SAWSTOP: Any Updates?

[Ken Waag]

I should be coming up on the SawStop waiting list soon and I was just curious to hear from anyone who has one. It's always nice to get the hands on scoop. I know Dave Wright #2 had been posting, but no news since Oct '04.

Dave if You're out there any news? (see my post on your previous SS thread)

Or any one else?

I read the FWW review which was generally positive but talked mostly about safety (understandably) but I'd like to know more about operation/features as well.

For any one else who is interested in the matter, I did a search and found this user's review http://www.just4fun.org/woodworking/tool_reviews/sawstop/

He said he was trying hard to be objective but that it was the best tool he had ever seen. He listed pros and cons which I'll let you read on the link.

Not much else out there since it has only been out a few months, so any input appreciated! thanks, Ken

[Keith Starosta]

Hi Ken. Matt is actually a member of Saw Mill Creek. You should drop him a PM about the SawStop. I'm sure he'd love to talk with you about it.

Keith

[Per Swenson]

I spoke with saw stop on Friday afternoon.
I preordered a 3hp cabinet feb 5.
Mine is ready to ship.
Bank transfer payment 9:01 am Monday.
I am truly excited.

Per

[Mark Singer]

Per,

Let me know when it gets there....I send a package of Hebrew National Frankfuters...quality all the way!


I spoke with saw stop on Friday afternoon.
I preordered a 3hp cabinet feb 5.
Mine is ready to ship.
Bank transfer payment 9:01 am Monday.
I am truly excited.

Per

[Todd Burch]

So, I've got a real question here about the Saw Stop.

I've not followed the Saw Stop plight to any great detail, but I do understand that, basically, if your body comes in contact with the blade, a 1-time brake engages, and the blade is hosed, and you have to buy a new brake for a tidy sum.

Does the Saw come with an extra brake? A brake service plan? And, since you have been spared loss of limb, or finger, of whatever might have been flopped up on the saw..., how long does it take to get a new brake installed - pretending you have one sitting in wait on the shelf?

Can the Saw be used without a brake while the replacement is being UPSed?

Are the SawStop people going to be coming out with a MiterSaw? If your wood is wet/green, will the SawStop false brake?

[Ken Waag]

Todd,

There are people with more expertise than myself who may chime in on your questions. My only expertise comes from following the development of the safety system and then the saw and reading whatever I could about it. I'll answer your questions to the best of my ability.

I believe the brake units are $60. In simple terms the system works by sending a small electrical current to the blade. Anything conductive that contacts the blade will draw away some amount of that current. There is a sensor that detects the current loss and if it is sufficient, the brake mechanism is triggered. Essentially it is thrown into the spinning blade, bringing it to a halt in milliseconds. You may have seen or at least heard of the hot dog tests. It happens that a frankfurter has a very simailar conductive pattern to human flesh. So they run them into the blade in demos. When done at wood feeding speed the dog gets a nick barely thru its skin.

I had wondered about a faster approach at the blade and my question was anwered by a WW teacher who swung a hot dog on a stick into the blade as fast as he could. The weiner suffered a bit of a cut, but as assessed by an ER Doc who happened to be in the class, it would've required "2-3 stitches." Do that with your finger on a regular saw and you may still be looking for your finger.

I do not know how long it takes to replace the brake mechanism. A Dave Wright #2 on this forum has the saw and say the manual gives hints on getting the blade and brake OFF of the saw which is apparently the tricky part as the becomes "welded" together. Putting a new brake catridge in (and yes, I assume a wise user would keep one on hand) amounts to snapping it into place.

The saw is, of course, designed not to work w/o a brake cartridge in place. I don't imagine it would take much smarts to override that, but anyone smart enough to do it should be smart enough not to do it, if you know what I mean. I plan to keep spares on hand and assume most would.

Wet or green wood will apparently not trip the mechanism as it is not close to the conductivity of flesh. As I understand it the main concern in tripping the brake is grounding the blade in some way. This would obviously draw all of the current from the blade and kick the brake in. The one false trip reported thus far happened when someone cut a piece of wood which had a piece of foil tape on the underside. This established an electrical path from blade to table and tripped the brake as well it should have. Had the tape been on top my conjecture is that nothing would have happened. The foil tape should not have had enough mass to dra away sufficient current and it would not have been grounded. It took the tape touching the table and then meeting the charged blade.

I have not heard of a miter saw available with this technology. But have read that it has been prototyped with a number of macines (probably a miter saw in there somewhere). The applications for this concept are immense, which most people do not realize. You'll see talks on these forums about the number of tablesaw injuries etc. but that is just the tip of the iceberg. The numbers get truly dramatic when you consider the possibility of a variety of machines and particularily industrial settings when the volume really kicks in.

Well perhaps I've addressed your questions, and possibly given you more info than you really wanted. I won't rewrite the saga for you here, but it is really an interesting story. Both in terms getting the technology to market and the discussions it has spawned. www.sawstop.com (http://www.sawstop.com) for more info on the saw. Do an internet search or a search on any woodworking forum and you'll find more info., but you'll have to wade thru alot of Kndergarden level babble and hot dog jokes.

[Dino Makropoulos]

The applications for this concept are immense, which most people do not realize. You'll see talks on these forums about the number of tablesaw injuries etc. but that is just the tip of the iceberg. The numbers get truly dramatic when you consider the possibility of a variety of machines and particularily industrial settings when the volume really kicks in.

.

You right there Ken.
I saw the Saw-Stop in IWF Atlanta last year.
What I saw there was not just a fine piece of machinery. I walk away thinking of all the possible uses and the real life benefits of this sophisticated and brilliant idea.

[JOSEPH GOVEA]

Hi Ken,

I just received my sawstop last week :) All packages came undamaged except for the 52" rails that yellow feight had lost/missplaced :mad: This weekend I cleaned off the top & noticed that the table top had small pits in the the cast iron. I called Sawstop & spoke to a rep. He told me to email him pics of top and that he would get back to me. But other than that the saw appears to be built like any other high quality cabinet saw.

[JOSEPH GOVEA]

Hi Ken,

I just received my sawstop last week :) All packages came undamaged except for the 52" rails that yellow feight had lost/missplaced :mad: This weekend I cleaned off the top & noticed that the table top had small pits in the the cast iron. I called Sawstop & spoke to a rep. He told me to email him pics of top and that he would get back to me. But other than that the saw appears to be built like any other high quality cabinet saw.


hi Ken, just received an email from sawstop they are going to send me a new top to replace the pitted one. All I can say is what great service the sawstop co has provided me they are also going to send me another set of 52" rails if yellow feight doesn't find them by wednesday. :)

[Ken Waag]

Per, I share your excitement. I need to call tomorrow to check my status. Give me the report when yours comes in and eventually we can trade notes.

Joseph, thanks for the news. Glad you got the saw. Sorry to hear about the glitches, but then again very happy to hear about the good service.

From all accounts thus far the saw is a winner. We've got at least a few "SawStopers" in this group so we'll have to keep in touch. Good luck and enjoy the saws.

Ken

[Dave Wright #2]

Ken,

Sorry; been on vacation. You may or may not have already found my review on Wood Central.


The saw's still doing well after about 4 months and a couple dust collector bags worth of cutting. Mine arrived as the best built and packaged major power tool I have ever put into service, though there were still a few assembly errors. They were easy to fix, and I understand that the specific issues have been put on their checklist. The anti-kickback pawls could use some design improvement, but that's picking nits.

Let me know if there are any specific questions that my review does not address.

Regards,

Dave

[Craig Colvin]

Just got word today that my 2 SawStops will ship on the 25th. I'll give a report after evaluting them.

I talked earlier this week with a friend back east who just got his and he said it was one of the best built tablesaws he's ever used (an he's used most of the name brands). So I'm really looking forward to receiving them.

[Rich Konopka]

Ken,

Sorry; been on vacation. You may or may not have already found my review on Wood Central.



The saw's still doing well after about 4 months and a couple dust collector bags worth of cutting. Mine arrived as the best built and packaged major power tool I have ever put into service, though there were still a few assembly errors. They were easy to fix, and I understand that the specific issues have been put on their checklist. The anti-kickback pawls could use some design improvement, but that's picking nits.

Let me know if there are any specific questions that my review does not address.

Regards,

Dave


Excellent article Dave !! Very unbiased and to the point.
Thanks for sharing

[Tom LaRussa]

Are the SawStop people going to be coming out with a MiterSaw?

A radial arm would be a great idea too. I've heard some real horror stories about them.

While we're at it, why not a Jointer-Stop? That's the most frightening piece of equipment in my shop.

Maybe a Planer-Stopper? You don't hear about too many accidents with these, but the one I have heard of was where a guy had his arm chewed off up to the elbow. That's enough to put a person off woodworking for quite a while. :(

Maybe a Bandsaw-Stopper? Build it into the upper wheel housing and set it up to snip the blade in half when contacted by flesh. Of course Lennox Trimaster users would probably rather lose a finger tip than a blade... ;)

[Alan See]

Joseph, Me too! My Sawstop arrived last Wednesday, But Yellow misplaced by rails! Rails should arrive on Monday. The saw is fantastic! though I haven't made any rip cuts yet. Quite an improvement over my trusty Ryobi BT3000! I also have a mobile base on order from HTC. When it gets here, I guess I'll need a little help lifting the saw on.

[Dave Wright #2]

Alan,

I lifted mine into its shop-made mobile base with two sawhorses, a bunch of 3"x3"x3/4" plywood scraps, and a spreader bar clamp. The sawhorses fit beneath fence rails, one against each side of the saw. The spreader clamp was used to tip the front of the saw up. Plywood scraps held it there and I shifted the spreader to the back. Rinse and repeat until the saw is high enough to slide the base in below, then reverse the process to get it back down into the base. Work carefully to make sure that the saw doesn't tip or shift unexpectedly.

Just a thought if there aren't several strong backs handy.

Regards,

Dave

[Alan See]

Weren't you worried about bending your rails? Of course, I haven't seen the rails yet. I have been seriously considering just leaving the thing on its pallet, and buying a pallet truck (jack) to move it around. I could put pallet type bases under all my machines, and probably come out cheaper than buying a mobile base for each. I'm tall, so the extra 3" height isn't much of a problem. Has anyone ever done that?

[George Summers]

Alan -

The pallets, to me, would seem to be a good idea at first, but then I was thinking (bad idea sometimes). The pallets are quite a bit bigger than the bases of most machines. Wouldn't the pallet sticking out around the machine get in the way of walking around the machine and create a trip hazard?

George

[Dave Wright #2]

Alan, the rails and steel angles that attach them to the table castings are quite sturdy. Where I placed the sawhorses may have also been important. The horses I used fit beneath the rails so they could be placed close to the cabinet. Not much of a span. I was more concerned about the fact that much of the saw's considerable weight would be suspended from the top and the cabinet tabs. Steve Gass advised me ahead of time that they would take the load, but I should take care with the lift because the saw is not equipped with dropstop.

George, interesting idea leaving the saw on the pallet. It adds 4 1/2" to the saw's height for a total of 38 1/2". I'm 6'-0" and have been happy with my saw at 35 1/2" (34" + 1 1/2" added by my mobile base). I would guess that 38 1/2" would work for a person 6'-4" or above. The pallet measures 38" square - pretty large compared to the 20" x 25" cabinet footprint. It would almost surely interfere with use of the saw. The pallet jack idea is interesting though. One might make a custom pallet, thinner and smaller, for the purpose.

[Ian Barley]

Most of my bigger machines are "palletable" either with blocks to raise them, standard palets or custome pallet stands. It certainly works out cheaper than a mobile base for each machine.

[Alan See]

You wouldn't really need to use an actual pallet. You could build a custom base for each machine with appropriately spaced lifting points on either side of the center of gravity. The base wouldn't really need to be 4 1/2" tall either, just tall enough to clear the thickness of the tines on your pallet jack

[JOSEPH GOVEA]

Joseph, Me too! My Sawstop arrived last Wednesday, But Yellow misplaced by rails! Rails should arrive on Monday. The saw is fantastic! though I haven't made any rip cuts yet. Quite an improvement over my trusty Ryobi BT3000! I also have a mobile base on order from HTC. When it gets here, I guess I'll need a little help lifting the saw on.


Hey Alan, glad to hear that you are getting your rails monday, yellow found my rails the other day, ups brought the second set friday. Sent them back of course I only need one set. My replacement table should be hear monday via ups. Still waiting for my moblie base from HTC. Spoke to the rep friday he said I should receive no later than this coming friday. All I can say is the SAWSTOP C/S has been GREAT!!

[Alan See]

The guy I spoke to at HTC told be they have sold their entire production of Sawstop mobile bases, and are building more. I have a 2 week wait to get mine. I guess that means Sawstop is having an impact on the marketplace. I wonder if Powermatic or Delta have noticed a drop in Cab. saw sales?

[Dave Wright #2]

Maybe so; makes me wonder how many Unisaws and PM66s are sold in a typical year. It looks like SawStop will have shipped about 1000 in their first 12 months of bonafide production. Total retail value, including fences & accessories, around $3M. Not bad, but then that's the gross and they have plenty of R&D to pay off.

The gently rounded SawStop cabinet front renders it incompatible with any conventional mobile base. HTC is the only "off the shelf" option, which I'm sure is why they are seeing good sales of their units. You can also go shopmade as I did. A third option worth mentioning, but one that I have not personally tried, is the Jet casters that attach directly around the skirt of a closed cabinet machine (http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=detail&iid=11604). They are rated to 600 pounds, which is a little short of this saw but may work anyway. Price is about $70 per set. I would be interested in hearing if anyone has tried these.

[Alan See]

Still No Rails... Yellow had assured the Sawstop people that the reails woud be delivered today, but it's 5:30, and not so much as a phone call from Yellow. I called the claims office, and they transferred me to the appointment desk voice mail. When I followed up with Renee at SS, she told me she would get another set enroute to me tomorrow, AND light a fire under YF from her end. I have been very impressed with the level of service and concern of everyone I have spoken with at Sawstop. Yellow Freight, I am less impressed with.

[Ken Waag]

I talked to SawStop the other day and my saw is due end of May -early June. I guess that means I get the rails about August? Hope you guys get that situation straightened out soon.

Ian- I like the pallet ready tools idea. I always learns something reading thru here.

DW #2: thanks for the tip on the horses and spreaders. I'd been thinking ahead on ways to lift and move and that may be the ticket.

General comment: Yes, I'd bet that the Wilton (Jet&Powermatic) and Delta folks are having a few meetings. I wonder if they are wishing they had bought into the idea in the first place. I am sure they are hoping for bad reports, false triggers and accidents. I have a feeling something interesting has to come out of this. I bet either they make some drastic changes or one/both bites the bullet and trys to buy Sawstop out. Any takers?