New world "nickel test"?

[Van Huskey]

I was just sitting here thinking about the "nickel test" and how it is pretty easy to get a machine to pass, honestly most Asian made "light-weight" welded steel machines will pass it no problem straight from the factory with the "shipping bulge" in the belt. It is however pretty hard to get a machine to pass the "dime test" and was contemplating something in between or more informative but short of the serious expense of true test equipment. Then it hit me, the Iphone has all manner of motion sensors built in, thus there MUST be a vibration app... sure enough there are more than one, one I saw was free but the most interesting was stiffly priced at all of 99 cents! http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iseismograph/id319600048?mt=8

I don't know how well it will work since I don't have an Iphone and my wife is out of town but I have to try this out!!! I mean for 99 cents why not.

So there truely is an app for that, just hope it is sensitive enough to be meaningful.

[Steve Jenkins]

One test I saw was two golf balls stacked one on top of the other then the machine turned on.

[Van Huskey]

One test I saw was two golf balls stacked one on top of the other then the machine turned on.

That is an interesting one!

The thing that intrigues me about the "app" is that it charts and is downloadable, if it is sensitive and repeatable enough this would allow someone to objectively test whether say a link belt actually reduced vibration or the $30 they spent only made them think that it did.

[Bruce Page]

LOL! I would install data recorders on the re-entry vehicles and rocket motors whenever we would ship them around for testing & to the range for launch. They produced a downloadable record of g-force, vibration, temp & humidity for up to 30 days. They were test certified to NIST metrology standards and cost 22k each...

[Van Huskey]

LOL! I would install data recorders on the re-entry vehicles and rocket motors whenever we would ship them around for testing & to the range for launch. They produced a downloadable record of g-force, vibration, temp & humidity for up to 30 days. They were test certified to NIST metrology standards and cost 22k each...

Thats the sort of instruments I was dreaming about when that little Apple wonder came to mind. If my wife was at home I would be in the garage as we speak, moving my stored machines around to the one 240 outlet I have vibrating a little fruit.

[Bruce Page]

I just downloaded the app for my iPad. I'll let you know if it works.
Maybe I should send this info to my government friends and try to save a few taxpayer dollars!

[scott spencer]

If you don't have an Iphone, a cup of coffee should do! :D

http://americanwoodworker.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/tools/11450_5F00_vibration2.jpg

[Van Huskey]

Look forward to hearing what you think Bruce!

Scott, I tried that but when I tried to download it onto my laptop all the magic smoke came spewing out of the computer, guess I wasn't using the correct memory port! Plus the app is cheaper than coffee, at least what my wife drinks...

[Jeff Duncan]

I'll just be happy if guys everywhere stop acknowledging the infamous "nickel test"!

I have one shaper that has a belt so bad it almost walks off the pallet when winding down. Guess what, it still passes the nickel test:confused: At that point I realized how incredibly useless the nickel test was, and am now just annoyed even by hearing the phrase. I like the cup of coffee idea, unless the machine is in poor shape in which then you'll have the added pain of cleaning coffee off the machine:eek:

I like the i-phone idea.....will look forward to an update on this....

good luck,
JeffD

[daniel lane]

if you don't have an iphone, a cup of coffee should do! :d

http://americanwoodworker.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/communityserver.blogs.components.weblogfiles/tools/11450_5f00_vibration2.jpg


eeeeeeekk!!! Dinosaur!!!!

[Van Huskey]

I'll just be happy if guys everywhere stop acknowledging the infamous "nickel test"!

I have one shaper that has a belt so bad it almost walks off the pallet when winding down. Guess what, it still passes the nickel test:confused: At that point I realized how incredibly useless the nickel test was, and am now just annoyed even by hearing the phrase. I like the cup of coffee idea, unless the machine is in poor shape in which then you'll have the added pain of cleaning coffee off the machine:eek:

I like the i-phone idea.....will look forward to an update on this....

good luck,
JeffD

That is exactly what got me to thinking, the nickel test is too easy and the dime/penny test is often too far to the other extreme.

[Roger Feeley]

I found a free app for my Android phone. Next time I'm in the shop, I will measure my Sawstop. The app is a seismometer so it measures on the Richter scale.

[Van Huskey]

I found a free app for my Android phone. Next time I'm in the shop, I will measure my Sawstop. The app is a seismometer so it measures on the Richter scale.

There was al least one free one for the Apple as well, the .99 one looked cooler though.

[Jeff Miller]

Grizzly GO690 fifteen cent test.............that would be a nickle and a dime:D


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/woodfarmer/GO690/101_6702.jpg?t=1259716996






JEFF:)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/woodfarmer/GO690/101_6702.jpg?t=1259716996)

[Carpenter Mark]

Here's my test-
I walk up to the machine, look it over to see that it's in good condition first; then I flip the switch. Can I work safely and perform the operation needed with a minimum of fuss and accurately? Yes? Smooth machine. ;-)

[Jeff Miller]

Here's my test-
I walk up to the machine, look it over to see that it's in good condition first; then I flip the switch. Can I work safely and perform the operation needed with a minimum of fuss and accurately? Yes? Smooth machine. ;-)


You're no fun :D;)


JEFF:)

[Van Huskey]

Here's my test-
I walk up to the machine, look it over to see that it's in good condition first; then I flip the switch. Can I work safely and perform the operation needed with a minimum of fuss and accurately? Yes? Smooth machine. ;-)

That is a completly resonable stance! My thought beyond just interest was in how it could help in diagnostics. Especially when one buys a used machine it is sometimes hard to know if steps you are taking are actually helping or it is a placebo. My example of adding a link belt is a common "cure" but often it seems to be part of the issue but doesn't solve the whole problem. Would be nice to objectively know the link belt did or didn't truely help since if it didn't you could return the belt or use it in another application instead of being out $30 for something you only thought was part of the cause.

[Gary Herrmann]

If the machine can pass the nickel test while it's cutting wood, that's all I need to know. I appreciate the diagnostic approach, but it also sounds a bit like the question that comes up on the Neander forum - "how flat is flat?". Be it the back of a plane iron or a milled piece of wood.

More data isn't always the answer. Think in terms of statistical power analysis. If you measure something often enough, the resulting data can become meaningless. Also makes me think of one of Zeno's paradoxes. If you move half the distance from where you are to the wall, every time you take a step - do you ever get there? Mathematically no, but practically, yes.

Stats and Greek philosophers at 7:30pm on a Friday. Time to go watch a movie with the kids.

[Van Huskey]

First, I absolutely agree with most everything you said, Gary. In the end for me it isn't a search for more date it is a serach for better data. If you were checking the sole of a plane with a straight edge and tape measure, better data would be helpful. Alas, end the end we don;t really need a test for vibration we are more than well equipped enough to do that with our body and the measuring instrument just like I can tell if a bandsaw frame is flexing enough to negatively effect the cut enough to need remedy but I can't help it, I like to put a number with the feeling. I am the kinda guy that bought an upper level Fluke to test the inrush current of my machines not a single one of which has tripped a breaker on startup, information for information sake...

[Darren Ford]

This Harbor Freight nickel tester gives me all the accuracy I need.


232934

[harry hood]

Zeno didn't know about measure theory and Lebesgue integrals it's not a problem.

[harry hood]

You have the old model. The new one that I have has a flat filed on it.

[Van Huskey]

OK this is where we are at now, Lebesque integrals... man, conceptionally I can get past Riemann, maybe I should ask Siri. :D

[Mike Goetzke]

I have an iPod Touch and have had both vibration and sound meters on it. I have used them in the shop but really haven't used it to tune any tools.

Mike

[Ole Anderson]

Hmm, this thread is kind of parallel to the question: when I do the five cut test, is one one thousandth close enough?

And if there is a vibration app, what other apps would be useful to woodworkers? An inclinometer for setting blade angles comes to mind.

[Steven Hsieh]

Stupid question

What is the purpose of the nickel test?

[Van Huskey]

Stupid question

What is the purpose of the nickel test?

It is just a historical, easily repeatable test that anyone can do to show that a machine produces less than some relatively certain amount of vibration. I would guess it is first tried by a person when they move from an cheap and or old direct drive table saw to something like a full cabinet saw. With the nickel standing on edge it is likely the nickel will fall everytime you turn the cheap table saw and when you turn the cabinet saw on the nickel will remain upright. Just one of those things woodworkers like to do.

[michael veach]

232965​still an inexpensive saw from Lowe's

[Van Huskey]

232965​still an inexpensive saw from Lowe's

Now rip a piece of 4/4 hard maple at normal feed rate... that is my test. To me the amount of vibration is only useful when you are using the machine, any decent tool should be able to pass any US coin test just powered up or it has a real problem.

[michael veach]

Good point.

[ray hampton]

I am not trying to be funny but can someone do a coin test with a jack hammer ?

[Alan Lightstone]

A Loonie test, perhaps?

[Van Huskey]

I am not trying to be funny but can someone do a coin test with a jack hammer ?

Absolutely, the trick is getting one to pass it...

[ray hampton]

this is what I like about the creek, there is more wise-a''ed here than in the White House, I hope that we are talking different people