turn out of this!!

[Tom Winship]

John, just turned a bowl about 8 1/2 in diameter and 5" tall from elm that the drought got last year. Cut it to bowl length, split along pith and painted with AS about 6 months ago. It is pretty dry. The end grain is pretty easy to tear out so you really have to use sharp gouge, but I love to turn this stuff. When you turn the inside, you get some of the prettiest, heavy curlies that are so stiff they won't go through the strainer on my DC.
Left it on the lathe last nite, it moved about 1/4" out of round, but no cracks. Turned some when it was green as I recall and it moved about the same then. Wish I had a larger piece to make a big bowl out of. Grain is pretty. People around here call it cedar elm, I guess because of the reddish color of the heartwood.

233971

[John Keeton]

Tom, that is a nice one! I expect to get some more elm this summer from a large log. Perhaps I can save a chunk for you.

[Jamie Donaldson]

You can have some fun with wood movement by turning through an elm log section including the pith. It will probably pucker out like a football as did this old piece turned years ago. As Dale mentioned, the barnyard smell will fade with drying, but since you can't smell and the "Studio" is free standing you won't be in any trouble with the Mrs. as long as you don't bring shavings into the house!

[Harry Robinette]

John
Elm is like willow in the smell area it takes on the smell of anything in the ground. I tried to turn a piece a friend (?) gave me.The tree was growing over an old septic tank and he never said anything about it. Elm is very stringy and tough so it's not very easy to split and it chars but doesn't burn with any flame.
Elm like many have said is very beautiful. I'm sure your skills well make something of beauty from it.

[John Keeton]

It will probably pucker out like a football as did this old piece turned years ago.Jamie, that one looks like it was textured with a wire brush - did that occur when it dried?

[Jamie Donaldson]

John K.- it was turned wet and wire brushed after drying.

[John Keeton]

Very nice effect, Jamie - almost looks like a professional turner did it!!!!:D;) A little inside joke for us!

[Bernie Weishapl]

John here are some cored Elm bowls.

[Chuck Jones]

Pity the person who got elm for firewood if it has to be split... because it can't be split.

I love it for turning. One of my favorites.