Outboard Turning Tool Test Options?

[Whit AndersonIL]

I have a Jet 1642 lathe. In theory I can turn a 16" bowl with that lathe. In real life they are noticeably smaller. I would like to turn some bigger bowls (I don't have a specific size in mind, maybe 20" or a little bigger). The headrest on my lathe can be moved all the way to the right so that I can turn off the end of the lathe. My problem is what to do about a tool rest. I have read some of the previous posts here showing what other people have done. I don't want to build my own support for the tool rest.

I've found a number of possibilities which I have boiled down to two very different solutions.

One is to buy the Powermatic Floor Stand which is described as a heavy duty 130 lb. cast iron stand. Craft Supplies USA sells this stand for $388.99 (plus shipping).
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Lathes___Attachments___Powermatic_Floor_Stand___po wermatic_floor_stand?Args=

The other solution I am considering is the Laguna accessory, Outboard Turning for 18/47 Lathe Model Number: ALA6050-0175. This is a short bed extension with a banjo and riser for the tool rest. I believe that it fastens to the end of the lathe with 3 bolts. I don't see a problem with drilling holes for the bolts in the leg of my Jet lathe. Laguna sells this accessory for $145 (plus shipping I suppose).
http://www.lagunatools.com/accessories/accessories-lathe/Outboard-Turning-for-18-47

Question 1:
Does anyone have/use either of these solutions?

Question 2:
Does anyone see a problem with either of these solutions?

Question 3:
If money weren't a factor (I wish), which solution would you choose?

Thanks.

--Whit

[Jerry Wright]

Doesn't your 1642 head rotate also. Rotated at 45degrees to ways, you can turn a substantially larger bowl than 16". I turned a 24"dis on my 16" General that way. Your banjo can accomodate several rests.

[Robert Henrickson]

Doesn't your 1642 head rotate also. Rotated at 45degrees to ways, you can turn a substantially larger bowl than 16". I turned a 24"dis on my 16" General that way. Your banjo can accomodate several rests.

The headstock moves along the ways, so you can turn oversize off the end, butdoes not rotate on a 1642.

[Robert Henrickson]

I have a Jet 1642 lathe. In theory I can turn a 16" bowl with that lathe. In real life they are noticeably smaller. I would like to turn some bigger bowls (I don't have a specific size in mind, maybe 20" or a little bigger). The headrest on my lathe can be moved all the way to the right so that I can turn off the end of the lathe. My problem is what to do about a tool rest. I have read some of the previous posts here showing what other people have done. I don't want to build my own support for the tool rest.

I've turned 15 1/2" diameter bowls on my 1642 (helps to use a horse-shoeing rasp to get that tiny bit of clearance!). And I've done plates 15 3/4". Both are large enough that I've not sure what I would do with anything larger.

[Roland Martin]

I'm in the same situation, Whit, I also have the 1642. I pretty much agree with Robert's point about a 15 1/2" bowl, probably the biggest bowl I would ever need to turn. I really would like to, and will at some point, add an outboard rest. I can't bring myself to pay that much for the Powermatic stand (tightwad):D. The Laguna add-on seems to look a bit under-supported to me, the larger the turning, the more torque we have to deal with, I would suspect some toolrest bounce on that one (but haven't tried it and could be wrong on that one). One of the better outboard rigs I've seen is one that Baxter made for his Powermatic. Probably no help, but I'm still at odds myself.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I've turned 15 1/2" diameter bowls on my 1642 (helps to use a horse-shoeing rasp to get that tiny bit of clearance!). And I've done plates 15 3/4". Both are large enough that I've not sure what I would do with anything larger.

Me too. It was rough for me to get this 15" blank on the lathe. Hope the attachment attached.....

[charlie knighton]

Whit, i have the Powermatic Floor Stand, i bought it when i bought my 1642. my reasoning was i was at the richmond symposium and most of the turnings (95%) in the instant gallery could have been done on the 1642. i was trying to decide wearther to buy the 1642 or the powermatic. i did not use the stand for a while but now use it for multi-axis wallhangings.


Does anyone see a problem with either of these solutions? i like using the floor tool stand. you must put something (block of wood) between the stand and the end of the lathe, because the stand will tend to be drawn into the turning. i have not done any large bowls, maybe 10 to 12 diamenter bowls are about as large as i want to do. i have also done some multi-axis totems, i call them totems for a lack of better description. when you turn outboard Whit, you will most likely be turning something unique, or nearly unique. i like that, others have the ability to do these turnings, but do not have the equipment or lack of better word the will to do them.

[Thom Sturgill]

One of our club members has an external stand a friend welded up for him. It is a truck wheel with a vertical pipe welded to the hub. A plate is welded to the end of the pipe and a couple of pieces of heavy angle iron form a short bed that he can mount his banjo on. It stands at the same height as the top of the lathe bed. I have a small table top that I would like to turn a rim on that is about 24" diameter. This would be handy for that.

[John Keeton]

Were it me, this would be the option I would choose - seems much more versatile.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?174054-Home-brewed-bed-extension-for-Mustard-Monster/page3

[Doug Herzberg]

Whit, I have the 18/47 extension Laguna offers, although mine was sold by Busy Bee Tools in Canada for less than $100 including shipping. I did a quick review right after I got it installed. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?179388-Tool-Review-Busy-Bee-Outboard-Extension&highlight=

I still haven't used it much and there is a lot of flex in the articulated banjo arm. I've done a few more platters, but have not tried a big blank inboard or outboard. I need to get the lathe bolted to the floor first.

Since it was a perfect fit for my Grizzly 18/47 I figured I wouldn't be out much in time or money if it didn't work out. The jury is still out, but I'm sure I will have to do something about the banjo. The legs on the homemade extension in the link John Keeton provided look like a good idea, too.

If I remember right, you'll need to drill and tap three metric holes at the correct height.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Whit,
It seems like the Jet 1642 is built similar to the Powermatic 3520. I was able to buy a bed extension for my 3520 that mounts either flush with the ways or 6" or so below the ways. In the lower position, I can mount the banjo with a riser block and turn off end without need for an external tool rest. Maybe Jet makes a similar extension.

[Jerry Wright]

Sorry for injecting incorrect info. Before I purchased my General 16", I looked at the 1642 pretty carefully. Why would anyone buy a lathe without a swiveling head stock? :)

[Jamie Donaldson]

Whatever you decide, DO NOT use a free standing tool rest that is not attached to the lathe in some secure manner. There is always the dream of turning a monster bowl, and once having tried the workout, the dream often is much faded for another round.

[Jim Burr]

Jamie! I'm wondering about your suggestion...no argument...just want to know. I see a lot of You Tube stuff with a 50" bowl and a free standing tool rest. Talk about the disadvantages of a free stander so we get the picture. I too have a 1642 and may never want to do anything that big but I like to know stuff!! I did a 15" cheese and cracker platter but felt comfy with the clearance, on the other hand...depth is a different horse.

[Jamie Donaldson]

The danger of a freestanding tool rest is that it can and most often will tilt into the spinning wood, and the result's not pretty. Outboard turning is most often already stretching or exceeding the design capacity of the lathe, and when a tool rest, tool, turner, and speeding wood all come together in an unplanned manner, it's usually the turner that loses that crash. A good brace between tool rest and body of the lathe prevents the rest from falling into the moving wood, so the outboard accessories that are well designed for a specific lathe are usually worth the extra money to assure extra safety in operation. Too many turners have the desire to turn a "big bowl" and then find out how physically demanding it can be, and there's no market for wooden bird bathes!

[Whit AndersonIL]

Thanks to everyone who replied. There were a lot of good points brought up for me to think about. At this point I see two main problems. If there is flex in the Laguna articulated banjo arm that seems like a bad thing. A big bowl gives the gouge a pounding until the bowl gets pretty round. The other red flag is the caution from Charlie and Jamie that the free standing tool rest might have a tendency to move or tip. I suppose I could brace the free standing tool rest.
--Whit

[Whit AndersonIL]

Doug--
Your review was great. There seems to be a dearth of information about the size of the parts of the Laguna accessory. I was very pleased to see some measurements.
--Whit

[Whit AndersonIL]

Charlie--
When you said, "you must put something (block of wood) between the stand and the end of the lathe," did you mean attach a brace near the top of the stand? When I first read that I thought maybe you meant that the stand "walked" as you used it and you put a piece of wood on the floor. Then I thought maybe you meant that it tipped toward the lathe. A much scarier prospect.
--Whit

[Whit AndersonIL]

John--
I saw that design when I searched the archives. It is ingenious. It does look very sturdy. It also looks like the easiest version to build myself. It is, however, not completely without cost. 2 pieces of steel (4" x 1/2" x 12") would cost me between $50 and $75 at McMaster-Carr. It looks to me like the Powermatic Extension post is about another $90. Then there is a bunch of Baltic Birch to buy. Some people might have some steel lying around, or a bin full of Baltic Birch, which would make that design more economical.
--Whit

[Whit AndersonIL]

Roland--
I hadn't seen Baxter's Tool Rest. Thanks for pointing it out. I unfortunately don't have a welding setup (nor skills). I'm still not sure what I want to do.
--Whit

[Whit AndersonIL]

Jamie--
You have several good points here. I have no desire for an unexpected meeting of my hands, body, or head with the gouge or a large piece of spinning wood. I think that the Powermatic free standing tool rest is as close as I am going to find in a tool rest designed for the Jet lathe that I have. I was told that the free standing tool rest was once available in white for Jet owners.
I agree that turning a bowl can be physically demanding. Just carrying the big blanks down to the basement is a bit of a workout. Then the cutoffs and shavings all have to come up again. But the 15 something inch bowls that I can turn are fun and worth the effort.
--Whit

[charlie knighton]

Whit,

this is what i use

i do not have problem with tilting, but the stand does get drawn into the turning if i do not use stop on the feet

[John M. Smith]

Whit,

I purchased the steel at a local company. Cost around $20. I was lucky enough to have the scrap baltic birch from work for free. And yes the post was $90 . I feel it was well worth it. With the riser block I made for the tailstock, I am able to reverse chuck a bowl, and finish turn the bottom.

[Richard Allen]

There are a lot of different solutions. My first solution would be to "impose" on someone with a larger lathe and turn a large bowl (or whatever) on that lathe.

1. You may find that you really like turning big stuff.
2. You may find that turning big stuff is fun but something you actually want to do only a few times a year.
3. You may find you don't like turning big stuff.

My solutions would be for condition:

1. Buy a bigger lathe
2. Impose on friends with bigger lathes a few times a year
3. Focus on the turning I like to do

Turning BIG stuff puts a LOT of stress on your turning apparatus. The outboard solutions that you are selecting from are LESS capable than the lathe turning over the ways. Why would you want to turn BIG wood (which can do bodily harm) on a less capable turning apparatus? I am aware of only one outboard turning setup which is more stable than the inboard turning setup. That is the Oneway large outboard turning system. That system is designed for the large Oneway lathes and costs well over $1000. For that $1000 you get a lathe bed which is 17" wide. The banjo Is HUGE supporting a tool rest with a 1 1/2" post. As you can tell from the specs this is a VERY stable platform for turning large hunks of wood. When you turn wood using this setup you can focus on the turning and forget about the stability of the lathe (just like you do when you turn wood inboard on you lathe).

[Jeffrey J Smith]

I just sold my 1642 for a lathe with a larger swing, it's being picked up today; but, when I researched options for outboard turning, the Vicmark outboard turning attachment was mentioned often. It is adaptable to many lathes, only requires drilling a couple of holes in a leg to attach. It looks and functions a lot like the one Robust offers for their equipment.

I just noticed that the cost has escalated since I first did my research a couple of years ago.

[Whit AndersonIL]

Charlie--

Thanks for your response and for the picture. It gives me another perspective on how that tripod works. That looks like it shouldn't be much of a problem to brace the tripod.

I should do what you have done and put a bunch of weight on the bottom of my lathe. I suppose I should also clean my floor as well as you have. I'd be embarrassed to post a picture showing the floor in my shop. :^)

--Whit

[Whit AndersonIL]

Jeffrey--

Thanks for suggesting I look at the Vicmarc. They even mention that people use it with Jet lathes.

The more I look, the more confused I get.

--Whit

[charlie knighton]

I should do what you have done and put a bunch of weight on the bottom of my lathe.

most big blanks are going to be irregular , the 1642 is made to make a platform with 2 2 by 4's and plywood, run the lathe at slow slow speed til you get the blank balanced, the 1642 does not have a very big footprint, almost would like an outrigger to steady it up on the turners side

[Dick Strauss]

Don't forget to take into account the separation between the rails of the ways (the PM3520 has a 2.5" space, the Jet 1642 has a 1.75" spacing, and the Delta 1440 has a 1.5" spacing between the way rails). In other words, any accessories (banjo, etc) from the Jet will not work with the PM bed extension. I don't know the spacing on the Laguna so it may or may not be the same as the Jet 1642.

[Doug Herzberg]

I don't know the spacing on the Laguna so it may or may not be the same as the Jet 1642.

The spacing on the Busy Bee is 1.5".