Powermatic new machine coming?

[Van Huskey]

There is a countdown timer for something big coming on the PM website http://www.powermatic.com/

About 3 weeks left, now it may just be another one of their sales but if you remember news from AWFS last year was they would bring out 3 marquee tools this year on the order of the PM1800 BS in their quest to distinguish themselves from "the me to" importers. Outside of Oliver they probably have the least "recognizable" catalog. It will be interesting to see if it is a tool announcement it would seem their biggest holes in their catalog would be a cyclone or a combo machine, maybe even retooling their "hobby" (non-industrial) planers or jointers.


We shall see in 22 days 13 hours and change.

[Matt Meiser]

Maybe they are going to fix the drill press? :rolleyes:

[Van Huskey]

Maybe they are going to fix the drill press? :rolleyes:

:D In my view the only issue with the PM2800 is QC some are purrrfect and others are runout/vibration dogs. If would pick a perfect one over the Delta but admittedly I have always had a softspot for PM and little for Delta. That all said if I was ordering one today I would pick the Delta since it has better QC but alas I have concerns about Delta on the post sale side these days...

[Sid Matheny]

Maybe they are going to start making all their products here in the USA again. Yeah wishful thinking!!! I worked for them for 15 years here in McMinnville, TN.


Sid

[Van Huskey]

Maybe they are going to start making all their products here in the USA again. Yeah wishful thinking!!! I worked for them for 15 years here in McMinnville, TN.


Sid

Probably the only thing they could be even close to cost effective on would be a PM66 TS copy, just look at the General machines. The PM141 (14" bandsaw) was over 2,000 in 1989 and the PM90 (12" swing spindle lathe) was near 3,500 at the end of its run. Even if they could build 'em here and get the volume to suceed it wouldn't be from selling stuff to Creekers and even then would probably have to be clones of old machines, as cool as the PM1800 bandsaw is they can't even match the European prices producing them in Asia. Sad as it is.

[Chris Hedges]

New 14" bandsaw from what I understand. Though I thought they were a bit further out.

Chris

[Van Huskey]

Chris, that is interesting. The 14" saw is a place where they are using a generic form factor, a steel framed saw would be interesting.

[Dave Lehnert]

"Something big is coming" A big price increase? :rolleyes:

Be interesting to see what they have in the works.

With some woodworkers not shy dropping some serious $$$ on Italian bandsaws, Is there a reason the Powermatic PM1800 bandsaw does not get more press. Never used one but looks impressive.

[Dick Strauss]

They are making an announcement at the AAW symposium in San Jose so I expect a new/significantly reworked lathe to be in the works.

[Van Huskey]

They are making an announcement at the AAW symposium in San Jose so I expect a new/significantly reworked lathe to be in the works.

Certainly makes sense timing wise. I must admit I al a little surprised since they seem to be the highest ragraded of the Asian machines already, not knowing a lot about the market I would guess it is the 4224 they are redoing, it is BIG.

[Sid Matheny]

Well I know several folks that are still connected with Powermatic and their lips are sealed! Not even a good hint.

Sid

[Douglas Clark]

Maybe this is wishful thinking on my part, but... Maybe a saw with their own proprietary braking system. That would be cool and I'd probably buy one.

[Rob Damon]

Maybe symantics but it says " Something" and not "Somethings" to imply just one new thing. Looks like the bed of a lathe. So if they follow suite with what they did with the PM1800 bandsaw and super sizes it, it may be something to compete with a oneway/robust. Just my 2 pince.

[Chris Tsutsui]

1. Sliding Table Saw
2. Combination jointer / planer
3. A very big lathe

[Joe Angrisani]

There is a countdown timer for something big coming on the PM website....

Oooh-ooh. Perhaps an exciting third color option?

I've got a dollar says the "big" announcement is a big nothing. Something someone else is already doing as well for less.

[Douglas Clark]

That was a real downer. I dub thee Killjoē. I mean you're probably right, but still...

[Joe Angrisani]

Sorry. I just laughed every time I saw one of those "Special Black Paint" ads a few months back.

[joe milana]

I'm with you Joe, and will hardly take a look. Another boring marketing ploy from the mediocre mustard...

[Van Huskey]

@ Douglas I don't think given the current situation any member of the WMIA would introduce a flesh sensing brake even if they have one ready for production. However, it would be interesting to say the least!

@ Joe From the outside it looked like the 90th anniversary paint worked well for them. I for one thought it was gorgeous in person and the "freebies" with some of the machines were actually useful and 30 extra months of warranty is kinda nice. PM's "value" is concentrated in the industrial line (which few of us here buy or even look at) and the hobby line stuff that is designed from the ground up to be PM. Lathes are probably the area where they have the strongest lead in their demographic (high end Asian wood lathes). Their cloned stuff makes it hard for many to justify the price difference but their proprietary designs on the whole seem to do pretty well.

[Paul McGaha]

Just a feeling but I think it's more than a color change. Besides, at least as far as what I've read, that black paint job seemed to go over pretty well, especially the lathe.

I really like my Powermatic tools. Half of my shop is Powermatic (other half is Delta).

Not as bullet proof as they used to be but they're still making pretty good tools. The PJ-882 Jointer, PM-2700 Shaper, or the PM-719 mortiser to offer a few examples. I seriously doubt anyone that ever used one of those tools would call them mediocre.

Same for the band saws and tablesaws really.

Over on the turning forum those guys seem to love the 3520 lathe.

PHM

[Dennis Stewart]

I'd also like to see brake technolgy from Powermatic. I'm slose to buying Sawstop but if Poermatic came out with one, it would be my preference.

[Brian Krause]

Despite owning a PM1800, I wonderd the same thing. That was until I saw the new prices!! Even though I feel the PM is superior to the euro 18" saws in almost every way, the current price is not even reasonable. I count myself fortunate to have gotten it at the old price with 15% off.

[Mike Heidrick]

1. Sliding Table Saw
3. A very big lathe

They have these already

[Mike Heidrick]

I'd also like to see brake technolgy from Powermatic. I'm slose to buying Sawstop but if Poermatic came out with one, it would be my preference.

Might as well jump - Betting Steve Gass is not selling his technology to anyone anymore. He makes too much money when the do NOT have it.

[Van Huskey]

They have these already

They do have a good slider (Industrial line) but their 24" swing lathe could use an update to compete with the "big boys". They do have to be careful not to end up with another PM2800. It is an excellent saw but overpriced and even at the lowest price I ever saw it advertised for one could still buy a 24" Agazzani for less money. IMHO unless you are trying to get away with one (compromised despite what PM says) saw to run everything from 1/8" to wide resaw blades the simialrly priced Italian saws are just better in pretty much every way except cosmetic and bling factor.

Will be curious if it is a new 24" (or bigger) lathe with a sliding headstock and maybe stainless ways. If so even the love of Mustard Monsters probably won't help it if it doesn't look like a good value against the Oneway and Robust et al crowd.

[John Coloccia]

Maybe they are going to fix the drill press? :rolleyes:

When I saw the title of the thread my first thought was, "Maybe someone's finally going to make a good woodworking drill press".

[Van Huskey]

When I saw the title of the thread my first thought was, "Maybe someone's finally going to make a good woodworking drill press".

IMHO if one were to put the PM2800 and the Delta 18-900L in a room with some Barry White music playing and have a couple of Lexus engineers do the post gestation quality control we would be close to having a "perfect" WWing DP. To get true perfect you would need to sprinkle in some PM 1200HD or Clausing DNA but the effect of that DNA on the final price might be a little much for even the well heeled WWing hobbyist.

BTW John there was a nice PM 1200HD (with apparently only an inoperable speed control, which is just a VFD) sold for the BARGAIN price of $405 this morning just up the road from you in Somerville MA. With a new VFD a nice wood working table and less than an hour of sprucing up and someone will have a KILLER DP. Compare that near 700 monster to todays machines.

[Kevin W Johnson]

Sorry. I just laughed every time I saw one of those "Special Black Paint" ads a few months back.

Um, yeah.. It was more than just a black paint job you know.

[Kevin W Johnson]

I'd also like to see brake technolgy from Powermatic. I'm slose to buying Sawstop but if Poermatic came out with one, it would be my preference.

I have been told on a couple of occasions that it's very close.....

[Van Huskey]

I have been told on a couple of occasions that it's very close.....

I am sure every member of the WMIA is hard at work on a flesh sensing brake for their table saws, probably one or more are just short of production ready BUT I doubt any of them will introduce it until the current legal/regulation/legislation sorts itself out. I wouldn't be surprised if PM wasn't the first to market though, they were a on top of the riving knife situation before all (?) the others. I am not counting the rare old iron with true riving knives.

[Barry Richardson]

In my view the only issue with the PM2800 is QC some are purrrfect and others are runout/vibration dogs. It is morethat just runout. It's just overall a poorly made drill press. We bought one at work and it has been a huge dissapointment. let me count the ways: cheap chuck- freezes up on larger forstner or holesaw bits, have to break loose with pipe wrences. The little built in light ( a nice idea) burned out after less that six months. The set screw in the crank to raise/lower comes loose and the handel comes off frequently. The geared strip that the rack and pinion rides on is light weight; first one broke, the second is bowed out. The block that the contains the dept stop rod kept working loose, finally striped the threads and had to retap. Next to the old Delta and Rockwell DPs we have had for years with no problems, it's pretty pathetic. I'm not a PM hater, have a PM2000 Im very happy with. But for my money I would take a Grizzly Drill press any day over the PM2800. It's OK I guess for the light duty hobbyist...

[Kevin W Johnson]

The retailer I spoke with talked like they were soon to bring it to market, it didn't sound as though they were gonna wait. IIRC, he talked about a system that would clamp the blade to stop it without damaging the blade.

[Van Huskey]

The retailer I spoke with talked like they were soon to bring it to market, it didn't sound as though they were gonna wait. IIRC, he talked about a system that would clamp the blade to stop it without damaging the blade.

I certainly wouldn't bet the farm against it but I would bet a dollar it wouldn't happen before the issues get resolved. My guess if it is going to happen in the next year we will hear about it in the early morning of August 22nd.

[Kevin W Johnson]

Ok, it escapes me, what's the significance of Aug 22nd?

[Van Huskey]

Ok, it escapes me, what's the significance of Aug 22nd?

First day of the 2012 IWF (International Woodworking Fair) in Atlanta probably the biggest in the world and THE place to make such an announcement since it will get immediate coverage from every woodworking media outlet in the US.

[Peter Hawser]

I was reading that "flesh sensing" tables, meaning SawStop, are outselling the higher quality cabinet saws (Powermatic and Unisaw...) by 3 - 1. If so, it seems a safe bet they will offer a similar flesh sensing saw to be competitive - while the courts have yet to speak and plenty online posters squeak, the real message has been delivered by the only place that counts - the market and the wallets of table saw shoppers.

[Kevin W Johnson]

I was reading that "flesh sensing" tables, meaning SawStop, are outselling the higher quality cabinet saws (Powermatic and Unisaw...) by 3 - 1. If so, it seems a safe bet they will offer a similar flesh sensing saw to be competitive - while the courts have yet to speak and plenty online posters squeak, the real message has been delivered by the only place that counts - the market and the wallets of table saw shoppers.

I'm curious who determined the 3 to 1 ratio.........

[John Shuk]

I remember when Delta had a similar countdown clock a few years back. Since that time they have not kept up with innovation very well in my opinion. I hope PM isn't about to jump a shark.

[Dave Lehnert]

Only two more days.

[Rick Fisher]

Maybe they are announcing they have been bought by Black and Decker ..

We could have Powermatic Toasters and Weed Whackers by Xmas ..

Okay.. not funny.. :p

[Tom Hintz]

Not a flesh-sensing table saw but the speculation should be over by the end of this coming weekend.

[Chris Hedges]

Pm4224b - sliding headstock, 40-3500 rpmNovember 15" steel frame bandsawJanuary is a new drill pressWill try and post a pic of lathe in a bit..Chris.

[Dave Lehnert]

Pm4224b - sliding headstock, 40-3500 rpmNovember 15" steel frame bandsawJanuary is a new drill pressWill try and post a pic of lathe in a bit..Chris.
Interested in seeing what the 15" bandsaw will be like.

[Paul McGaha]

Pm4224b - sliding headstock, 40-3500 rpmNovember 15" steel frame bandsawJanuary is a new drill pressWill try and post a pic of lathe in a bit..Chris.

Hope this is true, possibly a few new things from Powermatic. I kind of had a feeling it might have be more than 1 tool. A lot of hype for just 1 tool.

PHM

[eugene thomas]

well d day is here......

[Mike Delyster]

Looks like nice lathe, but overpriced in my opinion.

[Dave Lehnert]

Yep, new lathe. $7,500

[mreza Salav]

And how is that (at that price range) better than a Oneway, Vicmarc, or other top brand lathes?

[Van Huskey]

And how is that (at that price range) better than a Oneway, Vicmarc, or other top brand lathes?

That is what I was worried about, the pirce makes a Robust, Oneway ans Stubby look resonable considering where they are built.

[Rick Fisher]

Sure.. but does Oneway give you a free smock with each new lathe purchase ?

http://content.powermatic.com/content/Powermatic-4224B-Smock-Offer.pdf

Seems like a bunch of money for an Asian Import..

[Kevin W Johnson]

Sure.. but does Oneway give you a free smock with each new lathe purchase ?

http://content.powermatic.com/content/Powermatic-4224B-Smock-Offer.pdf

Seems like a bunch of money for an Asian Import..

No kidding.... I'm sure some will disagree, but I personally feel that the "value" of an item is directly influenced by it's cost of manufacture. Things that are made using cents an hour labor just aren't worth as much to me.

[Robert Boyd]

Looks like a step back, way back to me.

[Brian Effinger]

That is what I was worried about, the pirce makes a Robust, Oneway ans Stubby look resonable considering where they are built.
For a couple hundred more, I can get a Robust of the same size with the same features. I did notice that the powermatic is about 300 pounds more though.

[Van Huskey]

Looks like a step back, way back to me.

Explain...

[Van Huskey]

For a couple hundred more, I can get a Robust of the same size with the same features. I did notice that the powermatic is about 300 pounds more though.

They filled the PM with lots of what they consider value added features, not available on most lathes, the question is what are they worth. Most woodworkers I know, myself included like to pay for better "bones" upfront and deal with add ons as time/money permit and just the ones they actually want or need. I like many of the PM products and a lot of their features but sometimes they go a step too far which takes the price a step too far. This new lathe is up there with the big boys and so is the PM1800 bandsaw... The latter doesn't get a lot of love here since it looks like a poor value, though it is a great machine.

[Robert Boyd]

Explain...

I would have to think the break even point is pretty high for that price and they may never recoup the investment. I think they priced themselves out of the market. The only features that may set itself apart say from the Oneway 2436 is a longer bed and the vacuum system on the chuck. I don't see the purpose of moving the headstock around so you can turn on the outboard. Plenty of other lathes that will allow you to turn on the outboard without any effort. Example would be the Grizzly G0694 (slight short on the the swing bed)

Powermatic 7500, Grizzly 3000. I think we know which one most people will buy.

Doesn't look like they invented anything just took the Australian Stubby and put it on a longer bed. Painted it gold and and added a vacuum chuck.

Just my thoughts

[Van Huskey]

I would have to think the break even point is pretty high for that price and they may never recoup the investment. I think they priced themselves out of the market. The only features that may set itself apart say from the Oneway 2436 is a longer bed and the vacuum system on the chuck. I don't see the purpose of moving the headstock around so you can turn on the outboard. Plenty of other lathes that will allow you to turn on the outboard without any effort. Example would be the Grizzly G0694 (slight short on the the swing bed)

Powermatic 7500, Grizzly 3000. I think we know which one most people will buy.

Doesn't look like they invented anything just took the Australian Stubby and put it on a longer bed. Painted it gold and and added a vacuum chuck.

Just my thoughts

OK. I thought you were saying the design was going backwards...

In the end this one has me a little bemused, I never thought the 3520b would gain the popularity it has now at the price BUT it didn't infringe on the big boys. I think it will be up to the 3520b guys, do they love their lathe enough to move up in the PM family OR do they really lust after Oneway/Robust/Stubby et al?

[Van Huskey]

BTW if my numbers are right the b version of the 4224 is $2100 more than the "a" version.

[Brodie Brickey]

OK. I thought you were saying the design was going backwards...

In the end this one has me a little bemused, I never thought the 3520b would gain the popularity it has now at the price BUT it didn't infringe on the big boys. I think it will be up to the 3520b guys, do they love their lathe enough to move up in the PM family OR do they really lust after Oneway/Robust/Stubby et al?

As a 3520A owner, I can safely say, I'd move up to a Robust but not any of the others. I saw the 4224 at the Symposium this weekend, aside from the really nice large handwheel on the tail stock (~twice the size of my 'A' and more comfortable), the rest was just nice to have. I didn't even realize I was looking at the new 'big' model, I originally thought it was the 3520B. 4" of swing in difference from my old lathe didn't even register. The indexer looked nice, but I bought a plastic indexer for $20 at the show so I'm all set.

Most turners who have a 3520 got it because the price point made sense in comparison to the other lathes in the same size. I rarely come across a 20" block of wood, so the need for this much size is rarely called for and I can turn off the end when I need more clearance.

[Gary Herrmann]

When I got my 3520b, it was less than half the price of the large Robust. Given the price of the 4224b, I'd go with the Robust now. 2nd choice would be the big Oneway.

That said, I do really like using my 3520b.

[Van Huskey]

Based on the turner post here and the couple of turner friends I have pulled out of the vortex long enough to comment seem to be in agreement, the 3520 sorta stands alone atop the Asian built large lathes, not a whole lot of argument it isn't the best but and the price (especially before the last round of increases) placed it far enough below the non-Asian versions to provide good value. The 4224b will have to compete with the non-Asian brands (price point wise) and although feature rich (in some cases answering questions at least my friends didn't ask) becomes a much harder sell.

[Keith Outten]

I just received a CD with some videos, pictures and the data on the new lathe.
I think the price is $7,999.99

Lots of nice features :)
.

[Keith Hankins]

"...PM1800 bandsaw... The latter doesn't get a lot of love here since it looks like a poor value, though it is a great machine"

I've had the opportunity to get a good look up close at this beast at my woodcraft store, and it is impressive. At the price point thought the Laguna 18" with it's features is a tough competitor.

[Van Huskey]

"...PM1800 bandsaw... The latter doesn't get a lot of love here since it looks like a poor value, though it is a great machine"

I've had the opportunity to get a good look up close at this beast at my woodcraft store, and it is impressive. At the price point thought the Laguna 18" with it's features is a tough competitor.

Depending on whether or not the PM1800 is on sale you can get a Minimax MM20 and Agazzani B-20/20 or B-24 for less. The Laguna LT18 is a good bit less expensive. The PM1800 is in general a well thought out and built saw with some unique features but to sell well you must be better than the best or cheaper.

[John Coloccia]

Wow...seems like a monster machine. Pricing does seem a bit steep, but everything else in that class is pretty steep too. I've always wanted a Vicmarc, though I'm selling off all my turning stuff as we speak. But I still want the Vicmarc. LOL. I look forward to seeing this beast in action. Honestly, I don't really like a lot of what PM makes, but their big lathes are NICE.

[Keith Hankins]

Depending on whether or not the PM1800 is on sale you can get a Minimax MM20 and Agazzani B-20/20 or B-24 for less. The Laguna LT18 is a good bit less expensive. The PM1800 is in general a well thought out and built saw with some unique features but to sell well you must be better than the best or cheaper.

I'm holding out for an old Tanowitz 30" Now were talking iron!

[Van Huskey]

I'm holding out for an old Tanowitz 30" Now were talking iron!

I certainly wasn't including the old iron and you can have your choice of Tannawitz, Northfield, Oliver etc for the price of a new PM1800. I must admit I prefer the European steel spined saws to the old iron for two reasons, I prefer the flat wheel/tire and the resaw height to wheel size ratio. There is no question the old iron saws make incredible saws if you have the room for the larger ones.