Curious - Cell Phone Jammers

[Belinda Barfield]

If you are an employer, do you have a cell phone jammer at your place of business? If so, is there one you would recommend. Shop is 14,000 square feet.

If you are an employee, does your employer utilize a cell phone jammer? Just curious on this one.

Thanks for your input?

[Dan Friedrichs]

I may be wrong, but despite the ease of buying a cell phone jammer, I think they're outright illegal in the US.

[Belinda Barfield]

Well, that answered that question. Hadn't looked into that aspect of things yet. Thanks Dan.

[Matt Meiser]

Put on a metal siding and a metal roof. That's usually pretty effective in most plants I go to. The one I was in last week actually had to install a repeater in the engineering office so phones would work there. And the repeater was still only repeating Verizon, not ATT so some of the guys had to get new corporate phones.

Out on the plant floor I'd get 1, maybe 2 bars. Everyone on our project team was mooching (in a respectful manner) data from me.

Seems like reasonable policy would be a better way to go--i.e. a policy that lets them occasionally, safely use them on breaks or emergencies. Or just ban them from bringing them out on the floor--tell them to keep them in their lockers or cars.

[Belinda Barfield]

Metal siding and metal roof already in place. I guess the next step is to ban cell phones in the shop.

[Matt Meiser]

Had the same thought and edited my thread to add that. I've been in a few places where texting is banned for the same reason texting bans while driving are happening. To easy to be distracted from safety. But having the phones there can save critical time in an emergency. One place I go banned all cell phones for a long time, then recently switched to actually keeping track of visitors' numbers for emergency. That's on a little different scale than your location though.

[Tom Winship]

.......Seems like reasonable policy would be a better way to go--i.e. a policy that lets them occasionally, safely use them on breaks or emergencies. .

Matt I agree with this since I am "old school"; i.e., be reasonable in everything. However, this won't work because when you tell John he has used up his "reasonable" limit, then he tells you that Jim uses his more. Downhill from there.

[David G Baker]

Aren't jammers used in theaters to block cell phone use? They may not be available to the public but it may be worth doing the research.

[Belinda Barfield]

David, you can order them and have them delivered, but apparently you can't actually use them. :rolleyes:

New policy effective Monday is no cell phone use during work hours other than breaks and lunch. We've asked nicely, we've stated it verbally, it is in the employee handbook. It goes out in writing with paychecks on Thursday. I'm getting tired of paying $20 an hour for texting.

[Belinda Barfield]

P.S. it annoys me when the powers that be tell me what I can and can't do in my business on private property.

[Mike Cutler]

You could always look up a "Faraday Cage", and turn your shop into one. You may also find that the internet access in your building is open to WIFI, and needs to be closed.
As an employer though, it is not unreasonable to ask that the phones be turned off by employees during work hours when you are paying them.
I'm certain that state law requires that you give them periodic breaks during the course of the work day based on amount of hours worked per day. I'm also fairly certain that state laws govern approximate windows of time when these breaks have to be given. That's more than ample opportunity to stay connected.

I don't buy the "I need it on at all times in case of an emergency" answer.

[Belinda Barfield]

You could always look up a "Faraday Cage", and turn your shop into one. You may also find that the internet access in your building is open to WIFI, and needs to be closed.
As an employer though, it is not unreasonable to ask that the phones be turned off by employees during work hours when you are paying them.
I'm certain that state law requires that you give them periodic breaks during the course of the work day based on amount of hours worked per day. I'm also fairly certain that state laws govern approximate windows of time when these breaks have to be given. That's more than ample opportunity to stay connected.

I don't buy the "I need it on at all times in case of an emergency" answer.

We're good on the WIFI. I am a really reasonable person, and I can live with the occasional phone call. It's the texting that is totally out of control. Our CNC operator texts while running the CNC when I would prefer that she be paying attention to the machine and the material. One thing I've noticed is that our "old school" guys aren't a problem. They work when they are here and leave their phone in the car. If they need to make a phone call they come in and ask if they can clock out for a few minutes to handle personal business. Interestingly, they have all at one time or another owned their own business.

[John C Lawson]

...I don't buy the "I need it on at all times in case of an emergency" answer.

You would if you had a school-aged child with a chronic medical condition like diabetes.

[Mike Henderson]

You would if you had a school-aged child with a chronic medical condition like diabetes.
And, of course, that's why cell phone jammers are illegal. My wife was on an organ transplant list and we had to have the phone on whenever we were out of the house. We attended some presentation where the guy stood up in front and as a wise comment to tell people to turn off their cell phones he asked, "How many people here are on a transplant list?" He expected that no one would raise their hand and then he would say, "Then turn your cell phone off!"

However, this time my wife and I raised our hands.

Jammers are particularly a problem because notice would likely not be given that they were in operation. You simply would not receive the phone call. And it would be cold comfort to the person who was supposed to receive the call that the people just "forgot" to put notices up about the jammer.

So let's say that I was visiting your facility, Belinda. You probably would have told all your employees about the jammer but you didn't post any signs warning others, or they weren't obvious enough that I noticed them. So my phone quits working while I'm visiting you and my wife gets the call. I need to drive her to the hospital but no one can reach me. To prevent such situations, the FCC just outlawed jammers.

Mike

[And for anyone wondering about "the rest of the story", my wife did get the call and had a lung transplant. She survived six years with the transplanted lung but passed away in 2010.]

[Matt Meiser]

That and there's no way to prevent the signal from reaching outside your facility. And the whole issue about transmitting on licensed radio frequencies. Imagine the chaos if that wasn't regulated!

[Myk Rian]

You would if you had a school-aged child with a chronic medical condition like diabetes.
The school ought to have the workplace phone number anyway.

[Larry Browning]

How did we ever survive as a society before cell phones? People had emergency situations back then as well, and they managed to deal with them without cell phones. It was not unusual to not be able to contact folks for days at a time. Why is it now mandatory that we be available 24/7 or we think our rights have been violated? I guess I just don't get it.

[Ron Jones near Indy]

The school ought to have the workplace phone number anyway.

School age children are not always in school; nor are they always at home.

[Mike Henderson]

How did we ever survive as a society before cell phones? People had emergency situations back then as well, and they managed to deal with them without cell phones. It was not unusual to not be able to contact folks for days at a time. Why is it now mandatory that we be available 24/7 or we think our rights have been violated? I guess I just don't get it.
Because we didn't have the kind of things we have today, such as organ transplants. Also, there was no alternative. Women had babies and the husband didn't know she had gone into labor. A child was seriously injured and the parents didn't know until the child had passed away.

Modern technology, such as cell phones, allows us to overcome those limitations. Why shouldn't we use the technology, and demand that it be available? I, for one, do not wish to go back to 1800's.

Mike

[And, I might add, if you had any of those situations, you'd demand access, also. It's easy to take that attitude until your ox is gored.]

[Bruce Page]

People can adapt. Before retiring, I worked in a secure government R&D facility. We were not allowed to bring in personal phones, cameras, laptops, memory sticks, etc, even MP3 players. Failing to comply would result in a security infraction and multiple infractions could result in getting yourself canned. Phones were by far the biggest problem because people would forget them in their purse or briefcase.
Several years ago they installed little Plexiglas cubbies, each with lock & key at each entrance gate. The cubbies served as a reminder to people that phones were not allowed and were also a convenient way for people to safely store their phones if they road the bus or forgot to leave the phone in their car. The number of infractions fell dramatically after the cubbies were installed.

I don’t know how they handled it if you were on a transplant list. We all had DOE/DOD security clearances so perhaps they would make a special exception or issue a secure government phone.

[Belinda Barfield]

So let's say that I was visiting your facility, Belinda. You probably would have told all your employees about the jammer but you didn't post any signs warning others, or they weren't obvious enough that I noticed them. So my phone quits working while I'm visiting you and my wife gets the call. I need to drive her to the hospital but no one can reach me. To prevent such situations, the FCC just outlawed jammers.

Mike

[And for anyone wondering about "the rest of the story", my wife did get the call and had a lung transplant. She survived six years with the transplanted lung but passed away in 2010.]

Actually, Mike, you would have been informed in the office that visitors aren't allowed on the shop floor due to policies regarding proprietary information and some of the products that we fabricate. If you were allowed on the shop floor, as in the case of an audit, I would have asked that you leave your phone in your vehicle if you have the ability to take photos with your phone. In that situation you or your wife would have had to stay with the phone.

[Mike Henderson]

Actually, Mike, you would have been informed in the office that visitors aren't allowed on the shop floor due to policies regarding proprietary information and some of the products that we fabricate. If you were allowed on the shop floor, as in the case of an audit, I would have asked that you leave your phone in your vehicle if you have the ability to take photos with your phone. In that situation you or your wife would have had to stay with the phone.
My example was generic, Belinda. While you might take extraordinary measures to let people know that the jammer is in operation or that cell phones were not allowed, others will likely not do the same.

And I was working during the time my wife was on the transplant list. She would not have been with me during my visits to customers. (I had to continue to work to maintain health insurance coverage)

Mike

[Moses Yoder]

I used to run a CNC router as a small portion of my job. Our company is very large, parts are retail stores, and we made our own slatwall on the CNC. A 4x8 sheet of MDF took about 15 minutes to run, and is very dusty so I was bored to death plus dirty while doing it. Management actually installed a web browser on the computer so I would have something to do while the router ran. I could hear right away if something was awry. A 5 minute program I wouldn't mind, but 15 minutes?

I still do not have texting available on my cell phone and would think it kind of disrespectful to do on company time.

You will want to write up people before dismissing them probably, but after 2 or 3 write ups you have good grounds for dismissal. You will probably have to fire one person before the others get it.

[Steve Meliza]

No need for a jammer, make a policy that is reasonable and fair and then enforce it in a reasonable and fair manner. Don't like the rules? Don't work here!

If I was working for you I'd want to have my phone on me so that I would know if my wife had tried to call, then just like when I'm driving I handle the missed call when I'm able to. My wife knows to not leave a voice mail if the call is not important and to leave a message if she needs me to get back to her right away. If the call isn't from my wife it can wait till after work. I'd hate to work for a place that would boot me out for taking 2 seconds to see who the missed call was from so I know if I need to clock out or not.

[Lee Schierer]

I've been to several companies where cell phones are not permitted on the shop floor. You must either turn them off or leave them in your locker. If you are expecting an emergency call then you could leave your phone with the receptionist and she would take a message and get it to you immediately.

Since you currently allow phones, you need to announce a new policy and start it say July 1 so that people have some notice. However, once you set the policy everyone including managers must follow the policy.

[Brian Elfert]

This problem isn't necessarily new. There were office workers spending too much time on personal calls before cell phones became available. Cell phones just mean the problem has spread to areas where employees didn't previously have access to a phone during the work day.

I worked at a job cutting grass 8 hours a day in the late 80s/early 90s. Really nobody had cell phones yet and we got along fine without access to a phone during the work day. I think there was a phone we could use at the lunch hour if necessary. The security guard did get a car phone in his security vehicle towards the end of my time there.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

And, of course, that's why cell phone jammers are illegal.

No, I don't think so. I believe that the problem is that you "jam" a signal by introducing a signal of your own, which is probably not confined strictly to your area of influence (ie, your building). So, even if I do not want cell signals to be usable in my house, blocking them will probably keep people well outside my house from having a good signal.

I believe that if you do jam illegally, it will be seen as property theft because another company paid the federal government to use that spectrum. Strange!

You can contact the FCC and see what is required for a private use license, which is available. My expectation is that the fee will not be high, but the cost of installation likely will be (because they would probably require some level of testing to make sure that you are not jamming where you should not be), but there is only a guess.

Off hand, I would say that it is worth investigating.

[Belinda Barfield]

No need for a jammer, make a policy that is reasonable and fair and then enforce it in a reasonable and fair manner. Don't like the rules? Don't work here!

If I was working for you I'd want to have my phone on me so that I would know if my wife had tried to call, then just like when I'm driving I handle the missed call when I'm able to. My wife knows to not leave a voice mail if the call is not important and to leave a message if she needs me to get back to her right away. If the call isn't from my wife it can wait till after work. I'd hate to work for a place that would boot me out for taking 2 seconds to see who the missed call was from so I know if I need to clock out or not.

As I said before, I am reasonable. The texting is the worst problem. We had one guy who held his phone under the work bench and woudl text during meetings.


I've been to several companies where cell phones are not permitted on the shop floor. You must either turn them off or leave them in your locker. If you are expecting an emergency call then you could leave your phone with the receptionist and she would take a message and get it to you immediately.

Since you currently allow phones, you need to announce a new policy and start it say July 1 so that people have some notice. However, once you set the policy everyone including managers must follow the policy.

Emergency calls will be transferred to the employee immediately unless the caller states that is okay for the employee to call them back. I would be happy to hold someone's phone if they are expecting an emergency call. Our shop manager currently leaves his phone in his car. There will be instances when managers will need to be able to use a cell in the shop as they sometimes receive calls with questions directly from a customer and may have to be looking at a part in order to answer the questions.

I don't mean to age bash, but the problem is with my 20-25 year olds. They have always been connected at the hip and just don't see it as a problem that they text their friends all day while being paid to work. This, of course is not a blanket statement regarding all in this age group, just the ones who work for me.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I'm with Belinda on this one. Our shop people waste inordinate amounts of time texting, web surfing talking with friends, etc during working hours. I've tried to get our owners to institute a smart phone policy to improve both productivity and safety, but to no avail. I have given up since one of the owners, the owner/production manager, can't seem to understand that as their boss he isn't their buddy. He is a very insecure person and needs constant affirmation that he is wonderful. It is really out of hand and my estimate is that we lose approzimetly 5% of our production to this out of control waste of time. I suspect that they will only come to understand when someone texting either blows a job with really expensive material or injures themselves and there is a workman's comp investigation. Burying your head in the sand and avoiding the issue is not the answer. Fortunately my interaction with this problem is limited. By the way, my cell phone stays in my car during business hours whether I'm in the office or on the road visiting customers.

[Dan Hintz]

I'm in a similar boat as Bruce. In my case, however, the group actively jams, well, everything in the area (say, a 1/4 mile radius). Let's just say this is the only group that can get away with such a thing within U.S. boundaries. There are no "special exceptions"... if you have a need to stay in touch 24/7 (such as transplant list peeps), you don't get to go into certain areas.

If we're not "neighbors", geographically speaking, it is illegal to operate a jammer. Time to slam the banhammer, Linda...

[Mac McQuinn]

Before I retired, I was required to carry a company owned Cel phone. This proved to be very unreliable inside & outside the plant and since my job involved emergency situations, I started carrying an older 2-way which was the same unit as our Security used. Very reliable and built like a tank. You could also place outgoing phone calls on it. Perfect tool for life and death situations and the ability to program channels enhances security.

Why not allow Pagers(remember those?) and if any one has a emergency call, they can immediately respond through a couple company provided land line phones in a "Quite Room" in plant.

Mac

[Pat Barry]

No one will want to work there. No one will understand why you are doing this to them. Your place of business shouldn't be a jail. Hire responsible people and show them some respect.

[Larry Browning]

Because we didn't have the kind of things we have today, such as organ transplants. Also, there was no alternative. Women had babies and the husband didn't know she had gone into labor. A child was seriously injured and the parents didn't know until the child had passed away.

Modern technology, such as cell phones, allows us to overcome those limitations. Why shouldn't we use the technology, and demand that it be available? I, for one, do not wish to go back to 1800's.

Mike

[And, I might add, if you had any of those situations, you'd demand access, also. It's easy to take that attitude until your ox is gored.]

My point is that we should not demand that someone else should bend over backwards to make sure everyone can be reached instantly. If you are in a situation that you feel you must be reachable, then it is YOUR responsibility to make sure you are, not mine. I am not saying we should not use modern technology. I am saying that we should not be forced to use it. I think if a business feels it is bad for business then they should have the right to ban the use of anything they want. If you feel you cannot bare to be unreachable, the don't go there, it's your choice. I cannot think of any situation where I would demand someone make sure I had access to technology.
Mike, I guess we can agree to disagree on this one.

[Mike Henderson]

My point is that we should not demand that someone else should bend over backwards to make sure everyone can be reached instantly. If you are in a situation that you feel you must be reachable, then it is YOUR responsibility to make sure you are, not mine. I am not saying we should not use modern technology. I am saying that we should not be forced to use it. I think if a business feels it is bad for business then they should have the right to ban the use of anything they want. If you feel you cannot bare to be unreachable, the don't go there, it's your choice. I cannot think of any situation where I would demand someone make sure I had access to technology.
Mike, I guess we can agree to disagree on this one.
Your original comment was was "How did we ever survive as a society before cell phones?" and I addressed that in my response. I never said that anyone owed anyone else access.

I read your comment as "why do we need instant access when we lived without it in the past?" and I gave you some examples of situations where we would need immediate access, and how immediate access could be very valuable in many situations. And because it's so valuable, people demand access from their cell phone companies when there are dead spots. It's not unreasonable that people who purchase cell phone service want uninterrupted service and demand better when they don't get it.

If we disagree, it is not about whether anyone "owes" someone else access (except that the cell phone provider "owes" access to their customers) because that was not what I said in my posting.

Mike

[John C Lawson]

With a cell phone, there are no intermediaries, no messages, no being away from your desk, in a meeting, counting on a co-worker to track you down. That is, no delays and no hiccups. I've gotten a call from an EMT a thousand miles away while I was driving in my car. I was able to analyze the situation and get it resolved over the phone in minutes, avoiding dangerous hypoglycemic seizures and a trip to the hospital for my daughter while on a band trip.

Think what you like; I cannot be convinced.

[harry hood]

They're widely in used Japan in theaters and restaurants and licensed. The Japanese ones are very cool, it's essentially cell proxy that only allows emergency calls out and maybe sms in and out, I don't recall. I don't know about 3G and 4G but for the older systems it was easy to make a jammer out of an old cordless phone (not that I would ever have done that of course) and schematics were widely available on usenet.

[harry hood]

P.S. it annoys me when the powers that be tell me what I can and can't do in my business on private property.

Well, the airwaves aren't your private property. But that sounds like an entirely reasonable policy to me, I'm really surprised more businesses don't have similar ones. Texting is the new smoking after all and if an employee spent their whole day sitting around smoking they'd get fired pretty quickly.

[harry hood]

I don't mean to age bash, but the problem is with my 20-25 year olds. They have always been connected at the hip and just don't see it as a problem that they text their friends all day while being paid to work. This, of course is not a blanket statement regarding all in this age group, just the ones who work for me.

It's not a blanket but it's a very large hand towel. I've had someone who was probably older than 25 actually take a phone call while I was interviewing her. Not, "[phone rings]Oh my, I'm sorry. I thought I turned that off". She actually answered and talked to the person for a couple minutes about dinner plans for the evening or something like that.

[harry hood]

Modern technology, such as cell phones, allows us to overcome those limitations. Why shouldn't we use the technology, and demand that it be available? I, for one, do not wish to go back to 1800's.


Well, for one cell phones immediately made obsolete many of the standard literary devices. Romeo and Juliet should have just texted and they would have lived..."Where u at J?" Nearly sitcom plot pre-1990 makes no sense now.

[curtis rosche]

a few of the places ive worked, if the boss sees your phone, no matter if its a call or text, you got sent home. second time was fired.

one way to stop the cnc operator from texting, require the use of gloves at all times. ones that still enable the use of the cnc, but would make it impossible for a touch screen or the small buttons on the phone. its a saftey measure :rolleyes:

in a few of the buildings at college, you get bars, but texts wont send apparently (we were told) due to some of the anntenae on the roof.


also, where the #%%@ do i sign up to work at $20 an hour?

[Larry Edgerton]

Cell phones stay in the car/truck on my shift. It costs me 42 cents a minute for people to talk on their phone, so they can do it on breaks. I only give one warning.

Larry

[Jim Matthews]

This begs a question; how good is the CNC op?

If the person in question is under 30, a texting ban will feel like an amputation.
That said, amend your employee handbook to limit communication to work-related tasks.

If that's insufficient, issue the clunky hand-helds mentioned above.

People rise to the level of your expectations.

I don't know the rigors of CNC vigilance, but I understand you're paying for ALL of their time on the clock.
Texting on the job amounts to pilferage. Weigh that against the OP's productivity.

[Belinda Barfield]

No one will want to work there. No one will understand why you are doing this to them. Your place of business shouldn't be a jail. Hire responsible people and show them some respect.

Not a jail Pat. Should I just make it a policy that if an employee wants to receive or send a text, or make or receive a non emergency related phone call, they must do it on their own time? That's a lot of clocking in and out and I'm fairly sure productivity will plummet. I show my employees a great deal of respect, and I expect the same of them in return. That's what this basically boils down to, respect for me as an employer and the job they were hired to perform.




also, where the #%%@ do i sign up to work at $20 an hour?

Georgia. :)


Cell phones stay in the car/truck on my shift. It costs me 42 cents a minute for people to talk on their phone, so they can do it on breaks. I only give one warning.

Larry

Larry, my 42 centers leave their cell phones in the car. So does my 43 center. I've seen a phone in the hand of my 50 center once when we pulled an all nighter and he called his wife to tell her he wasn't coming home, at which time he had rolled over to being a 75 center.

After a meeting last night we've decided to allow employees to keep their phones in the shop if they so desire, and take only emergency calls. We'll see how it goes from there.

[Matt Meiser]

Send someone home a time or two--which might mean you and/or others might end up having to take up the slack to meet a deadline--and show them you are serious. I'd bet it drops way back.

[Belinda Barfield]

Send someone home a time or two--which might mean you and/or others might end up having to take up the slack to meet a deadline--and show them you are serious. I'd bet it drops way back.

That's the plan.

From my calculations it appears that any income generated from increased productivity will be offset by the increase in toilet paper expenditures.;)

[Steve Meliza]

I have rarely been paid by the hour and I've been working since I was 12, it's almost always been based on productivity or salary. When pay is based on productivity that meets product quality standards and deducted for products that do not you get people that are very motivated to work quickly and with quality. At my current salary job I have a base pay then bonuses based on company profitability and customer satisfaction. My boss could care less how much time I spend on the cell phone or typing up this post while on the computer at work, because all he cares about is if I get the job done on time and to his satisfaction (I just got a pay raise so I must be doing ok).

Maybe a little positive motivation or recognition for your high performers would help encourage the slackers. If not, get rid of the boys and hire men. Best wishes on solving your issue, you sound like reasonable folk.

[Steve Meliza]

where the #%%@ do i sign up to work at $20 an hour? Why bother going to college if you can't get a job for at least that much if not more when you graduate?

[Belinda Barfield]

Why bother going to college if you can't get a job for at least that much if not more when you graduate?

Interestingly enough 2 of my highest paid employees didn't even finish high school.

I'm currently on eternal landline hold by the way, so thought I'd stop in. There is a landline extension in the employee's kitchen, and a private office extension if they need it.

[curtis rosche]

Why bother going to college if you can't get a job for at least that much if not more when you graduate?

you would be suprised how hard it is to find a job above $10 an hour around here with only two years of college down and planning on going back in the fall. alot of places love my application, tell me its perfect exactly what they are looking for. but when i tell them im going back to school in the fall they all back away and say it was nice to meet you but we wont be calling you. i had one company ask me if i could be a full time student and work third shift 7 days a week. no way that would be sustainable

[Mike Cutler]

Mike and John

I re-read my post and saw that it lacked compassion, and that was not the intent when I referred to emergencies.
There will always be emergency situations that arise, and being on an organ transplant list, and having a family member with a known chronic condition will always fall into that category.
I work in a nuclear power plant, and believe me that once you leave the office/admin areas and enter the plants, cell phones do not work. 3'-6' thick concrete walls, with the miles of rebar and metal linings make it impossible to get a cell signal from outside without repeaters. In addition every cell phone carrier frequency would have to be analyzed for stray interference with plant equipment, so the engineering review would take forever to get the clearance.
We have handled situations exactly as you both describe, and some equally as critical, by issuing company cell phones and beepers, that work on our private WIFI, and intranet, to people that have situational emergencies involving family members that require prompt action.We've even hooked up to heart monitors that report 24/7, via WIFI, to cardiac care facilities to our system for folks that have had heart surgeries and are reporting to back to work after long FMLA abscenses.
Apologies if I appeared insensitive. it was not my intent.

[John C Lawson]

Mike and John

I re-read my post and saw that it lacked compassion, and that was not the intent when I referred to emergencies.
There will always be emergency situations that arise, and being on an organ transplant list, and having a family member with a known chronic condition will always fall into that category.
I work in a nuclear power plant, and believe me that once you leave the office/admin areas and enter the plants, cell phones do not work. 3'-6' thick concrete walls, with the miles of rebar and metal linings make it impossible to get a cell signal from outside without repeaters. In addition every cell phone carrier frequency would have to be analyzed for stray interference with plant equipment, so the engineering review would take forever to get the clearance.
We have handled situations exactly as you both describe, and some equally as critical, by issuing company cell phones and beepers, that work on our private WIFI, and intranet, to people that have situational emergencies involving family members that require prompt action.We've even hooked up to heart monitors that report 24/7, via WIFI, to cardiac care facilities to our system for folks that have had heart surgeries and are reporting to back to work after long FMLA abscenses.
Apologies if I appeared insensitive. it was not my intent.

No problem, Mike. Perhaps I was a little overly "forthright" myself. And Belinda seems to have acheived a reasonable resolution to her issue also.

[Scott T Smith]

In answer to Belinda's original question, yes cell phone jammers are VERY illegal, as well as harmful to public security in general.

Cell phones operate over several different spectrum bands, depending upon their underlying technology as well as the frequencies that they are licensed to operate on. In some instances, public safety (including local and state police, fire, as well as various Federal Agencies) operate on frequencies that are either adjacent to, or near the same spectrum as used by the cellular carriers.

In order to jam a signal, you have to generate a similar, but more powerful signal on or near the same frequency. Thus, the jammers will not only jam the cellular carriers spectrum, they may also jam the local police or fire departments spectrum as well.

The use of radio spectrum is closely managed by the FCC. Certain frequency ranges are made available for public use (think CB radio, spread spectrum home wireless phones, etc), but almost all of the spectrum is controlled by the FCC and licensed to specific users, in specific bands, and for specific purposes. Jammers basically are an unlicensed radio transmitter.

Think of the liability that would be incurred if an emergency occured within your facility, and first responders could not communicate with themselves or their dispatchers when they needed additional support. This is not a position that you want to place yourself in - especially if someone gets hurt as a result.

Bottom line - it is best to handle this situation via HR Policy.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike and John

I re-read my post and saw that it lacked compassion, and that was not the intent when I referred to emergencies.
There will always be emergency situations that arise, and being on an organ transplant list, and having a family member with a known chronic condition will always fall into that category.
I work in a nuclear power plant, and believe me that once you leave the office/admin areas and enter the plants, cell phones do not work. 3'-6' thick concrete walls, with the miles of rebar and metal linings make it impossible to get a cell signal from outside without repeaters. In addition every cell phone carrier frequency would have to be analyzed for stray interference with plant equipment, so the engineering review would take forever to get the clearance.
We have handled situations exactly as you both describe, and some equally as critical, by issuing company cell phones and beepers, that work on our private WIFI, and intranet, to people that have situational emergencies involving family members that require prompt action.We've even hooked up to heart monitors that report 24/7, via WIFI, to cardiac care facilities to our system for folks that have had heart surgeries and are reporting to back to work after long FMLA abscenses.
Apologies if I appeared insensitive. it was not my intent.
No offense taken, Mike. But once you experience a situation such as having a loved one on a transplant list, you come to appreciate being able to be contacted any time.

But for work related stuff I was not so appreciative of being on a digital leash. Like many things in life, there's good and bad in all of it.

Mike

[Greg Portland]

P.S. it annoys me when the powers that be tell me what I can and can't do in my business on private property.
You would be stealing from other companies. They have purchased the right to use that bandwidth... any device that you install is considered stealing that bandwidth (just like pirate radio, etc.).

Having said that, there is nothing illegal about taking passive measures. For example, you could turn your building into a giant Faraday cage. Since you already have metal siding and a metal roof your should just need to beef up the building's connection to ground (multiple ground rods, 7-8ft deep, tied into the building's siding). Ensure that all the metal panels are electrically tied to each other. Any large holes will significantly reduce the effectiveness of the cage.

[Belinda Barfield]

You would be stealing from other companies. They have purchased the right to use that bandwidth... any device that you install is considered stealing that bandwidth (just like pirate radio, etc.).


To all who have responded to my P.S. comment, understand that I have no idea how jammers actually work, so please forgive my stupidity.

[Jason Roehl]

To all who have responded to my P.S. comment, understand that I have no idea how jammers actually work, so please forgive my stupidity.

Belinda, that's not stupidity, it's ignorance--which you have now shed by asking the question and having it answered. Ignorance is fixed by learning. Stupid can't be fixed.

Being a self-employed contractor, I make/take calls all day long. I've taken to ignoring any whose number I don't recognize--those can go to voicemail. Otherwise, some days I wouldn't get anything done. Another (very successful) contractor once told me that he has an employee who has been like a member of the family for over 20 years, and if he caught that employee on the phone during work hours, he'd only get one warning.

I'm with some of the others--get tough on the clock, but break time is their time. Emergencies can go through your front office, who can determine if it's truly an emergency or not.

[Belinda Barfield]

I'm with some of the others--get tough on the clock, but break time is their time. Emergencies can go through your front office, who can determine if it's truly an emergency or not.

Agreed, break time and lunch I don't care what they do as long a they can pass a random drug or alcohol screen. I decided that having emergency calls come only through the office could at some point lead to an issue of liability. Missed call, mom can't tell ER doc that child is allergic to penicillin, child dies. They can take their own emergency calls and the office line is the back up.

[Eric DeSilva]

I realize the issue is sort of over--and I commend Belinda's solution--but in case others stumble upon the thread...

Scott provided a good synopsis, but to be explicit about an issue he is raising implicitly--just as your building doesn't stop radio signals from coming in, it won't stop radio signals--including jammers--from going out. That means you may be jamming communications from people in public areas outside your building or property. Radio waves behave in strange ways and may propagate to places you haven't imagined--while your employees might even consent as part of their employment contract to be subject to jamming, third parties driving (or flying) by--including police, fire and ambulance services--have not. And, yes, while many places have natural properties restricting the availability of mobile communications, those dependent upon radio can take notice of that and make appropriate adjustments to their behavior--"look, my mobile is showing no signal, time to move to an area with coverage" or "I'll let the dispatcher know I'm offline." It is entirely different to have someone believe they have coverage when they do not.

[Brian Elfert]

Agreed, break time and lunch I don't care what they do as long a they can pass a random drug or alcohol screen. I decided that having emergency calls come only through the office could at some point lead to an issue of liability. Missed call, mom can't tell ER doc that child is allergic to penicillin, child dies. They can take their own emergency calls and the office line is the back up.

I don't see how your office would be any more liable for emergency communications than you would have been before cell phones. In the old days your office phone was the only way for someone to get an emergency call.

[Scott Shepherd]

Let's not confuse the issue. An organ transplant situation is not the same as someone that wants to know if you want to grab a beer later. I've worked with people that had family members on the transplant list. They made it public and everyone in the building knew the situation and knew it was a top priority situation.

If anyone is expecting a text message for a transplant list, they aren't too smart. Text messages are NOT 100%. I've had dozens and dozens of texts not reach someone and I've not gotten many a text message people have sent. I had one last week. The guy was in the room next to me and was talking to a customer. I had some important information to get to him, privately for what he was talking about. I texted it to him and listened for his phone to indicate he got the message. It never rang. I called him aside, told him in person, and he pulled his phone out and there was no message from me. I resent it while I was standing there, it never came through. I've had that happen many times.

So it your argument is that people on transplant lists need text messaging, my message would be that they need a phone, not a text message.

I would never ever, ever, ever text message time sensitive, health related messages to anyone. That's just irresponsible.

There's also a very large part of West Virginia that's a radio free zone, so they don't have service. Look it up on google. Look up the Green Bank area and the satellites they have there. No cell towers around. I guess some of you can't travel there because of that. Cell phones are a privilege, not a right.
People know where you work. If they need you, they are free to call your place of work.

It's a place of business, not a social club.

[Matt Meiser]

Or you could just get all of your employees Sprint phones on the company. Odds of those actually working are slim. :D

[Mike Henderson]

Let's not confuse the issue. An organ transplant situation is not the same as someone that wants to know if you want to grab a beer later. I've worked with people that had family members on the transplant list. They made it public and everyone in the building knew the situation and knew it was a top priority situation.

If anyone is expecting a text message for a transplant list, they aren't too smart. Text messages are NOT 100%. I've had dozens and dozens of texts not reach someone and I've not gotten many a text message people have sent. I had one last week. The guy was in the room next to me and was talking to a customer. I had some important information to get to him, privately for what he was talking about. I texted it to him and listened for his phone to indicate he got the message. It never rang. I called him aside, told him in person, and he pulled his phone out and there was no message from me. I resent it while I was standing there, it never came through. I've had that happen many times.

So it your argument is that people on transplant lists need text messaging, my message would be that they need a phone, not a text message.

I would never ever, ever, ever text message time sensitive, health related messages to anyone. That's just irresponsible.

There's also a very large part of West Virginia that's a radio free zone, so they don't have service. Look it up on google. Look up the Green Bank area and the satellites they have there. No cell towers around. I guess some of you can't travel there because of that. Cell phones are a privilege, not a right.
People know where you work. If they need you, they are free to call your place of work.

It's a place of business, not a social club.
When an organ becomes available for transplant, the potential recipient will be called by voice phone, they will not receive a text message. The organ group needs to know that the potential recipient is available and can get to the hospital in a certain amount of time. If not, the organ will go to the next person on the list who is a tissue match.

When my wife got the call, the organ was not even harvested yet. She had to get to the hospital, where they verified that she was in condition to receive the organ (healthy enough to withstand the surgery, no colds or other infections -and probably other things). Once she passed all the tests, the message was sent to the organ harvesting team who harvested the organ and put it on a plane (the donor was in another state). We got the call about 6:30am and she went into surgery late in the day.

So, just to reiterate, the contact must be made by voice contact, not by text or email or any other form of communications. (I guess TDD would be used if the recipient was deaf.) So you definitely want to make sure your cell phone battery is charged and your phone is turned on. If they can't reach you, they go to the next person on the list.

[Prior to everyone having cell phones, they used beepers and you had to call the transplant center in a certain amount of time.]

Mike

[I might also comment that long before even getting on the transplant list, you have to go through an extensive battery of tests, both physical and psychological. They want to know if you have any other diseases that might kill you, or would interfere with the organ. So if you have cancer and a bad heart, you may not be approved for a heart transplant because they have to suppress your immune system for the transplant, and that could allow the cancer to run wild. Or if you need a kidney transplant but have a bad heart, you might not get approved. Psychologically, you have to be able to manage the drug regime you'll be on. If you suffer from depression, you might not get accepted, depending on how bad it is. etc.]
[They also want to know that you have the ability to pay for the surgery, either through insurance or that you're very wealthy.]

[Scott Shepherd]

Mike, I don't think anyone disagrees with someone on a transplant list being tethered to some form of communication. I think you'd have to agree that the people Belinda is having an issue with aren't on the transplant list, they are texting back and forth all day. Two totally different issues.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, I don't think anyone disagrees with someone on a transplant list being tethered to some form of communication. I think you'd have to agree that the people Belinda is having an issue with aren't on the transplant list, they are texting back and forth all day. Two totally different issues.
I was replying to your comment that, "If anyone is expecting a text message for a transplant list, they aren't too smart". Text messages are not used for transplant notification.

Mike

[Belinda Barfield]

I don't see how your office would be any more liable for emergency communications than you would have been before cell phones. In the old days your office phone was the only way for someone to get an emergency call.

I've seen some incredibly strange things end up in lawsuits. I don't know if the scenario would result in an issue of liability or not, but I'm sure there is an attorney out there that would take the case. Also, it boiled down to how horrible I would feel if I missed a call and an employee didn't get a message about an emergency.

Let's all agree that those on transplant lists and those with serious medical conditions are off the table. Those types of employees obviously need to have access to their cell phones if they have one.

[Matt Radtke]

Dumb question: Are you perhaps using the wrong tool? If you have people who are on their phone that much, surely they aren't meeting quotas, production goals, or some other metric? Why not approach the problem from that way? Up your production or we have a problem.

Or to look at the argument from another angle, if they are meeting their goals, does it matter that they are on their phone? Obvious "Yes" answers include issues like safety and liability, which you'd have no trouble convincing me of in most shops.

[Belinda Barfield]

Dumb question: Are you perhaps using the wrong tool? If you have people who are on their phone that much, surely they aren't meeting quotas, production goals, or some other metric? Why not approach the problem from that way? Up your production or we have a problem.

Or to look at the argument from another angle, if they are meeting their goals, does it matter that they are on their phone? Obvious "Yes" answers include issues like safety and liability, which you'd have no trouble convincing me of in most shops.

Part of it is an awareness and safety issue. I've seen parts fly off of a CNC table or router table. Once when we were moving a partial stone slab the clamp let go and the slab fell to the concrete. The stone was onyx, which breaks into glass-like shards. Fortunately, everyone was paying attention and got out of the way. I was one of the people "walking" the slab at the time and yelled "get clear" when I realized that the slab was slipping. If an employee couldn't heart me call out, or was texting instead of keeping an eye on the slab, the outcome could have been very serious. And yes, I realize that there are other distractions, etc., but at least I can try to minimize them.

[Belinda Barfield]

Just a follow up. Everyone had complied with the new policy. I told them whenever they were finished with their work for the day they could go home (today is our "Friday"). They were finished by noon and surprised me with a cookout for lunch. :)

[ray hampton]

while cell phones are a handy tool to use how many calls are miss because of the tower are too -far away ?

[Pat Barry]

There you go. Better results with a bit of honey. Love it.

[Brian Elfert]

while cell phones are a handy tool to use how many calls are miss because of the tower are too -far away ?

Not very often these days. I went out west last fall and there wasn't a single place I had no signal on my phone that I know of. Even out in the middle of the desert many miles from civilization there is cell service now. If one is on a transplant list they need to be very careful about always having cell service.

There are some buildings that block cell service. My employer's Verizon cell phones don't work inside our printing plant. There has been talk for several years of adding femto cells inside the building, but it never happens.

[ray hampton]

Not very often these days. I went out west last fall and there wasn't a single place I had no signal on my phone that I know of. Even out in the middle of the desert many miles from civilization there is cell service now. If one is on a transplant list they need to be very careful about always having cell service.

There are some buildings that block cell service. My employer's Verizon cell phones don't work inside our printing plant. There has been talk for several years of adding femto cells inside the building, but it never happens.

just how expensive are femto cells

[Kevin W Johnson]

I've seen some incredibly strange things end up in lawsuits. I don't know if the scenario would result in an issue of liability or not, but I'm sure there is an attorney out there that would take the case.

Yeah, like the case in New Jersey. Where someone is being sued for sending a text massage, that someone else answered while driving that resulted in an accident where two occupants each lost a leg. Both parties are being sued, but suing the sender of the message is akin to suing the cell phone company for delivering that message. This is an example of a case where the attorney should should be fined, and or have their license to pratice law suspended for a determined amount of time for filing such a suit.

Whether the sender knew the receiver was driving or not, it simply doesn't matter. The driver that decided to read and/or attempt to respnd is solely responsible.

[Brian Elfert]

just how expensive are femto cells

$250 from Verizon.

[Matt Meiser]

Free from sprint if you threaten to leave due to poor service. But you need a decent broadband connection.

Repeater antennas work well too. Basically two antennas and an amplifier. One goes outside and one inside. They are pricy though.

[ray hampton]

$250 from Verizon.

when or if I bought a femcell will someone be able to use with with their cell phone to get better service when they are close to the cell

[Matt Radtke]

Yeah, like the case in New Jersey. Where someone is being sued for sending a text massage, that someone else answered while driving that resulted in an accident where two occupants each lost a leg. Both parties are being sued, but suing the sender of the message is akin to suing the cell phone company for delivering that message. This is an example of a case where the attorney should should be fined, and or have their license to pratice law suspended for a determined amount of time for filing such a suit.

Whether the sender knew the receiver was driving or not, it simply doesn't matter. The driver that decided to read and/or attempt to respnd is solely responsible.

I have had a few conversations with lawyers on other forums and apparently, they kind of have to sue 'everyone' related to the an incident to prevent "it wasn't my fault, it was that party's fault" defenses being mounted and losing the suit. At least, that is how my non-lawyer brain understood the simple version they gave me.

[Brian Elfert]

when or if I bought a femcell will someone be able to use with with their cell phone to get better service when they are close to the cell

My co-worker who has one at home isn't in today, but I believe he said you can limit who can use it if you want. It isn't that powerful so folks have to be pretty close for their phone to connect to it.

It does use your Internet connection.

[Mike Henderson]

Yeah, like the case in New Jersey. Where someone is being sued for sending a text massage, that someone else answered while driving that resulted in an accident where two occupants each lost a leg. Both parties are being sued, but suing the sender of the message is akin to suing the cell phone company for delivering that message. This is an example of a case where the attorney should should be fined, and or have their license to pratice law suspended for a determined amount of time for filing such a suit.

Whether the sender knew the receiver was driving or not, it simply doesn't matter. The driver that decided to read and/or attempt to respnd is solely responsible.
I read a pretty complete analysis of that case. The general consensus was that if the woman knew that the person who she was sending to was driving, then it's possible she could be sued for contributory negligence. If she was unaware of the fact that the person was driving, it's pretty clear she could not be successfully sued.

The lawyers gave examples of situations where there could be a successful case of suing for contributory negligence. If the sender was in a position of authority, such as someone's boss, and was told that the receiver was driving - but continued to send texts and demanded responses, the boss could be sued for contributory negligence.

The particular case you mentioned will depend on how much the sender knew. And if she knew, did she continue to send texts. And even then, it will be up to a jury to decide if that constitutes contributory negligence. It's certainly not a clear cut case.

Mike

[Bill Wyko]

Dock em an hours pay if caught using it. That should jam their phone up pretty quick. 8-)

[Andrew Pitonyak]

The particular case you mentioned will depend on how much the sender knew.


Hilarious..... Text messages are usually send and forget, so I often send text messages to people that are driving their car. Of course, I don't expect them to see it immediately because it is not worth the time to pull over to read/answer if you do not use tools to convert text to speech and back again (to automate the process).

[Mike Henderson]

Hilarious..... Text messages are usually send and forget, so I often send text messages to people that are driving their car. Of course, I don't expect them to see it immediately because it is not worth the time to pull over to read/answer if you do not use tools to convert text to speech and back again (to automate the process).
Let me correct my statement. I think the analysts said that if she knew he was driving, and that he was reading the texts, AND she continued to send texts, she might be liable for contributory negligence. So simply knowing that the receiver was driving was not sufficient. The sender had to know that the person was reading the texts while driving, replying, and yet continued to send texts to the driver. One way to prove that was if the driver send a reply saying something like, "I'm driving down the I90 right now..." Without that kind of thread, it's going to be tough to prove that she knew, or should have known, that he was driving and texting.

Mike

[Update here (http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/25/11882085-judge-rules-text-message-sender-not-liable-in-distracted-driving-crash-case?lite). Not liable.]

[Larry Browning]

Cases like this drive me absolutely bonkers! We MUST be responsible for our own actions, regardless of what others do. We need to stop trying to blame others for our own screw ups. It should not matter if that person knew the guy on the other end was driving and texting. It is not his responsibly to control the other guy's actions. That guy should know he should not be doing that, it is his responsibly and no one else's to not text and drive.
It really is that simple.

[Jason Roehl]

Preach it, Larry!

[ray hampton]

Cases like this drive me absolutely bonkers! We MUST be responsible for our own actions, regardless of what others do. We need to stop trying to blame others for our own screw ups. It should not matter if that person knew the guy on the other end was driving and texting. It is not his responsibly to control the other guy's actions. That guy should know he should not be doing that, it is his responsibly and no one else's to not text and drive.
It really is that simple.


do this apply to the use of guns and sue the gun company or the car company because of the gas tank fires

[Steve knight]

I am in the basement of a old concrete building with huge amounts of rebar in it. 1" to 2" apart I get a great signal once att went to 850 frequency. So it is tower location and type of signal that will effect it more.

[Jim Becker]

I may be wrong, but despite the ease of buying a cell phone jammer, I think they're outright illegal in the US.

That was my understanding, too.

[Jeff Belany]

I know I won't really get one (a jammer) but sure think about it when the kids in the theater spend the whole movie texting and the bright screens are very annoying. Maybe I'm just an old cuss but I really enjoy the movies and the phones are really a pain. And with kids, no amount of the theater telling them they are supposed to turn their phones off does any good. Besides, the way kids act these days, they probably have an attorney on retainer if you say anything.

Jeff in northern Wisconsin

[Larry Browning]

I know I won't really get one (a jammer) but sure think about it when the kids in the theater spend the whole movie texting and the bright screens are very annoying. Maybe I'm just an old cuss but I really enjoy the movies and the phones are really a pain. And with kids, no amount of the theater telling them they are supposed to turn their phones off does any good. Besides, the way kids act these days, they probably have an attorney on retainer if you say anything.

Jeff in northern Wisconsin
+1 on this! I recently went to the movies where there was a whole row of teenagers sitting behind us at the theater. They were all talking and giggling. The one directly behind me kept bumping my seat. I finally turned around and shushed them. I heard one say "whatever!". I just wanted to strangle them! (But then I realized that I must be responsible for my own actions! Even though I was provoked, and felt I would have been justified;))

[Eric DeSilva]

What you guys (Jeff & Larry) are describing really surprises me. I go to the movies on a fairly regular basis and live in the cell-phone obsessed DC suburbs (NoVA). I cannot remember the last time I heard a cell phone ring in the theater or saw light from a cell phone during the movie (I will caveat that by saying "during the movie"--when the theater is playing the ads for TV shows/video games and running trivia slides, that doesn't count in my book). There are plenty of rude people talking, making other noises, kicking chairs, whatever... But I haven't been bothered by phones. I can't believe DC is polite-er than the rest of the country. What gives?

[ray hampton]

do you know of any machine like a saw or cord drill that will feed static into a cell phone, I made a cell call today while I were using the computer and the outboard speakers were popping big time until I finish the call

[Eric DeSilva]

Ray, there are many, many things that produce radiofrequency (RF) energy--anything that creates electrical sparks, most digital circuits, motors, and lots and lots of stuff both natural and man-made. Computer circuitry isn't immune to RF interference either--low level signals can get interfered with, and then amplified to become audible when the speakers are used. While the FCC does require some certifications for products that produce RF interference, things that act as passive receivers--like your computer--are typically unregulated. I believe the theory is that if you want it fixed, you can simply move away from your computer.

[ray hampton]

Ray, there are many, many things that produce radiofrequency (RF) energy--anything that creates electrical sparks, most digital circuits, motors, and lots and lots of stuff both natural and man-made. Computer circuitry isn't immune to RF interference either--low level signals can get interfered with, and then amplified to become audible when the speakers are used. While the FCC does require some certifications for products that produce RF interference, things that act as passive receivers--like your computer--are typically unregulated. I believe the theory is that if you want it fixed, you can simply move away from your computer.

IF THE TOOLS that emit RF or what ever signals do bother the stinky cell phone [why do so many people walk around talking to themselves] are strong enough to bother the phone signal[ CAN YOU HEARD ME NOW ?

[harry hood]

IF THE TOOLS that emit RF or what ever signals do bother the stinky cell phone [why do so many people walk around talking to themselves] are strong enough to bother the phone signal[ CAN YOU HEARD ME NOW ?

Modern cell phones are using such a high frequency that there isn't much, at least in the consumer world, that would interfere with them in a serious way. Of course in the unlicensed garbage frequencies where cordless phones, wifi, baby monitors, etc. live it's a real mess and one person's microwave oven is another's network lag.