IRS Auctions

[Josh Hulit]

Has anyone bought tools from irsauctions.com? Found a few that weren't too far away, but a lot of the prices seem too good to be true.

[Van Huskey]

The auctions are like eBay, or any auction for that matter, you have NO idea what the prices actually are until the auction ends. I bid a lot, win rarely but I ain't gonna over pay, in fact I am gonna get a steal or wait unless it is exactly what I want. If you can't preview the item in person bid like you would on a used car that you couldn't drive first. Check the listing to see what the requirements are for removal, often their is a requirement of insurance to remove something that is not hand carry. If you don't have the insurance and don't want to pay a rigger/freight call and determine if items you are interested in meet the hand carry rules, sometimes something palletized you can pull out with a pallet jack is hand carry, sometimes it isn't, bottom line call.

If I see the wording (or similar) not needed for ongoing operations I get more cynical with my bids. The chances are higher that the machine is "whooped". Even if they don't need a large bandsaw because they now have a CNC that does that job they probably had more than one large bandsaw and trust me they kept the best one. Liquidations are of more interest to me, these are more likely machines that were humming along until the company had to fold, usually these are the auctions where you see some really cherry and/or well maintained machines. These are just my humble opinions!

What else ya wanna know?

PS note the buyers premium, you don;t get the item for what you bid! Also note the required payment options, it will usually run you $30 at the bank for a wire transfer or about the same between the bank and PO for a check and overnight mail. Less of an issue for a $2,000 item, more of an issue for a $50 item!

[frank shic]

thank you van, i was always wondering exactly how these IRS auctions worked!

[David Kumm]

The auctions also get extended every time someone bids in the last minutes so they can go on. I don't believe they bid their own stuff back like Machinerymax but don't know for sure. Dave

[Van Huskey]

The auctions also get extended every time someone bids in the last minutes so they can go on. I don't believe they bid their own stuff back like Machinerymax but don't know for sure. Dave

Yep, if there is a bid in the last 5 minutes it gets extended by 5 more minutes. I have often wondered about shill bidding and it is certainly possible BUT I set an amount I am fully willing to pay and never bid over, period. In the end even if there is a shill if I will it for what I am willing to pay I am happy, although shilling is "wrong" for me it amounts to nothing more than a reserve, for someone that gets auction fever it can cost them a lot of unplanned money.

The one thing I really hate about the bid extensions is if there is two similar items you may only get a chance to bid on one as they may both end at the same time. Say you want a planer and they have 3 Northfield #8 planers they tend to group them in the same lot so they all end at within a few seconds of each other. If you bid on one then get outbid in the last few seconds and the other two end your only option is to bid on that one again or quit. I think they should spread the auctions out more and I think they would get more money.

I always bid right before the 5 minute mark which won't extend the auction if nobody else bids so folks watching and bidding on other items in that lot have less time to bother with MY item. Also note the bidding is different than eBay in that you can make a large jump bid if you like ie raise it more or a lot more than the minimum, so you have three ways to bid, the next minimum bid, a proxy bid (put in your max and the site bids up to your amount in minimum increments, like eBay) or make a set bid for any amount over the minimum bid.

In general the smaller and lighter duty items seem to end closer to dealer retail, ie you will tend to pay closer to dealer prices for a 14" Delta bandsaw than a 36" Tannewitz so if you have the room and are willing to deal with it you may be able to get a bigger item for a lot better deal. Not too long ago I saw some 6" PM jointers go for more than a 16" jointer in the same auction. I also have NOT been seeing the 3ph machines getting overlooked like in the past, it may be because business is picking up in light commercial OR people are learning the merits of and relatively cheap price of running 3ph machines. I staked out a machine a couple of weeks ago where they had a 1ph and 3ph version assuming the 3ph would go cheap(er), I was wrong the single phase went cheap and at least two guys fought it out for the 3ph machine which went WAY above what I would pay, but like I lamented about earlier by the time this was clear the 1ph machine had ended so I couldn't change course, I just bowed out.

There are also lots of tricks and traps to getting and item rigged/shipped which I won't go into unless someone cares, but be aware even if someone asks this isn't my forte'.

[Dave Mura]

Bought a few things on there. Transactions went smoothly.
http://chdsolutions.com/img/11d867796d85db8cad5280ac44cec7c1.jpghttp://chdsolutions.com/img/a57d48399922b03419153a9760c5ce53.jpghttp://chdsolutions.com/img/cabad3b9bc0afe08cd9ec861638ed1d9.gif

[frank shic]

van, i'm beginning to suspect that you must own a rather LARGE garage or a small warehouse to house all these orphan tools!

[Van Huskey]

van, i'm beginning to suspect that you must own a rather LARGE garage or a small warehouse to house all these orphan tools!

Not at all, I tend to pack them in... Actually, Dave (above) has a lot more room and a lot more orphans and loved machine children than I do. I have a habit of buying stuff and selling it if something else comes along, if I had more room I might keep them but it is often too hard to pass up making the quick buck and looking for something "better". It is really cool to me to start with something you pay $100 for and trade/sell up until you have something worth 20 times that, then again more than once I have sold something then later decided I wanted one again and turned around and paid more for the next one... :mad:

[Larry Edgerton]

Ditto on the rigging costs. I called on one and even though I have all of the appropriate commercial insurances they would not allow me to bring down my own forklift and load out, and the cost of the riggers was just stupid. Can you say kickback? I passed.

Each auction is different though, terms are set I am sure by the owner of the equipment, so on some it is fine. I bought a 36" Oliver and a 12" Porter through them at good prices.

Watch the location of the actual piece of equipment. Sometimes the piece in question is at a seperate location. I found a F1 listed in an auction in Grand Rapids Michigan but the jointer in question was in a facility in British Columbia when I read the fine print.

Larry

[Jim Matthews]

There's a similar outfit called Ex-Factory with a broader geographic exposure.
They're much more willing to deal in single items with inexperienced buyers (that's me) than was IRS.

I never got an answer to my noob questions at IRS, about removal and shipping of large (to me) items.

In the end, my method has evolved to let a dedicated shop do my milling.
That way, I keep my cash and a garage space.

[Jerome Stanek]

I bid on a couple of things on IRS auctions and haven't been able to get anything. You have to watch what the buyers premium also.

[Richard Wolf]

To the causal observer, IRS auctions stands for Industrial Recovery Services NOT the Internal Revenue Service. This is not a government sponsored auction, which may be a good thing, just so you know.

[Scott T Smith]

I've bought quite a few things from them; Van's advice is spot on. They attract a lot of international buyers; especially when an entire factory is being liquidated. I've loaded out at some past auctions and seen buyers from South America, Europe and Asia all crating up equipment to ship out of country.

[Troy Turner]

I never got an answer to my noob questions at IRS, about removal and shipping of large (to me) items.



Jim -

I'm in the boat with you. I saw some clamps and was going to bid on them. Simply asked if the sellers would be willing to stick in a box and slap a pre-paid lable on it. Yeah, still no response.

[Keith Hankins]

I've been a regiestered user for a while with IRS but not won due to me being cheap I guess. On the other hand some things have gone cheap but half the country away. I think it's costs a buck for them to register you just to have something on file I guess and its good for a year. I've bid on lumber and would love some of the stuff but alas, none close. I'm in PA and they do centralized auctions in York, with a 100 crating fee. Still seen some nice pieces go for a song. Of course you never know but generally mfg's do a good maint job. Big hiccup use to be for me the 3 phase power that is almost always the case, I finally broke down and bought a 10hp RPC so 3 phase is no longer an issue for me. The old big stuff is much better than today's stuff.

[Damon Stathatos]

I just about outfitted my complete shop buying machinery through IRS. The trick is to know what you're bidding on and how much it's going to cost you to get it to your shop before you bid. Van's correct in that the best opportunities are from shops that are complete dispersals, but that's the majority of them anyway. Keith's correct in that they are usually well maintained, have to be if they're counting on them for production, but most factories also have their 'graveyard' machines as well. You can usually tell those by the pictures alone, if they look as if they're not hooked up or maybe not in a production setting.

Condition Information:
You need to talk to someone familiar with the machinery before the auction. If you call the auction agent listed for that auction, they will give you a good contact person at the company location. Foremen are the best, they usually have no 'dog in the hunt' and are pretty forthright with the condition information. Owners can be a bit trickier and sometimes you need to 'interpret' the information they're giving you. For the most part though, I experienced very few surprises after the fact.

Rigging:
If you're successful, IRS will list one or more 'pre-approved' or 'suggested' riggers that you can call for a quote. The worst situation can be when there's only one rigger, they know that they may have you at their mercy, so to speak. It also may be a bad situation when the company itself wants to do the rigging. I've had it go both ways with that, either exorbitant or not, most of the time not. In fact, I've had some guys rigging themselves that didn't even charge me or charge very little. You are not tied into their riggers and are allowed to employ others if you wish, but they must provide insurance information to IRS prior to rigging. Also, the riggers there should be able to quote lower than some guy going just to rig your machine or machines.

Knowing your total costs:
Your bid price + buyer's premium + wire transfer fee + rigging + shipping + possibly sales tax + possibly rigging again at your shop. Determine how many of the above are going to apply to the specific auction or machine(s) you're looking at. Call a freight broker beforehand to find out how much 10' or 20' of a truck (or a whole truckload, depending) and they should be able to give you a pretty good approximation. When I was doing it a lot, it was mid 2009 to mid 2010 and stuff was going for practically nothing. There were so many HUGE furniture factories in the midwest and east coast (sadly) 'dropping like flies,' and with the economy 'in the tank' not enough interest given the glut of machines that were hitting the market. At that time, I used to double my bid price (in my own mind) and usually be fairly close to approximating my final cost, assuming full truckloads as opposed to just a portion of a truckload. But that was then and this is now and prices have crept back up, so doubling the final bid price may be too cautious. You'll be able to determine better after you get a freight estimate prior to the auction itself.

As I said, I was able to outfit almost my complete shop through IRS. They provide an unbelievable opportunity to purchase great machines at a fraction of the cost elsewhere. This is not to say that you do not need to sit back and 'bide your time.' I was a 'bottom feeder' only staying in on stuff that was 'falling through the cracks,' and I'm not sure what level prices are at now. Some of my notable buys (ones that I can remember off the top of my head): Northfield #4 table saw with a 4 roll power feeder ($400 hammer price), SCMI Track Fed Pin Router ($200), Diehl Straight Line Rip Saw ($800), Sandingmaster 36" 3 head Wide Belt Sander which included approximately 80-100 new, unused belts ($1500), Newman Whitney 26" Planer with their Whitney 'Quiet' Head ($1100), Tannewitz 36" bandsaw ($700), and a Northfield 28" bandsaw ($800). Those are the ones that I can remember, the others I can't but they were all really, really good deals.

One machine that I was the underbidder on, that I kick myself, to this day over, was a 56" 3 head Italian Wide Belt Sander. It was less than 4 years old, cost $275k new, and went for $9200. Coincidentally, I ended up talking to the 'winning bidder' after the auction on another matter, he didn't know that I was the underbidder, and he told me that the $9200 was their absolute final bid. Broke my heart. To this day. Kick self, kick self, kick self.

If you decide to do it, remember to bide your time (there's ALWAYS going to be another machine down the road), be prepared by informing yourself beforehand as to conditions and costs, set your absolute limit and then stick by it (unless it's a 56" Italian Wide Belt Sander, then go above your limit, you stupid jackass), and then, have some fun.

[David Warkentin]

I have bought tools from IRS and my FIL has bought a bunch of tools from them. AFAIK we haven't had any problems...

[Paul Steiner]

I bought a load of oak through IRS and it went smoothly. It is just as Damon said you need to do some research and factor in all costs . When I purchased my oak it was loaded by the company for free. Last summer I was about to pull the trigger on a 20" bandsaw. I called and talked to someone who said the machine looked good and let me hear it run over the phone. Then I called the rigger, minimum rigging fee was $200. If I brought several friends put it on my own pallet and loaded it on to my trailer with my own pallet jack $200. I passed.

I will use IRS auctions again but I will always research things before buying.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Yes. They conducted an auction about 45 miles from me last year (this is not the fed. gov't. IRS in case anyone is wondering). It was live bidding via the web and not in person (I bid because I figured I would avoid high shipping costs). Anyhow I won several lots, picked up the items I could haul and had to make arrangements for their riggers to load the items I couldn't load. The auction was conducted professionally and I was generally pleased, except for having to pay a rigger $150.00 for 5 minutes of work to load a machine I bought (overarm pin router, that I have "traded up" to a Delta shaper and feeder). All in all, with all costs, I did well, not really great, but well.

I would not hesitate to bid on their auctions again, but keep in mind your shipping and rigging costs, as the items they generally dispose of, are industrial machines and not your typical home workshop stuff. Also, watch for electrical requirements (not just your typical single or three phase questions).

[Matt McColley]

I have no experience with IRS, but I watched eXfactory listings dilligently for a new CNC table router last year and found the prices way to high.

The company I work for is equiped ~90% with auction sourced machinery... but the owners go to bankruptcy auctions (with a box truck) and always have several items on their shopping list.

Here's one trick... We always go to these auctions with one of our own trucks and after loading up our purchased items at the end of the auction, several times the auction company rep. has said.... "if you can haul this away, it's yours for free".... as these actions often happen just days b4 the building lease "out by" date and they need to clear the building....

[Pat Turner]

I've bought twice from their sales for Wm Redmond and sons in Atlanta, GA, I don't like the overnight payment requirement- I travel too much and it sucks. I've gotten away with sending the payment late and givinging them the tracking number. I would caller the seller about loading. My purchases were loaded by the seller, and when it was raining, they used a huge ammount of shrink wrap to protect it, and offered to strap it down.

[Van Huskey]

I have no experience with IRS, but I watched eXfactory listings dilligently for a new CNC table router last year and found the prices way to high.

The company I work for is equiped ~90% with auction sourced machinery... but the owners go to bankruptcy auctions (with a box truck) and always have several items on their shopping list.

Here's one trick... We always go to these auctions with one of our own trucks and after loading up our purchased items at the end of the auction, several times the auction company rep. has said.... "if you can haul this away, it's yours for free".... as these actions often happen just days b4 the building lease "out by" date and they need to clear the building....

Exfactory is one of many that "relist" machines from all over the country they are just a broker and you will find the same machines on multiple websites, part of the reason prices are so high is they aren't auctions and being just a broker they are taking a cut off the top and who knows how many layers of brokers are between you and the actual purchase price.

Pat mentioned the Redmond auctions, they tend to do them about once a year, it seems to get rid of extra inventory. The only negative is they seem to attract a lot of bidders and the prices for many of the machines get high (for auction) but still less than Redmonds normal price. The positives (I assume why they attract so many bidders) is they are set up to crate and ship if you don't want to pick it up and will load it for free if you want to pick it up. It is just easier to deal with them from afar compared to most of the liquidations etc. You can call Scotty Redmond about auction listings and though a salesman he is usually accurate and he does know machines, particularly Powermatic.

[J.R. Rutter]

If you can't preview the item in person bid like you would on a used car that you couldn't drive first.

This is very good advice.