Accessory Blades for the Veritas Small Plow

[Derek Cohen]

This is a short pictorial on setting up the Small Plow to cut T&Gs. This is a new-to-me plane, and I took a few pics as I was working out the kinks and having a little play. I hope this helps some of you.


Link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/AccessoryBladesfortheVeritasSmallPlow.html


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/AccessoryBladesfortheVeritasSmallPlow_html_m287f15 29.jpg


Regards from Perth


Derek

[David Weaver]

That explains where the tongue on the jarrah in the other thread came from!

[Adam Lewis]

thanks for all the info derek. i should have the new stuff in the mail today. now i just need to get the lumber and get started.

[Chris Griggs]

Just to add to Derek's already stellar write-up. This is one of those things that seems a little finicky the first couple times you use it. There are a couple little setup quirks, but once you get a handle on them the changeover is very fast. I'd say 1-minute tops. I recommend that you read the instructions for this thing.

The first thing to be aware of that will trip you up if you do not pay attention,is making sure that the add-on sliding skate is in parallel with the sole and the fence. If it is out of parallel you will not be able to adjust the fence easily or at all as the tolerances on the rod holes in the plane body and the sliding skate are pretty tight. Its very easy to over tighten the knob that attaches the sliding skate and push the skate out of parallel. There is another adjusting screw that pushes it back into parrallel, but if the first knob is overtightened, the parallel adjusting screw won't do its job. This sounds really finicky and the first time you do it, it feels that way, but again after the first time or two you get a hang of how tight to make things to adjust the skate into parallel and it become VERY quick and easy.

The other thing I have found is that when using the wide blades or the tongue blades you do not want to take as heavy a shaving as you would with narrow blade setup. Because the sliding skate is up against the plane body there is less places for the shavings to go and they will get bunched up in the escapement if you try to take really heavy cuts, especially in hard or dense wood. If you are having problems with clogging, just lighten the cut up a little and thing will flow very nicely.

Those are the only two quirky things that threw me off the first time I used the attachment. Just being aware of them makes a huge difference, and again, I can't emphasize enough how quickly you get a handle on them. Once you do, the kit works extremely well and becomes very simple to use.

I'll get some good use out of the tongue blades for cabinet backs. I don't know how much I'll actually use the wide blades since I rarely need a groove wider than 1/4" and already have a skew rabbet. However, for someone who has the plow already, but no dedicated rabbet plane the wide blades make the plow into a very nice little rabbeting plane. A dedicated rabbet plane can do more sizes of rabbets and for me the wide blades would never replace it (since rabbet sizes are limited to blade widths), but I will say that the plow, IMHO, is actually a bit easier to use then the skew rabbet, on long grain rabbets in particular - because there is not nicker cross grain rabbets require you to first score a line but thats never a bad idea to do anyway.

One last thing I'll add. I was really impressed by how well the second skate supports the cut. You get really clean results - I even plowed a 3/4" groove through a big swirl of grain in white oak and got no splitting or tearing on the sides/shoulders of the groove. I don't think I'd ever need to do that in reality, but it was pretty impressive nonetheless and nice to know I could if I needed too.

[Sanjeev Agarwal]

I was hoping that the cutters would be designed such that they are automatically aligned once you replace the tongue and groove cutters without having to move the fence. All this manual alignment means you may not get a perfect fit and will need to do some planing on the boards after all.

And if you do have to move the fence, you might as well not convert the tongue configuration to a groove configuration. Just offset the fence and use the tongue cutter to cut the groove. Might mean less fiddling. OR you could just use the groove cutters and cut the tongue in two passes which is what i did this weekend.

I had bought this plane over the LN 3 months ago upon hearing about the upcoming T&G cutters but I am not all that excited right now... It is more versatile but at the expense of accuracy and time and when you add the costs of all the cutters it becomes one expensive plane.

[Chris Griggs]

I had bought this plane over the LN 3 months ago upon hearing about the upcoming T&G cutters but I am not all that excited right now... It is more versatile but at the expense of accuracy and time and when you add the costs of all the cutters it becomes one expensive plane.

If I were cutting a lot of tongue and grooves, I agree, I would want a dedicate plane for that as well. The small plow is first and foremost a small plow plane- I don't know any quicker easier way to create a groove. I think of the t&g kit as a nice add-on/handy feature when you need it.... For me, the t&g blades are definitely preferable to taking multiple passes with the standard blades, but it is still however an add-on. It's actually a lot to cram into such a small plane and I don't think there would be room to do more than they did.

If you are doing a lot of tongue and grooves and want a dedicated t&g plane, my recommendation would be to keep the plow and use it as a plow, skip the add-ons, and spring for a dedicated t&g plane. A dedicated tool almost always does a better job at its dedicated task than a multi purpose tool will.

[Derek Cohen]

Chris, thanks for the reminder about the sliding skate adjuster. I overlooked mentioning this, and will add it in.

Sanjeev, here is a reality check: there is no plane I know where you add wood and it produces the finished article.

In a new T&G plane, the choice is between the LN #48/49 and the Veritas Small Plow. It comes down to this: In the Veritas you have to adjust the blades (put one on, take one off, put one on). In the LN you have to adjust the wood (it will only work with a particular board thickness). It is up to you to decide which is easier or where your priorities lie (frequency of making T&G joints, costs and ease of use, and purchase one plane with extra blades or purchase two planes).

With regard accuracy, in my limited experience with both planes, they are as accurate as each other. The LN is easier to set up. Absolutely no doubt about it. If I was to be working with 1/2" thick boards only, it would be my firm choice. If versatility was my preference, there is no doubt either that the Veritas is the way to go. That you have to align it (where the LN just requires flicking the fence around), is really no biggie. Knowing what to do makes the job about 30 seconds longer. Even now I have come up with another way to foolproof alignment - simply place a small steel ruler against the tongue when you align the grooving blade.

There is no guarantee that either the LN or the Veritas will produce a perfect join - a human is pushing the plane and, if you do not maintain good fence-board contact, the tongue or the groove can end up out of alignment. Neither of these planes is really a production tool (although the Stanley would have been used this way before machinery took over). If you want guaranteed results, you need to use a powered router. I believe that either of these planes is going to do everything that you would want in the average handtool shop.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Griggs]

In the LN you have to adjust the wood (it will only work with a particular board thickness). It is up to you to decide which is easier or where your priorities lie (frequency of making T&G joints, costs and ease of use, and purchase one plane with extra blades or purchase two planes).


This is a good point that I didn't even think of. One cool thing about the LV is that you can center the tongue on just about any sized board.

Derek, one more thing I realized messing around last night that you might want to try and possibly add to your write-up. Setting the depth stop on the blade I found is done easier as the last step. After the t&g blade is installed and the depth of cut is set, you can set the depth stop just as you would on the plow in its regular setup. That is, set a double square for the depth you want, hold it so the cutting edge of the tongue blade rests against the square (gently, as not to dull the blade with metal to metal contact and making sure that the square is as parallel to the sole as possible), using the long part of the allen wrench loosen the depth stop so that is slides down against the projecting ruler, retighten. Give it try, it sounds more complicated then it is. Trying to set the depth stop with the blade out of the tool as the LV instructions seem to suggest requires a lot more guess and check - setting the stop with the blade in the tool is much more accurate.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Sanjeev's reply makes me think though - you could probably jig up a system of spacers to add to the fence to allow you to cut both the tongue and groove with the same blade. This would only work if the thickness of wood you're working with is sized appropriately so that the non-cutting portion of the tongue-ing blade doesn't cut away at the remaining wood in the groove. But if you accurately milled a spacer to the appropriate size, couldn't you cut the tongue in the portion derek shows, and then attach the spacer to the fence to move the blade in relation to the work further towards the reference face, allowing you to cut the groove with the non-reference face side of the tongue blade. You'd need an accurately milled spacer for each tongue blade, of course.

You'd still have to set the fence to get the tongue centered for the first portion, but then the spacer would simply move blade towards the reference face one blades width over - it wouldn't really matter if the tongue was centered perfectly or anything.

[Sanjeev Agarwal]

Chris & Derek: Completely agree with your comments and I did realize that even before. I think the key point is what Chris mentioned that "The small plow is first and foremost a small plow plane" and "think of the t&g kit as a nice add-on/handy feature when you need it...."

[Derek Cohen]

Setting the depth stop on the blade I found is done easier as the last step. After the t&g blade is installed and the depth of cut is set, you can set the depth stop just as you would on the plow in its regular setup. That is, set a double square for the depth you want, hold it so the cutting edge of the tongue blade rests against the square (gently, as not to dull the blade with metal to metal contact and making sure that the square is as parallel to the sole as possible), using the long part of the allen wrench loosen the depth stop so that is slides down against the projecting ruler, retighten.

Hi Chris

I shall add a few more pointers after I have used the accessories a while longer. My initial aim was to get something up on the T&G blade set up as I thought the LV website version lacked for some detail.

In practice it may be that one would have a basic set up for each blade, and then vary this for wood type if necessary (for expansion purposes - ideally, the tongue should be slightly shorter than the groove). The 1/4" blade cannot be adjusted and will only accept a depth of 1/4". For the others I plan to simply make a template with a couple of depths, and use this to set the blade beforehand. Quick and simple.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Adam Lewis]

i received mine last night in the mail. i was so exited that i started in right away....that's right....i didn't even sharpen the blades.... just took them straight out of the box. i had two small red oak scraps laying around both about 12" long, and i got to work. i cut the tongue first, and the groove second. it was a piece of cake. i just arbitrarily set the tongue blade to a depth, and matched that depth with the groove cutter. i nailed it the first time and everything lined up perfectly.
there are lots of parts, but it is very easy to use.
thank you rob. you guys did a great job again.

adam

[Chris Griggs]

Hi Derek, its actually pretty impressive you got this up so fast and I agree that pictorial instruction was definitely needed for this. LV would do well to make a setup and use video for it too; there only so much that can be conveyed in the written instructions, and I think that for this tool any written instruction makes the setup seem more complicated than it actually is - as always, you did a good job with breaking it down into simple steps.

I totally agree that you really would have only one basic setup for each blade, there is no reason to adjust the depth each time. You would really only need to tweak the depth stops every few honings or when you grind. I really like your template idea for this - looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

[Derek Cohen]

I have updated the pictorial. Once I get the template done, I will upload that as well. Probably this weekend.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Interesting, from reading all the comments it seems this plane and blade combination has all the same intricacies of setting up for tounge & groove with a Stanley 45.

I just set up two and leave them when I am doing a bunch of T&G.

As for slight mismatches between matched boards there is always putting a bead or a chamfer on the tongue board to disquise the misalignment.

One cause of misalignment is forgetting to use the fence off of the face side of both pieces. DAMHIKT!

jtk

[Brian Cameron]

Sitting here..looking at my Small Router plane and wondering....where,s mine? :)

[Bill Rhodus]

One aspect I feel has been overlooked in these posts is the value/utility these accessories provide. As a previous poster wrote, it is a fairly expensive option if you buy this set-up to T&G but not so if you use the plane for a plow, rebate, and T&G plane. I believe many woodworkers could sell their plow and straight cutting rebate planes to offset much of the cost. Also Derek, your presentations would be much more presentable if you were not shooting your photos on that ratty workbench.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Bill

:) :)

Before ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuidingaBench1_html_m2feaf3e6.jpg

After ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/IDeclareThisBenchFinished_html_3e750470.jpg


I am amazed that I could do any work at all on the old bench, which I used for 18 years.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Griggs]

One aspect I feel has been overlooked in these posts is the value/utility these accessories provide. As a previous poster wrote, it is a fairly expensive option if you buy this set-up to T&G but not so if you use the plane for a plow, rebate, and T&G plane. I believe many woodworkers could sell their plow and straight cutting rebate planes to offset much of the cost. Also Derek, your presentations would be much more presentable if you were not shooting your photos on that ratty workbench.

Couldn't agree more. And if you already own the plow, the upgrade is quite reasonable - I had expected that it would be more costly, and was happy to see how reasonable the price turned out to be. It works really well as a rabbet plane, and in that mode actually has less steep of a learning curve then the skew rabbet. I think the folks who will benefit from the wide blades the most are those who want/need to be able to cut rabbets and plow grooves by hand but don't want/are not able to buy two dedicated joinery planes. I bought my joinery planes is the following order: router, skew rabbet, and the plow last, but with the attachment I'd say that the plow is no question the top pick for a first joinery plane - it really can do a lot quite effectivley, and even with the add on it's about as idiot proof to use as planes come. My router plane has long been the favorite child (since it relatively inexpensive and is just so dang useful), but the plow has given it a run for its money.

[Sanjeev Agarwal]

Sanjeev's reply makes me think though - you could probably jig up a system of spacers to add to the fence to allow you to cut both the tongue and groove with the same blade. This would only work if the thickness of wood you're working with is sized appropriately so that the non-cutting portion of the tongue-ing blade doesn't cut away at the remaining wood in the groove. But if you accurately milled a spacer to the appropriate size, couldn't you cut the tongue in the portion derek shows, and then attach the spacer to the fence to move the blade in relation to the work further towards the reference face, allowing you to cut the groove with the non-reference face side of the tongue blade. You'd need an accurately milled spacer for each tongue blade, of course.

You'd still have to set the fence to get the tongue centered for the first portion, but then the spacer would simply move blade towards the reference face one blades width over - it wouldn't really matter if the tongue was centered perfectly or anything.

Yes, I think this would make the process so much quicker and really a snap like that on the LN. You could easily make these and attach with rare earth magnets to the fence (although i'm not sure if they come in as thin sizes so as to attach a 1/8" spacer). Maybe Rob can produce yet more accessorries for this plane.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Yes, I think this would make the process so much quicker and really a snap like that on the LN. You could easily make these and attach with rare earth magnets to the fence (although i'm not sure if they come in as thin sizes so as to attach a 1/8" spacer). Maybe Rob can produce yet more accessorries for this plane.


Put the rare earth magnets in the wooden sub-fence of the plane, and then the spacers can have a bit of metal attached to them - something thin like a 1/8" spacer could be a strip of metal laminated to some UHMW.

Magnets seem like the easy way to go, but you'd want a lip or bump or something that mates with the leading edge of the fence to keep it from sliding back in use.

[Jim Koepke]

Since there are a boat load of multi-planes already in my shop, my attention has wandered in and out of this thread.

Today is a bit less harried than the last few days.

My curiosity makes me wonder if this plane could work with beading blades.

It is my hope to someday be able to handle one of these and give it a workout. With my current accumulation there really isn't any way to justify acquiring one of these to my wife.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I think derek said in another thread that he had used the 45's beading blades with this plane

EDIT:

Yep. (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?185243-veritas-tongue-and-groove-plane&p=1931992#post1931992)