What's the woodworking community like in Burlington VT?

[Roger Feeley]

Is there much of a woodworking community in and around Burlington? I am starting to range out looking for a place to move. I can go pretty much anywhere as I am semi-retired but still work remotely as a software engineer. As a remote worker, I can take the job anywhere.

I'm interested in Burlington because:
-- It appears on many 'best of' lists.
-- 5 universities
-- I prefer cooler weather than Kansas City. We get some extreme cold but it also gets really hot.
-- Burlington is on the shore of Lake Champlain and close to Stowe.
-- Gobs of water. My other thought was Boulder but they have yearly droughts now.
-- My daughter lives in DC, likes to ski and sail. The idea is to get her to visit.

I really don't want to live as far south as DC.

So anyway, any Vermonters out there? What's it like. I'm sort of spoiled here in Kansas City with a Woodcraft and a Rockler within 10 minutes.

[Craig Michael]

I have relatives in Williston, right outside Burlington. As far as I know there are no Rockler's or Woodcrafts in the state. There used to be a Western tool in South Burlington near the airport but they closed a few years ago. That was a great place though. All kinds of powermatic, jet, dovetail jigs, every hand tool, etc. They had nearly every tool you may or may not use. But they are gone now. I don't know of any other places. There are a few hardwood suppliers but to me they are on the pricey side and they are limited somewhat. Northend hardwood is one, but there are a few others. http://www.northendhardwoods.com/

The worst thing about Vt is, it is a very small state. I think pop is 400,000 statewide and Burlington is the biggest town/city at about 30k in population. Suppliers in the Burlington area are few for everything (there just are not many people), if one of the few in the Burlington area do not have it, you'll be going 100 miles to find it or get it shipped in.

With respect to the state, I would really look in to the taxes, real estate taxes, etc. I'm certain you'll be paying a lot more than you are accustom to. Also, if you prefer "cooler" weather, vt has that in the late spring and early fall. In the summer it is pretty warm, not quite KC warm but not cool. The winter will be much harsher than you are accustom to. You'll see snow on the top of Mt Mansfield (Stowe ski area, you can see the back of it from the Burlington area) in October. And from there on through Feb it is cold or very cold. This year was abnormally warm. But a typical winter, you will not have a day above 32 degree for a high for weeks to a month on end. It is a brutal winter (and very long). The skiing up there is good, Stowe, mad river glen, sugarbush, smugglers notch, etc. Mad river glen is the best value, the others are expensive even by the north east standards.

If you are looking for cooler climate, lakes, mountains for skiing, and wood working stuff, I would look at the lakes region in New Hampshire. Much better state for taxes (RE taxes are higher than most states because NH has no sales tax or income tax). The lakes area by laconia, meredith, moultonborough, etc. has all kinds of lakes, mountains are a short ride north (Loon, cannon, etc. are 30 minutes), the climate is cool and cold in the winter but better than Vt. For woodworking there are woodcraft and rockler store in the southern part of the state, Highland Hardwoods is a very good hardwood and exotic lumber source (most is rough, some is jointed and planed). http://www.highlandhardwoods.com/ Brentwood Machinery is right near Highland, a top tool seller. In NH you are much closer to all kinds of suppliers, Boston area if need be, etc.

[Tim Morton]

I've lived in vermont most of my life...and i can tell you that there are some real serious furniture makes down here in southern vermont and i can't image a better place to live. Haven't locked ny doors or taken my key out of my car in the past 20 years or so...that being said..no woodcrafts or rocklers here...if thats what you are looking for you might try our neighbors to the east...NH.

Real estate market is soft and rates are as low as they are going to be so if i were you i would take a trip out here and poke around...choose burlington if you want to be around people and shopping and don't mind traffic. Choose southern vermont if are looking for a nice house with some land and are ok going the entire winter without seeing your neighbors...

We have great skiing all over the state and some real nice places to eat...and the occasional "culture" if you look hard enough...and like i said..i wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

[Peter Pedisich]

Roger,

I have taken summer road trips to the following spots in New England that I can recommend:

1) Burlington, VT - Loved it! But it can get warm and muggy there in the summer, too.
2) Woodstock, VT - Loved it! small historic town.
3) Portland, Maine - Loved it!
4) Cape Ann / Gloucester / Rockport, Ma. - Loved it, one of my favorite vacations ever.
5) Plymouth to Cohasset coast, Ma. / great place to live.

Sounds like Burlington, Vt, or Hanover, NH would be a good fit to your list.

Good luck,

Pete

[Carl Beckett]

I live in Northern MA, and have traveled a bit in the VT NH ME areas. Burlington is a little too far and isolated for my tastes. But it just depends on how close you want to be to certain things ( a lot of people fly out of Montreal when traveling to from Burlington )

A friend of mine is retiring to the area from Chicago. He is liking the portsmith NH area. A little closer to the coast, and to Boston.

[Tim Morton]

I live in Northern MA, and have traveled a bit in the VT NH ME areas. Burlington is a little too far and isolated for my tastes. But it just depends on how close you want to be to certain things ( a lot of people fly out of Montreal when traveling to from Burlington )

A friend of mine is retiring to the area from Chicago. He is liking the portsmith NH area. A little closer to the coast, and to Boston.

my daughter and her husband are in portsmouth...love that place. (and they have a woodcraft):)

[Jim Matthews]

Burlington is a vibrant college town.

If you like being around young people, it can be good.
It is on the lee side of Lake Champlain and Winter can be harsh. (Kansans can handle it, but it's not in the Sun belt.)

I had a VERY good experience with Bob Fletcher at the Vermont Woodworking school (http://www.vermontwoodworkingschool.com/FACULTY.html).
He would be an excellent resource for what you might expect.

May I recommend you consider renting for your first year?
The property market in a seasonal destination like Burlington can be volatile.

A blended shop situation - small tools at your home, heavier equipment in a co-op will keep your requirements manageable.

<http://www.city-data.com/forum/vermont/18646-winter-icy-roads-heating-etc.html>

[CPeter James]

You should look into New Hampshire. We have no sales or income tax. We have a very active wood workers group, the Guild of New Hampshire Woodworkers (www.gnhw.org). We have many furniture masters here. We have the League of New Hampshire Craftsmen and their Summer fair (http://www.nhcrafts.org). We have a Rockler and a Woodcraft and did I say NO SALES TAX! We have ski mountains and we have large lakes. We have many colleges like Dartmouth, Colby Sawyer, and many more. Lots of cultural activities. Come on over.

CPeter

[Peter Kelly]

Can't go wrong with either Vermont or New Hampshire! Burlington is small but only 2 hrs from Montreal. Many excellent woodworking supply places there too including Charles Gentmantel: http://www.gentmantel.com

Also, the Adirondacks are just on the other side of the Champlain Valley. Awesome scenery.

[Brian W Evans]

Roger,

I recently (and somewhat regretfully) moved out of Vermont. I lived near Montpelier (about 45 minutes from Burlington) but I had considered living in Burlington when I first moved there. There's a lot to like about Burlington, although it has gotten quite crowded and commercial in the past 10 years. It is also a fairly expensive place to live. If you don't need to be in Burlington itself, I would consider something like Colchester, Williston, or even Saint Albans - you'll be close to Burlington and still in the Champlain Valley, but property values will be a lot lower.

As Tim said, there are some amazing furniture makers in VT. Look at the readers' gallery in FWW and notice how many pieces come from VT - way out of proportion to the population. There is also most of what you would need in the way of woodworking supplies, if you know where to look. I found the following places helpful:

Russell Supply (http://www.russellsupply.com/) - Not really geared toward woodworking but has a nice selection of General woodworking equipment and all the usual construction tools. Has some clamps and router bits.

Spooner Specialties (http://www.spoonerspec.com/) - In Montpelier, a dedicated woodworking supply shop. Full line PM, Jet, Festool, SawStop, etc. Also sells a lot of Veritas stuff, router bits, and some hand tools.

Burlington also has the usual Lowes, HD, Ace, Sears, etc.

You can't swing a cat in VT without hitting some guy who has his own sawmill so all kinds of local lumber is readily available, especially if you buy in bulk. If that's not your thing, Burlington has:

Northend Hardwoods (http://www.northendhardwoods.com/) - Expensive but close by. Has a wide selection of exotics plus some interesting slabs, burls, etc. Good specialty plywood selection.

Morse Hardwoods (http://www.morsehardwoods.com/) - In Colchester, which is essentially local to Burlington. Hit-or-miss sometimes with what's in stock but usually a good supply of the traditional Northeast hardwoods and a few exotics (mostly ones that are used in millwork). Good quality plywood but limited to the usual maple, oak, cherry. Much better prices than Northend.

Johnson Lumber (http://www.vermontlumber.com) - About 45 minutes south of Burlington with a very large inventory and the best prices you'll find.


Some other things to consider about Burlington:



The closest major city is Montreal, Quebec (a beautiful city with lots going on), at about 2 hours. Next is Boston at close to 4 hours. New York is about 5.
The Champlain Valley is warmer than many other parts of VT but by no means warm. There are occasionally whole weeks where the temperature doesn't get above 0 (Fahrenheit)
It is definitely a left-leaning place - think Ben & Jerry's, Bernie Sanders, Fish (the band), etc. Some other parts of Vermont are slightly more conservative.
It's the home of the Magic Hat brewery which hosts parades and other events around Burlington in addition to having great beer.
The lake is gorgeous but cold. People swim in it and boat on it, but for most of the year it's just nice to look at.
Burlington has lots of cultural events and great restaurants.
The airport is small but always seemed to have flights going where I wanted to go.


I loved Vermont but it is remote and almost entirely rural. The cold and snow are major parts of life there. If these things don't bother you, VT has a lot to offer.

Good luck on your decision. Feel free to PM me if you have questions

[Al Weber]

I moved from NH about 3 years ago due to three age related things. The first was the winter weather which gets to be a pain when you have to plow snow for 6 months of the year. The second was the "black fly" season which runs from Mother's Day to Father's Day and during which you either put up with bugs in your mouth, eyes and ears when outside or you wear a mesh net covering your upper body and head. Lastly was the fact that I could no longer afford to live there despite the "lack of income tax". Be warned that there is also a fifth season on NH and VT - Mud Season during which all dirt roads are closed to heavy traffic. First of all, if you are living off interest and dividends in retirement, there is a tax on those dollars. They may not be income to those with only retirement plans but they are income to those of us having to supplement our SS or retirement with savings. Lastly, the taxes on our home (200 years old on 50 acres of woods) was about $8500 a year. The local school systems are inordinately inefficient in many areas and they take the majority of tax dollars.

Even so, if I could afford it, I would still live in New England. It is a woodworkers dream but with the exception of lumber, you won't find a lot of tool dealers in either NH or VT. I bought most things through the internet but one can always go to Maine for Lie Nielsen or Portsmouth NH for Woodcraft.

Good luck in finding your next home. Just be aware of the trade-offs no matter where you go. By the way, we now live in eastern TN which has many advantages but several disadvantages as well.