A few questions setting up our new Shenhui lasers.

[Greg Facer]

I've been busy actually setting up the first of my 150w Reci lasers to do a proper "full run down" post to add to the knowledge pool, but I also have run into a couple of minor problems too.

Problem #1 is that the machine is partly set up for 110v and partly for 220. The circuit (in machine) that powers the motion control, ran fine on 110v, was labeled 110v on the machines outlet, but actually came with a 220v power cable and the internal power supplies were set to 220v (although they worked fine it seemed at 110v). I've slid the switches over to 110v to be safe.

The laser power supply has a 110v sticker on it so I assume it's OK, but I blew the fuse doing just a few squares for testing, and the fuse is 5a 250v, thinking I might need a 10a fuse for the lower voltage. Any thoughts ?

The chiller was also 220v, but bought a small transformer for that.

Problem #2 is the Corel plug in. I was able to get Corel running as administrator, allowing it to show the icons for the plugin. And it seems to work fine the first time. However any second try to move the graphic from Corel to Laserworks does nothing. Only I'd I shut down laser works will te script work again, inning a new instance of laser works and transferring the graphic.

Any ideas? I have not tried reinstalling Corel (x5 btw) in c:/ as has been suggested.

Thanks! Greg Facer

[Greg Facer]

Well, I tried a new 5A fuse, guy at the electrical place said that it will actually be higher rated at a lower voltage anyways, so maybe I am OK there (I got some 10a just in case). However, new fuse lasted about 2" of cutting at 100 percent, 15mm/s. I think I'll try a lower setting and lower speed, but beginning to think power supply might be at issue?

Any ideas would be welcome.

[Rich Harman]

When you install LaserWorks there will be a check box called "Plug LaserWorks" or something similar. If you have that checked, then whenever you click the button in Corel to export, it will automatically launch the full version of LaserWorks with your file already imported into it. I would reinstall in c:\ either way.

I don't know about a 5 amp fuse working differently at a lower voltage. Typically the fuse has an amperage rating and a voltage rating. The voltage rating has to do with the dielectric properties of the fuse. Five Amps at 12 Volts should blow a five amp fuse the same as it would blow at 5A/110 Volts.

My very gross approximation suggests that a 150 Watt laser would be drawing 6 amps at 110V when run at 100% power. This is based upon it being 20% efficient at converting the electrical energy into infrared heat. If it is supplied with 220V, then the Amperage required is halved and a 5A fuse seems appropriate. Again, these are gross estimates.

I would get in touch with Joy or Yarde before making any alterations though.

[Greg Facer]

When you install LaserWorks there will be a check box called "Plug LaserWorks" or something similar. If you have that checked, then whenever you click the button in Corel to export, it will automatically launch the full version of LaserWorks with your file already imported into it. I would reinstall in c:\ either way.

Yes, that is how I thought it should work, but only works the first time. After that, it does nothing until laserworks is not running. However, I might just make my own macro to do the work, in autohotkey.....might be easier than figuring this out, with bonus of being easy to modify for X6, X7, etc.



I would get in touch with Joy or Yarde before making any alterations though.

Can you message me with their contact info? I have nothing other than my salesperson's info.

Thanks, Greg

[john banks]

Do you find that when you run the macro again the old Laserwork window remains open but a new paste has occurred even though the Laserwork window that was already open hasn't been brought to focus?

You want Corel installed outside Program Files if you have Vista or Win 7 with UAC because otherwise the macro can't write to an area in this folder it needs to without administrator privileges.

You will have a PM shortly.

[Rodne Gold]

I think you need the 10amp fuse , 5a @220v = 1100 va power draw , the same power draw for 110v needs a 10A fuse.
We don't futz with trying to use the Corel macro , it's far easier , tho a step more, to just export out of corel as Ai8 and import into Laserworks.
We do the same for many other machines , my CnC TekCel router , my ISEL's and my digital printers etc all have their own stand alone "back ends" and Corel is merely the design package , only my GCC machines have direct drivers from Corel.

[Greg Facer]

Another issue.

I humbly admit I didn't at first realize what the clear plastic cap that comes with the RECI tubes was for, and had some arcing to the frame at first, while doing the mirror alignment. However, I did "get it" afterwards and took off the silicone "blob" the instructions for the cheaper tubes are supposed to get, rubbed off the silicone, and reattached the wire to work with the RECI cap and installed as shown. (No black burn marks then!)

I did a hour or two of engraving testing today and all was well, as well as the last run of 50% power cutting testing I did. Today I DID have the 10A fuse installed. As soon as I started cutting at 95%, or a few minutes into that cutting little test circles, I started with the arcing issues. I cleaned off the contacts and reattached, tried again at 50% power (that had proved fine with the older 5A fuse).....arced again. It seems to be arcing from the from the innermost metal ring, not where the wire attaches. The circles only run for 5-10 seconds, so not a lot of stress on the electrical.

I did get Joy's contact information at Shenhui, so hopefully they have some suggestions, but I thought I'd throw it up here too. Thanks all for any help.... I am really hoping that machine #2 is easier to set up than this one. This one seems a little like the "oh crap there was supposed to be 2?" model, a little rushed.

My thoughts are either to seal the cap in with silicone (messy if that doesn't work) or wrap the whole end with silicone tape.


233816233817

[Greg Facer]

Emailed back and forth with Joy a bit, 10A fuse was OK, advice was pretty much to check the wires, both high voltage and low. I did so, wrapped the wires (after putting the cap on in the high voltage side) with silicone tape, now I have no laser at all. Need to get Joy a video tomorrow of the tube to send to Reci people, although I will check the connections one more time.

I didn't get a spare tube, but do still have the tube from the other identical machine i could try and swap out to trouble shoot (power supply I did get a spare).

[Rodne Gold]

Check the continuity of the RED HT wire , we found it had been joined somewhere and it was not a good join.

[Rich Harman]

It looks like it is arcing from the wire to the metal ring without going through the crimped connector. I would check it carefully and replace if it looks suspect.

[Greg Facer]

Hi Rodney, Rich

My Brother, who is using the second machine we ordered once it is set up, told me about that issue as a possibility, and perhaps I should still check it out, but 95% sure that is not the problem.

1 reason is that the crimped connection is well insulated and I think and fault in that area would show at the spot where the wire enters the cover over the crimped part. Second, the scorching starts in in the middle of that plastic cover on the side closest to the tube (and furthest from the point on the case it arcs to), with not hole or heavy scorching on the crimp cap itself.

The total effect looks like its coming from that point on the ring of the tube end itself, which would make the whole high voltage connection ok and the tube faulty, I guess....or at least needing some better insulation than the cap was giving it.

I'll send some other photos later when i'm back at my desktop and not my phone.

Greg

[Greg Facer]

Further update:

Changed out the power supply, making my own High Voltage junction box design in the process (I'll post pictures), and changed the high voltage wire connection to a new ring style, crimped on only. There was also a loose wire into the power supply that I redid in the crimped style. But, I tried the old power supply with those new connections and still nothing. So, changed out the power supply and started zapping again.

I'm going to set up my second machine in the meantime, leave testing this one and redoing the silicone tape over all the connections until later, and probably after Joy at Shenhui has gone over what I have done and gives a little feedback.

So far, decision to get spare power supply and no spare tube is still holding out.....and better to have the PS go as it's alot easier to ship a replacement. Figuring out what I need for replacements is also a good reason to work on Machine #2.

Greg

[ray hampton]

I may be wrong but all of the fuses that I buy and can remember [clip type ] are 250 volts

[Greg Facer]

I may be wrong but all of the fuses that I buy and can remember [clip type ] are 250 volts

Yes, rated up to 250V, so good for either 110 or 220V, but at the rated amps for either one. So, 5A at 220v was supplied, but what was needed was 10A for 110v operation. This was confirmed with factory. I had pretty much confirmed by more reading online, mostly of people going the other way, and warning NOT to use a amperage that worked at 110v if voltage changed to 220v. It was only the guy at the electrical counter that made me second guess for a while, but he was looking at the specification of when the fuse explodes at 110v, which was I think was 10,000 volts or something.

Greg

[Greg Facer]

Further update:

Changed out the power supply, making my own High Voltage junction box design in the process (I'll post pictures)

No pictures, the box didn't work at all! Good for any leaks on the water sensor, but that's it.


I'm going to set up my second machine in the meantime, leave testing this one and redoing the silicone tape over all the connections until later, and probably after Joy at Shenhui has gone over what I have done and gives a little feedback.

So far, decision to get spare power supply and no spare tube is still holding out.....and better to have the PS go as it's alot easier to ship a replacement. Figuring out what I need for replacements is also a good reason to work on Machine #2.

Greg

So, in setting up the second machine, I left the silicone tape at my shop. Fortunately, there was an electrical wholesaler next door and we got some 3M high voltage tape that was similar to the silicone tape but easier to use. Since my pvc conduit boxes didn't work for containing the voltage (arced through the gasket to the frame), I wrapped the heck out of the wires with this tape, and wrapped all the openings on the wires on the tubes too.

That *almost* solved my issues. I rearranged some bolts on the laser mounting, so I had to realign the laser. When hitting the laser button to mark tape, as I get further from the tube, I have to use the laser button a few times for a darker mark.....but if I hit 3 times in rapid succession, I would have a arc. I never could tell WHERE it arced, but I could here it and the LCD blanked out (although one time the sound seemed to come from inside the power supply). The other arcing seemed to be at the high voltage end of the tube, but none of the earlier external signs of arcing were present. I suspect that it might have been in the tube and might be an issue with the tube not quite getting rid of all the voltage from a short pulse (and arcing internally?)

Anyways, after I first emailed Joy at Shenhui about the issues, he emailed RECI..... and I heard back today that they will replace the tube if I email the back / front / and label together (ie distroyed or disassembled). Not sure if I want to go down that route as the laser has been fine in all the small test jobs I have done at various power levels. Except for the testing issues with the 3 rapid laser button pushs, changing the power supply seems to have done the trick.

So, looking for opinions. Naturally, I don't want to destroy my tube and the time taken to set it up, as well as possibly pay out for the new tube shipping or duty or whatever I might need too, if it's not necessary. However, I know that if I have a borderline tube then I might be better off taking the offer, and I might be biased towards keeping what is working now.


Thanks, Greg

[Graham Facer]

Adding to the thread as I am the one working on the other laser we got. No arcing issues for me (knock wood) but trying to determine a power issue I had yesterday trying to actually make the machine earn its keep. I was cutting some shapes in 1/8"extruded acrylic (well some might have been cast...) and one my first attempt I had a setting 25mms/98% power (its 150W) and that worked fine for the first half of the sheet but as I moved further away from the laser, the power went down. So items on the far side (as the beam travels) and the front (towards the operator) needed more power (sheet was 48"x 36"). I added zones to the second attempt and slowed things down as I got further away but on the last run I was down to 12mms from 25mms and it was just cutting the material but not the bottom masking at that point on the front edge of the last one. I have not rechecked the mirrors yet but I did clean the one above the head and the next one back and then ran some little tests at the front and back on the far side (from the laser) and was not able to replicate the issue (well -it cut a little better on the back but I think the right setting on the front might have been 23mm/s from 25.

Any thoughts on that? I've see people refer to zones but not sure if it is for this issue or just due to the job they were doing.

GF

[john banks]

We consistently cut 1/8" acrylic (mixture of cast and extruded depending on colour, doesn't seem to matter) at 20mm/s with 90% power on 100W RECI anywhere on the table, so your settings sound appropriate.

Five points I'd make:
1. Using 98% power be sure that your current doesn't exceed the rated current on your tube, our V4 allows 30mA absolute max, 28mA continuous and 26mA for long life. Running 90% power gives 25-26mA so that is our limit.
2. Check the distance between the nozzle and the material in all corners of the table if you haven't and level it. If you are >0.5mm difference then consider your focal length as although you can cut material >1/2" thick with a 1.5" lens with >80W, the speed will vary with even a mm difference in distance between the nozzle and the material.
3. Based on point 2 decide your correct focal length based on results rather than using the supplied measuring stick.
4. Correct orientation of the lens is convex upwards.
5. Check and double check alignment all over the table, also check that the beam is central in the nozzle and perpendicular to the table. You may well need to adjust the laser tube mounts and iteratively go through the mirrors again, but it is worth it for performance and kerf straightness all over the table.

[Rich Harman]

Verify alignment, focus and table level-ness as John said. There will still be a slight loss of cutting power as the beam has to travel further. If you base your settings upon cutting near the upper left then you will probably have problems at the lower right.

I usually cut a 30mm x 30mm square at the lower right corner of the work piece to check power/speed settings. If it cuts nicely there, it will cut everywhere else - providing the material is level and alignment is good.

Coincidently, 30mm makes for the perfect size to use as a focus gage for my setup.

[Graham Facer]

We consistently cut 1/8" acrylic (mixture of cast and extruded depending on colour, doesn't seem to matter) at 20mm/s with 90% power on 100W RECI anywhere on the table, so your settings sound appropriate.

Five points I'd make:
1. Using 98% power be sure that your current doesn't exceed the rated current on your tube, our V4 allows 30mA absolute max, 28mA continuous and 26mA for long life. Running 90% power gives 25-26mA so that is our limit.
2. Check the distance between the nozzle and the material in all corners of the table if you haven't and level it. If you are >0.5mm difference then consider your focal length as although you can cut material >1/2" thick with a 1.5" lens with >80W, the speed will vary with even a mm difference in distance between the nozzle and the material.
3. Based on point 2 decide your correct focal length based on results rather than using the supplied measuring stick.
4. Correct orientation of the lens is convex upwards.
5. Check and double check alignment all over the table, also check that the beam is central in the nozzle and perpendicular to the table. You may well need to adjust the laser tube mounts and iteratively go through the mirrors again, but it is worth it for performance and kerf straightness all over the table.

Good to know #1 there. Greg did more of the research and I haven't gotten a power gauge going yet. I did level the table but I did not check consistent height (which should be OK as the table was level but I'll double check).

I'll check the lens orientation (not entirely sure how that comes apart) and perpendicular is on my list to check (not important for what I was cutting). For focal length I tried the stick first and then actually the autofocus - which seemed much better (until I messed it up this morning...). The stick is off for sure.

The only weird thing on the aiming is that for the second mirror at the front of the machine (operator side) the 'dot' is more like a line. seems to return to a dot by mirror number 3 but it still leaves me thinking its not quite right. did have an issue in that the carriage was not square to the side rails (off about a 1cm) - and still might be off about .5mm to .75mm. That helped a lot on the initial aiming as when Greg and I were trying before that it was never shooting straight!

Anyhow, thanks for the tips and pointers. Might be a few days before I can check on anything but I've got my list.

GF

[walter hofmann]

Hi there
if the beam comes out anywhere at the beam line as a line then the previous mirror is hit from the beam right at the rim of the mirror and needs to be adjustated that the beam hits the center of every mirror dead on.
sometimes the adjustment of the beam even needs to be alligned in the hight starting at the laser tube who needs to be exactly level if the machine is dead on level eventually put some shims under the tube brackets. then make sure that the tube end is max 1 inch from the center of the first mirror lots of power gets lost if not.
greetings
walt

[Rich Harman]

Agreed about hitting the mirrors in the center but I disagree about the laser tube needing to be level. The height where the beam hits the first mirror is critical as it affects the other mirrors but the angle that the beam hits the first mirror is not at all important.

[john banks]

The only way I found I could keep the beam centralised in the nozzle and perpendicular was to adjust the laser tube angle. If the angle of incidence is the same as the angle of reflection with a mirror, won't the angle that the beam hits the first mirror propogate errors through the whole optical train otherwise?

[Rodne Gold]

If the first immovable mirror "corrects" the tube path , there will no problem with any other moving mirrors, so essentially you can have the tube firing cockeyed at the first mirror centre , however you can angle the first mirror at that point to fire at the centre of 2nd , ie correct the cockeye... possible cos you can move the first mirror in more than one axis.

All the mirrors and housings/mounts need to be checked that they all in the same horizontal plane an that the beam is in the same plane as their centres-- alignment is slightly easier to do if you level up the laser tube with respect to centre planes of all mirrors.

There are 2 focussing mechanisms on most of the lasers , either raise/drop the table or use the telescopic lens holder/head - I have found that once you align the machine do not vary the distance of the lens from the last mirror in the head...it changes alignment slightly. So don't focus using the telescopic tube Rather raise or lower the table
Make a mark on the telescopic tube of the head/lens assembly so if you have to mess with the tube , you can go back to where you are.

[Rich Harman]

No. Think of it this way - you could (in theory) rotate the laser tube so that it was vertical. The beam would be shooting straight down into the first mirror from the top instead of the side. You could mount the tube in any position so long as when the beam exits the first mirror, it is headed towards the second mirror. In practicality the tube would not be more than a degree or two off from level anyway. There is not going to be any benefit from trying to make it level. In fact, Reci recommends that the tube be mounted at a slight angle to help clear air bubbles.

There is however a huge benefit in making sure that the where the beam hits the first mirror, that it does so at the exact same height as the second mirror.

[john banks]

Thanks both. Perhaps my first mirror being a bit stiff to adjust has meant that I didn't get it spot on as I also found that despite setting a specific time and power on the control panel that the "pulse" spots are either quite small and don't mark the supplied double sized paper, or the spot is too big (a few mm across) to know whether the spots at both end of the y-axis are centrally superimposed, so I don't really find out until I check for centrality in the nozzle and perpendicular cuts, then I find that the final mirror cannot be angled in a way to get both unless I move the laser, but next time I'll spend more time on the first mirror.

I just hate it when thicker material has an angled kerf, it is not what customers expect even though we know the beam is an "X". When we're making things out of wood I expect them to stand up on their cut edge and for it to look straight. I expect circles to roll in a straight line smoothly on a flat surface, not look like it is a square wheel :) I'm happy with how it is cutting, very happy, thinking of a CNC router, but it would be unlikely to do the detail (or the speed) unless we spend a lot I think.

[Graham Facer]

Hi there
if the beam comes out anywhere at the beam line as a line then the previous mirror is hit from the beam right at the rim of the mirror and needs to be adjustated that the beam hits the center of every mirror dead on.
sometimes the adjustment of the beam even needs to be alligned in the hight starting at the laser tube who needs to be exactly level if the machine is dead on level eventually put some shims under the tube brackets. then make sure that the tube end is max 1 inch from the center of the first mirror lots of power gets lost if not.
greetings
walt


Well I did check the mirrors in sequence so that's not it (it is centre in the first mirror and centre in the second when it is back near the first, but then seems to spread. I'll try and attach a photo of the impact. I also agree that the level should not be an issue on the tube. But when you say the beam should be at the same plane as the centre of the mirrors, you are doing that as you aim them all in sequence aren't you? So if you do aim it centre/centre/centre you should be lined up in the plane too? Or do you mean pay extra attention to the height of the aiming (though the dots are a little diffuse (we aimed at 20%, 40ms). Would a longer or more powerful burst give a tighter dot?

[Greg Facer]

I'll let my Brother Graham take over here. I'm out for the moment. Arcing issues are back and therefor I'll be de-commissioning the tube and waiting for a new one. Bummer, but it is what it is.

Greg

[Rich Harman]

I also agree that the level should not be an issue on the tube. But when you say the beam should be at the same plane as the centre of the mirrors, you are doing that as you aim them all in sequence aren't you?

The only thing that matters is that when the beam leaves the first mirror it is heading straight for the center of the second mirror. It does not matter at what angle it enters the first mirror because the first mirror will steer the beam where it needs to go.

Another way to say it is that the three contact points of the beam on each mirror need to lie in the same plane. The source of the beam (the tube) can be coming from any direction.

[Greg Facer]

I'll let my Brother Graham take over here. I'm out for the moment. Arcing issues are back and therefor I'll be de-commissioning the tube and waiting for a new one. Bummer, but it is what it is.

Greg


And the bad new continues, new tube is DOA, broken in transit (or sitting waiting for customs for 4 days plus a long weekend). Box damage on one side, cooling coil broken on the other. Courier was nice in that he waited (and insisted) while I opened and inspected. Bummer again, new email off to Joy.

[Nick Foley]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I have a question about setting up my Shenhui laser:

What is the included tube of silicone sealant/glue for? Covering electrical contacts? or sealing a specific air or water connection? I'm (slowly) setting up my newly arrived laser and have yet to find a use for it.

[Scott Moore2]

I had arcing all over my 100w Morntech. I know it's a different brand, but the same sort of cheap Chinese knock off. I had arcing in a couple of spots. I eventually rubber lined the box the tube sits in with a sticky backed rubber flashing underlayment. Then I put silicon on the leads to the AMP meter, and on all the connections throughout the machine. What I found was that the wiring was not sufficiently covered and protected from arcing in about a half dozen places. The wires connecting to the bulb were only one thing to solve.

[Uros Sovilj]

Hi

The silicon is for sealing HV conection on Tube. If you don't seal HV contact where red wire comes from Tube power suply to tube connector the spark will hitting the housing of the machine and will destroy your tube plus it can be dangerous to you if you don't have propper grounding. Just put silicon on contact and form a big bulb with fingers. You also have sticky thread on shenhui lasers just on the top of thread list.
Note that normal insulated tape wont work as said in this thread before you need to have Hihg voltage tape but silicon you have works ok.

[Rich Harman]

I did not use the silicone or any other type of insulation, other than the plastic cap that goes over the HV connection to the tube, and I have not had any arcing.

[Uros Sovilj]

Did happen to me:(237250

[Nick Foley]

Thanks for the note about sealing the HV connection! Pretty wild that it arced that far.... I guess the 19 kV ignition voltage of the tube means a potential arc length of ~19mm.

Speaking of the wiring:
What are my options for grounding the (110v, 90W RECI) machine? I'm setting ours up in an area where a "meter long copper spike in the ground" simply isn't feasible. Are there viable alternatives? A solid connection to the outlet ground wire perhaps?

[Nick Foley]

Update:

Connected the frame of my laser to my outlet box ground, seems to be working so far.

[ray hampton]

Update:

Connected the frame of my laser to my outlet box ground, seems to be working so far.

did you check your ground wire to made sure that it are actual making contact at all points

[Greg Facer]

ugh,

second replacement (this time in a wooden crate) via DHL air arrived damaged.....quite a bit worse than the one shipped only in the cardboard box....ie internals smashed to bits.

Another month down the tube with this machine! I guess I was wrong not to buy a spare tube.....might try to get one off ebay as a spare and while I wait again. unless anyone has got a shipment coming by ocean that I can hitch a ride on.

Greg

[Rich Harman]

I have a spare 80 watt Reci tube and power supply. Let me know if you need it.

[Greg Facer]

Hi Rich

Think I might hook up replacement #1 and see what happens. Near as I can tell, the break on that one only makes the coiled section of glass shorter.....much shorter. But, that section of glass seems to only be to pull in more CO2 to the laser chamber.....maybe the coil is to prevent condensation?

Anyways, might work in a pinch.....any larger jobs I can use the other machine for, especially when I have the speed / power figured out....thanks for the offer though.

DHL is NOT on my favorites list. Not very effective customer service, and not very good handling procedures obviously.......might have to send a few shock labels to stick on the box to RECI.

[Greg Facer]

I just saw a post from Ray Scott of Rabbit laser on CNC zone...... the coil is for making the path longer than the central tube....arcing will almost certainly occur through the outer tube if I hooked it up.

FYI for anyone in the same position. Think it's time to toss the tube in the trash.

[Davis McCarty]

Hi

The silicon is for sealing HV conection on Tube. If you don't seal HV contact where red wire comes from Tube power suply to tube connector the spark will hitting the housing of the machine and will destroy your tube plus it can be dangerous to you if you don't have propper grounding. Just put silicon on contact and form a big bulb with fingers. You also have sticky thread on shenhui lasers just on the top of thread list.
Note that normal insulated tape wont work as said in this thread before you need to have Hihg voltage tape but silicon you have works ok.

Do you have a photo of how to do this correctly? |
My laser was running without issue for about 2 days, then we had a severe arcing issue, causing the plastic cap on the 130w laser to melt due to fire. Since then I have added a electrical line conditioner and grounded the machine. On my tests last night I was still seeing arching while pulsing.
I have a dual 130w & 80w in the same machine. The 80w is also now arching in my pulse tests. I will recheck my wiring and look for any unsealed/loose connections tonight.

Davis

[Bill George]

FYI Once the HV starts arcing it leaves a carbon track which it will follow the next time. Go to a good automotive parts store and get the copper core HV spark plug 8mm wire meant for modern CDI ignition systems, rated at about 40,000 volts, use it and new connectors and boots meant for spark plug use.
Making 100% sure the tube is grounded and all ground points are clean and tight. Adding extra jumpers for good ground connections will help. IF the tube is not grounded back to the PS then the HV + will be hard to control.