Planes.

[Rick Fisher]

I am somewhat new to nice hand tools. Power tool woodworker..

However, a couple of years ago I started with a Vertias low angle block.. I used it to augment power tool usage and found it a great compliment. The better I got at sharpening it, the more I used it ..

Today I have a small collection and want to add another plane...

What I have is the following..

Veritas LA Block.
Vertias scraping plane.
Veritas LA Jack
Veritas LA Smoother
Lie Nielsen #5
Veritas LG Shoulder plane.

Personally, I like the look of the Lie Nielsen better than my Veritas assortment.. From a performance aspect, I cant see an advantage to one brand over another.

My favorite plane is the Shoulder plane, I use it for trimming mortise and tenon joints for the best fit I can make, and actually really like doing it .. lol

So I am wondering.. Perhaps you plane guru's can tell me.. what am I missing ?

I got the hankering to buy another plane.. I use them for things like removing snipe, trimming end grain, and would love to be able to finish a planed surface.. Today I can do it if the board is narrower than the plane.. lol :o

I am leaning Lie Nielsen, for only aesthetic reasons..

I had considered a medium or small shoulder plane, but also considered a #4 smoother ..

Love to get some guidance from someone who knows what they are looking at ..

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Honestly? Given what you've described, I'd be at a loss as to what to purchase, and maybe look at whether I wanted some handsaws or chisels or something else.

I'd recomend a jointer, but it may very well be something that you don't use if you work mostly by power. Even if I had the gear to do those jobs by power, I'd still pull out the plane a lot.

You've got two jacks, so one can be set rougher than the other; and you've already got a plane (the LA smoother) that should be able to a perfectly fine job as a finish smoother, although I do like bevel down planes more for this job. If your wood is coming out of the machines really flat and the grain is agreeing with you, you could probably use the jack as a pretty functional smoother, too. I'd only really look at smaller shoulder plane if you frequently find the large one unwieldy.

A router plane is nice for cleaning up and adjusting things like dadoes and tenon cheeks, and that might fit in your workflow. I still don't use mine enough though - I tend to just reach for a broad chisel.

A plow plane is a joy to use, and unless I'm doing a lot of grooving, I find I enjoy it more than most power methods.

I'd rather look at my work and say, "here's something that's been annoying, I'd like to get a new tool to make it easier", than "I'd like a new tool - what's a good problem to solve?" Unless you're finding a missing something in your working, I'd be tempted to spend the money on good wood.

[Chris Griggs]

Josh has given you very good advice. I would say that if you want something to supplement your power tool work get a router plane (although they are essential, for me, in the hand tool shop as well).

If you want to start doing more of your work by hand, a plow plane may be the way to go.

...but really, like Josh said, think of things that are difficult or annoying you and then go from there.

[Don Dorn]

Count me among those saying your bench plane collection doesn't need ehanced. A quality jointer, smoother and jack gets you where you need to go in that arena . I agree with Chris on the plough plane but would add that combination planes in general have allot of appeal to me. I have many but use three that see allot of action - a plough (Record 044), a Rabbet (Record 778), a T&G (LN 48) and one I use a great deal for beading (Record 050). Obviously, my opinion, but I'm having allot of fun with them and didn't realize how useful and fast they are.

[Maurice Ungaro]

IF you would like to pike up a quality jointer, John Collocia has one for sale in the Classified forum. It's a LN, and it's only $330. Other than that, I agree with getting a router, plow, and maybe a rabbet plane.

[john davey]

I would have said jointer as well but I think you are using your machines there. You mentioned another shoulder or maybe a #4. If going smoother I would go with a #3 since you already have a larger smoother. I think you would like a router plane. I never realized how often I would use one until I got it. It is not a one trick pony it does all types of cleanup needs. It would compliment your shoulder plane. Of course a smaller shoulder is also a good option. Ah hell get em all :)...

[Prashun Patel]

You have a nice assortment. I can only tell you what I'd buy in yr shoes:

1) Router plane
2) Apron plane. The Veritas low angle block is notoriously large. (You might even consider the knob and tote and have yrself a workable #2.) An apron (or 102) style plane is great for smaller work. I have a LN and a Veritas 102-style and I'm partial to the LN.

[paul cottingham]

You have a very nice "start". Believe me, its a slippery slope. My next planes would be:
1 jointer. I use mine for everything.
2) plow. I can't use one, because of a serious problem with my hands, but every time it takes me forever to set up a router todo something I could do with a plow in 30 secs, I get aggravated. And that's not the point of the craft,is it?
3) router plane. Super handy and useful for cleaning up joinery.
4) LV no.80 scraper. Love this plane, really easy to set up, and sharpen. Don't need "an advanced degree in geometry" to set it up. (I think the schwarz said that)

[Brian Kent]

Router plane. I use it for all kinds of things that require an even depth.

Jointer plane.

I don't have a plow plane, so I don't know how much fun they are.

[Richard Line]

I agree with the suggestions for a router and plow planes, but you may also want to consider getting the higher angle blades for your LA Smoother and/or LA Jack planes. The higher angle blades will let you do and even better job of smoothing surfaces. Also think about a shooting board to work with either the LA Smoother or LA Jack.

[Jim Koepke]

All of the previous answers are very good responses to the minimal information provided.

My opinion might not be that good since my philosophy is to get at least one of each. It took me a lot of effort a few days ago to set down a type 9 Stanley #3 that was in an antique store in Olympia, WA for $30. Heck, I only have one...


I got the hankering to buy another plane.. I use them for things like removing snipe, trimming end grain, and would love to be able to finish a planed surface.. Today I can do it if the board is narrower than the plane.. lol

This tells me or at least implies you have a power joiner/planer with the snipe comment. The comment about not being able to plane a surface to smooth if the board isn't narrower than the plane tells another story.

Bevel up planes are more likely to leave tracks than a bevel down in my experience, which is only my experience. Cambering the blades can help greatly to eliminate plane tracks.

My personal suggestion would be to try and find an old Stanley #4 to fix up, but an LN #4 would be a lot nicer.

Your best approach may be to define your greatest need first and then find the tool that is best for tackling the problem.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

I would suggest multiple blades for the LA jack - with a range of bevels, that plane can do the work of four.

Cambered @ 22.5 degrees
Straight @ 33 degrees
Straight @ 43 degrees
Toothing blade

The hard part is keeping them straight - I use a Sharpie marker.

Getting the lowest angle cambered at 22.5 degrees takes a long time.
The others go much more quickly.

+ 1 on the router plane. I use mine for the aforementioned tenon trimming, but it's also suitable for laying grooves for drawer bottoms, etc.

[paul cottingham]

I would suggest multiple blades for the LA jack - with a range of bevels, that plane can do the work of four.

Cambered @ 22.5 degrees
Straight @ 33 degrees
Straight @ 43 degrees
Toothing blade

The hard part is keeping them straight - I use a Sharpie marker.

Getting the lowest angle cambered at 22.5 degrees takes a long time.
The others go much more quickly.

+ 1 on the router plane. I use mine for the aforementioned tenon trimming, but it's also suitable for laying grooves for drawer bottoms, etc.
+1 On the extra blades. It's like having a whole new plane.

[john davey]

I agree on the blades. I have the LA jack and BU smoother. I debated between the la smoother and bu smoother. Since the LA smoother has the same 25 deg blade as the LA jack getting the BU smoother with the 38 deg blade was a selling point. I can use the jack on the shooting board which was the plus to the LA smoother. Of course finding the smoother here used kinda made the deal even sweeter :)

[Jim Neeley]

You mention using your shoulder for trimming tennon shoulders and they work great for making them straight and perpendicular to the cheeks.

For making the cheeks parallel and trimming their thickness, a router plane excels. It excels by cutting a surface (cheek) parallel to another surface (the side of the board). It you take the time to make both sides of the board parallel, the router works to make the cheek smooth and coplanar for a perfect fit. Compared to other tools (for this purpose) you can lower the bit a couple of thou and trim precisely that amount off of the face of the tenon. For all but the shortest tenons a large router plane works better than a small one as it provides more reference area from the side of the board.

This only makes ense if you think you'll make sufficient M+T's to justify it.

Just my opinion, YMMV...

Jim

[Bill Moser]

Given your current range, I'd add a jointer. You have lots of new planes -- try something old. Not an LN or LV, but a Stanley #7 or #8, or 607, 608 (bedrock) made in the 1910's-30's or earlier. Fix it up, lap the sole, get a new Hock blade (or Clifton -- my fav, or whatever). LN and LV make great tools, but the old ones weren't too shabby either -- really, they were manufactured in a time when craftsmen relied on them for their work.

[Tony Shea]

Given your current range, I'd add a jointer. You have lots of new planes -- try something old. Not an LN or LV, but a Stanley #7 or #8, or 607, 608 (bedrock) made in the 1910's-30's or earlier. Fix it up, lap the sole, get a new Hock blade (or Clifton -- my fav, or whatever). LN and LV make great tools, but the old ones weren't too shabby either -- really, they were manufactured in a time when craftsmen relied on them for their work.

I don't believe that getting a bedrock Stanley to be worth the $ if you are interested in using the plane, not collecting. Many times you can get a LN (in the #7 and #8 jointer size) for the same price or less and have a great working tool right out of the box. And lapping the sole of a plane 22"+ is not a task I would reccomend to anyone! I stay away from lapping anything larger than a #4 and even then I avoid it if at all possible.

Get a router plane!! They are a great addition to someone who uses power tools to cut joinery. It can be tough to sneak up on a well fitting joint when using a power tools. If you had a router plane then you could just cut the joints fat with the power tools and work them to a perfect fit with a router plane. Especially tenons. I honestly would reccomend a router plane to anyone asking what plane to buy next, neander or power.

And a plow is not a bad choice either, but most tasks can be done just as well with power tools. But the plow is much quieter and alot more fun.

[Curt Putnam]

Given the info provided, my preferences would be:

1: Jointer (#7 or #8) I have both and they are fun
2: Large Router plane with all blades
2: LV Small Plow plane with all blades & T&G attachment.
3: LV medium shoulder plane
4: LN 102 or LV Apron plane or a #3 sized smoother

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

A few folks have mentioned getting more blades for your low angle planes. I certainly enjoy having multiple blades for my LN low angle jack. If this is something you do, think about how you sharpen before you order - if you do most of your sharpening free hand, a blade already ground close to the angle you want is nice - I put a hollow grind on mine with a 6" dry grinder and with the thickness of those blades, it's real easy to freehand sharpen them to the desired camber and angle after a hollow grind, almost foolproof. If you sharpen with a jig, it's nice to just get a bunch of blades with a shallow angle, and then just use the jig to hone the appropriate secondary bevel on the working edge of the blade; this way you aren't spending a lot of time rubbing away metal far away from the cutting edge, so the job goes quicker.

Also, even if you don't usually surface your lumber by hand, it can be helpful to have a blade/plane combo set up for rougher work - if like a lot of folks your planer is wider than your jointer, when dealing with wide stock, it's easy enough to rough out one side of the piece flat enough to finish surfacing it with your powered planer rather than try and jig something up to make a narrower powered jointer work on the thicker stock or glue narrower boards to get a wider width.

[Rick Fisher]

Thanks for the great responses..

I am a terrible insomniac.. Often I will go out to the shop at midnight and work till 2:30 am .. Due to having a wife.. and being in a neighborhood, I won't use most of my machinery after about 9:00 PM .. The DC is a 4hp beast which would have the police at my place in 20 min.. My neighbors all seem to like me and I value that.

I found all sorts of tasks I could do " late night " ... cutting and fitting tenons .. finishing.. All sorts of stuff.. but it required tools.. I have a good assortment of Japanese hand saws.. I have always liked them.. recently I picked up a used LN dovetail saw and bought a Wenzloff cross cut saw.. Again to use at night, and I have an okay selection of chisels..

The more I use planes, the more I seem to " get it " .. its all about sharp to me .. The sharper they are, the more skilled I seem to be .. haha.. Honestly, I have a hankering .. I am sure I am not the first person to get a " hankering " for a new tool..

I have looked at router planes and to be honest, didn't feel I would have the patience to figure them out..

So I am a noise maker by day, and a very amateur neander after dark. I will go to the LN website and have another look.. Thanks much ..

[Dan Carroll]

I am going to be a bit different take. I work with power tools and finish up with hand tools. I find I reach for my LN beading tool and the side rabbit plane alot. I really do not like cutting profiles with a power router and find I end up cleaning them up with the beading tool, especially across the grain. On the side rabbit, nothing else works as well for cleaning up the sides a groove or rabbit and getting that nice tight fit. I have a jointer and find I do not use it all that much more than a jack. I also have a stanely 45 and I do enjoy it, but cutting a bunch of grooves/dados with it is a pain and I end up using the dado cutter on the table saw and cleaing up the the side rabbit or the shoulder plane. Just my two cents.

[Bill McDermott]

1) Small bronze LA block plane from LN. You will use it on every project. It stays on the bench or in a pocket. Bonus - it appears to be right up your aesthetic alley.
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/images/102_sm.jpg (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/#)
2) Either small plough and/or router planes from Veritas are used far less often, but may change the way you approach work.
These will reinforce your adoption of handtool techniques becasue of the ease and speed with which simple grooves and rabbets can be knocked out.

3) Router plane. I agree with the comments above. Useful in many ways, especially as chisel skills are still improving (like mine).

[Jim Koepke]

Honestly, I have a hankering .. I am sure I am not the first person to get a " hankering " for a new tool..

Likewise, you surely won't be the last either.

jtk

[Charlie Buchanan]

A jointer--#7 for jointing panels, tabletops, and for edge-jointing for glue-up. Also a LN #3 smoother with high angle frog for smoothing difficult curly grain woods. Then for bench planes you will be set.

[Tony Shea]

I have looked at router planes and to be honest, didn't feel I would have the patience to figure them out..

A router plane really has a no learning curve associated with it. Extremely simple tool. Its' purpose is to create clean flat surfaces that are perfectly parallel to the sole of the tool. Which is exactly what most mortise and tenon, dado, rabbets, etc, joinery is. I am shocked at how often I use this tool and really am not sure how I managed so well without it. It is my absolute favorite specialty plane.

I will say that I couldn't live without my LN #7 either. I'm not sure how most of you power tool guys can achieve tight and invisible glue lines without jointer planes. I was never happy with my panel glue-ups right off the power tools. Even a nice sharp power jointer will not produce a good enough surface. This is another plane I would not be without.

[Pinwu Xu]

Or maybe the side-rabbet? Either LN, LV, or Stanley ?

[Pinwu Xu]

How about Stanley 140 (or the newer LN models)? Or Stanley 95 (or the LV models -- both LH and RH), then you can find the smallish Stanley 103