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View Full Version : Recommended sander(s) for corian plaque edges



Rich Fennessey
05-14-2012, 9:50 PM
I only own an orbital sander and a vibrating mouse sander (yeah I know, I'm not an experienced woodworker and I think a sawzall can occasionally be a fine woodworking instrument - LOL).

I'm noticing how critical it is for the ADA sign plaque to be perfectly flat on the side before running the ogee bit around it, otherwise the deformation shows all the way to the top. Does someone have a recommendation for a small sander that would work best for the corian plaques? I figure some type of belt sander for the edge. I also remember you saying that if you use colored corian that you will get the white frosting effect that requires cleanup. Do you use a circular flap sanding pad on that or is that just using manual sand paper or something else? I've been using the orbital sander for the top and side for now but thinking I'm going to need something else when doing quantity. I primarily sand down the tabs from the CNC profile cutout but sometimes there are other spots. To get the curves, I thought I might need some type of small diameter cylindrical sander.

Small size/portable is best since I have limited space at the time.

AL Ursich
05-14-2012, 11:55 PM
Just a thought..... Rough Cut the blanks and apply a perfect hardboard guide with double stick or make a Vacuum Jig.... Then with a Router Table and a Bearing bit make a clean up pass around the blank leaving pretty good edges.... I have even seen a Drum Sander Jig for a Drill Press and a edge guide bearing to follow your pattern.

Bearing Bits come in Spiral Too.... for a smoother finish.... Keith will chime in..... I believe he is our Subject Matter Expert in this area...

Good Luck,

AL

Keith Outten
05-15-2012, 8:48 AM
FWIW I could never make it without my edge and spindle sanders. They are both essential tools in my shop and for Corian signs in particular.
The edge sander is used on almost every sign blank to remove the tabs left by my CNC Router. I rarely have to sand the contoured edges, generally speaking they are acceptable off the CNC Router. Sign blank edges won't always be perfectly smooth, most of the time they are acceptable and don't require any further work other than routing the final edge detail. If your edges are very rough you might try adjusting your CNC Router or possibly the graphic to see if you can improve the edge quality.

If a particular job required perfectly smooth edges I would take Al's advice and create a routing template that I could fix to the sign blanks (using vacuum) and run around the blanks with a bearing bit just to clean up the edge.

I never recommend dark colored Corian for ADA signs because the edges frost when routed. It is a time consuming job to polish the edges after routing, particularly when you have hundreds of sign blanks to produce. I tell customers that I offer dark colored signs if they are willing to pay for the additional labor costs however they almost always agree with me when I tell them that sign blanks should be as close to the color of the wall as possible. From a design point of view you don't want to look down a hallway and see rows of dark signs along a light colored wall, signs should be designed to enhance a beautiful building not degrade the design. When I walk down a hallway I prefer the signs to be barely visible until I am in front of the sign. Because the dark colored text and graphics are a small part of the sign surface area they don't attract your eye until you are standing right in front of the sign.

Rich, your can use a sanding drum on your drill press as a temporary means of sanding curved edges. Once your volume increases a spindle sander will be faster and do a better job. The Jet bench top spindle sander is a solid machine with a half horse motor that works well. You don't have to purchase a large free standing spindle sander if you don't have the space in your shop.

I have an answer for you concerning the icon question you asked a few days ago. I am still working a backlog of Private Messages and email from the last two weeks. The ADA sign session and on May 5th and 6th and then my daughters graduation on May 12th have kept me busy :)
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Rich Fennessey
05-15-2012, 6:57 PM
Congrads on your daughter's graduation. That is a big day. I hope you took some time and enjoyed it.

I'm still optimizing my tab size so that they don't break off too easy and take part of the plaque with it. I did one and there was a good chunk out and the ogee bit must have gone in a good 1/3 inch more than the normal profile - that was a throwaway. I'm way more careful looking at the edges now. There are a lot of chips coming off when using that ogee bit, I'm covered, my machine is covered and I'm still running a 4" vacuum hose right next to it. I was using my 4 HP router spindle as a stationary router.

Thanks for the input. I couldn't remember the name of the spindle sander but knew I would need something like that to sand the gentle curves. Also, that is good advice on the plaque matching the wall color - I don't think I remember you telling it that way. I know you always recommended the light colors.

I'm still messing with the right router bit and depth to cut out the Rowmark plastic. I'm not sure I like the lines cut in the corian when cutting the pictograms and letters. The surface really needs to be perfectly flat. I can see that being a quality control issue using the CNC router only method. I have done some research on laser engravers but going to either hold off or outsource that if need to go that route. That glacier white corian and the blue Rowmark plastic really do make a nice looking sign.

Mick A Martin
05-16-2012, 7:36 PM
I am changing my technique for making the ADA signs, I have gone to pocketing the pictogram and text (similar to Keith) but using the router. I am really thinking about buying a laser engraver to cut out the Rowmark plastic. At present I am trying double sided tape, mini vacuum table, tabs etc etc .....

Keith is there any SMC discount if I but a Trotec Speedy 300

Leo Graywacz
05-16-2012, 7:44 PM
And small belt sander would work. Just set it up as an edge sander with a few blocks and clamps.

Keith Outten
05-17-2012, 8:14 AM
Mick,

You Bet!

Trotec is offering a discount to Members of SawMill Creek. Call me and I can give you the phone number and name of their Sales Director.
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Rich Fennessey
05-24-2012, 6:51 AM
I finally picked up a sander, it is a Rigid Oscillating Edge Belt/Spindle sander. It seem to have pretty good reviews, the change from belt to spindle is tool-less and supposedly quick. I liked the idea of the all in one. At $199 it should be good enough for the near term. I haven't even opened the box yet, probably try it out this weekend.

Keith Outten
05-24-2012, 8:00 AM
Rich,

We have the same sander in the sign shop at CNU. I purchased it about a year ago and we have used it to produce in the neighborhood of several hundred sign blanks by now. I doubt it will last for many years but it is still a good machine for the money if the small size fits your projects.
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Ken Dolph
05-29-2012, 6:54 AM
Keith et al

There is a cheat for the "frosting" on dark Corian. Spray the edge with Dupli-Color clear engine enamel. Poof - frosting gone.

Rich Fennessey
05-30-2012, 9:42 PM
Thanks for the tip Ken, that may encourage me to buy and try some colored Corian. By the way, do you have any recommendations for paint to be used on Corian for outside use? I searched the forum and saw older posts from Keith but he hadn't seen more than a couple of years of wear with his paint - but that was 4 years ago. Maybe Keith will chime in with an updated experience with painted Corian longevity.

Keith Outten
05-31-2012, 1:00 AM
Thanks Ken for the tip, I will give it a try ASAP.

Rich, I have never found any type of paint that won't stick to Corian, even latex seems to adhere to the surface really well.
I'm pretty sure that I now have Corian signs that have been outside for five years. So far not one sign has had to be serviced other than washing the Corian when it gets dirty. Most of the time rain will do the job and keep exterior signs looking pretty good however car exhaust and certain types of pollution will require a manual wash with soap and water.

Correction, I have two Corian signs that I installed outside of Potomac River Hall in 2004 so that's eight years.
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Gary Whitehair
02-23-2013, 9:57 AM
[QUOTE=Keith Outten;1927632] I could never make it without my edge and spindle sanders.

I came across this older post. Could you recommend specific edge and spindle sanders? Thank you for your assistance.

Keith Outten
02-23-2013, 10:42 AM
Gary,

In my shop at home I have one of the cheapest 6" by 80" edge sanders you could find anywhere. The quality is probably a bit less than you would expect from HF, I purchased the sander new for about 60 bucks at one of the traveling tool shows. I figured it was worth the price if the motor lasted any time at all. I have been using this machine for probably 8 years now, it still works well and i won't replace it until it dies.

I mentioned that we used a Rigid Oscillating Edge Belt/Spindle sander for the shop at CNU, it has been a pretty good machine for the money. I really do recommend purchasing better quality tools but sometimes the lower quality machines will serve the purpose long enough to get your operation profitable enough to afford better machines. The Rigid machine has both edge and spindle sanding capability so it is the best bang for the buck if your budget is tight.

I purchased a Jet bench top spindle sander years ago for my shop. It has a 1/2 HP motor and the tilting cast iron top, seems to be a very solid machine and I doubt I will ever wear it out. When the edge sander in my shop finally dies I will replace it with one of the Grizzly floor style edge sanders which I feel are the best value available right now.
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Paul Phillips
02-26-2013, 7:20 PM
Keith, I've done a lot of Corian signs also and have used plenty of darker colors but I haven't had too much trouble getting past the frosted edges, I use high quality (makes all the difference) Dynabrade 6" dual action sanders, 1/4" action for roughing with 220-320 grit and 3/16" action for finishing with 400-600 grit paper, then I finish up with some 0000 steel wool with a quick hand buff for a nice sheen that looks great. The darker colors are definitely less forgiving of scratches and finished look, but with a little extra work and some practice it sure comes out beautiful. I have a vacuum table on my CNC machines though so I don't have to use tabs, I just take them off the table and DA sand, of course using a quality end mill sure helps the edge quality also, I use Onsrud single edge 0-flute cutters. We did some lighted monument signs a while back using some Corian "Night Sky" that turned out great.

255499

Paul

Rich Fennessey
02-26-2013, 9:27 PM
I really like your lighted monument sign. Are the Garden Pavilion letters flush with the surface or are they a layered on the inside? Sounds like you have a well proven procedure for sanding. I've had some luck with those sponge sand paper for some finish work. So far I haven't had to work on items that need to have the high finish factor and I primarily work on lighter colors. I'm still pretty new at this with a lot to learn.

I recently purchased one of those little sanding triangle attachments for a multitool. It is about 1" wide and 1 1/2" long. That works ok for getting into carved tight areas where hand sanding gets tiresome. I use that on my cheese tray board since pocketing out the interior to a depth of .15" causes a line around the exterior of the pocket. My 4" ROS won't hit the tight areas. This 7x10" tray has 3 areas that had to be hand sanded, the top left and top right corners and the bottom curve (top is where handle is).

255517

Keith Outten
02-26-2013, 9:34 PM
Paul,

Nice job on the monument signs.

I usually don't have problems sanding or polishing the darker Corian colors, I prefer not to have to polish ADA signs due to the large number of them in the average job. Periodically I do make custom Corian signs and use dark colors and I use a similar procedure that you use. Ken Dolph has recently told me that the frosting from edge routing dark colors can be eliminated or reduced dramatically by adjusting the feed speed and router bit style. Since I manually route ADA sign edges the feed speed adjustment won't be very scientific and the bit I normally use for ADA signs is a classic roman ogee. Sanding a roman ogee profile is tough because of the detail.

I would like to offer dark color Corian for ADA door signs if I could find a means of producing a decent roman ogee profile inexpensively. Flat surfaces are sanded with 80 grit because they are required to have a matt finish and 80 grit paper on an ROS works great. Custom signs or large signs are sanded much like you do although I find myself using Trizac disks with water to polish large surfaces. I would like to try micro mesh pads with water if I can find them to fit my ROS.

I'm working on a solid black Corian directory now, its the most difficult color to polish the nooks and crannies in the window cutouts :(
.

Paul Phillips
02-27-2013, 2:59 PM
Rich, I can see how that would be a challenge to sand, you might give the steel wool a try and see if that helps get into those hard to reach areas.

Keith, I understand now what you mean, for the ogee edges the lighter colors would definitely be easier to work with. I had a job a while back that called for the Nocturn/black to be a high polish finish and that's when I discovered the 3m trizact, works great, the job came out beautiful but you're right, it's a lot more work, not to many customers willing to pay the extra for labor now days. Good luck on the directory, maybe you can show us some pictures when it's done.
For anyone who does a lot of RO sanding though, I would highly recommend the professional grade Dynabrades, I have both the industrial grade and the automotive grade, I prefer the automotive one because it's lighter weight, once you try one you'll see the difference, anything less is feels like junk to me, vibration from a lesser one numbs my hands after a few hours, It's like the difference between the old '68 GMC truck I used to have and the Mercedes 300E I had, the truck will get you there but nearly beat you to death, the Mercedes is so smooth and comfortable that you can hardly tell when you're doing 120mph! ;)

http://www.dynabrade.com/dyn10/content.php?page=catalog

Paul