Why CorelDraw, why not Illustrator?

[Tom Schulze]

So , I have a question. Why is it CorelDraw seems to be preferred over Illustrator for creating files for use on the laser engravers. I haven't gotten my engraver yet, but have been working with a demo version of the LaserWork software. It doesn't even have the ability to import the cdr file directly, which seems to suggest that the plugin for coreldraw exports in another format to get it to the Laserwork software. Maybe AI? Anyway, why not just work in Illustrator to begin with?

Please enlighten me as I am new to CorelDraw and only slightly skilled at Illustrator. But my wife is very skilled with Illustrator and would very much prefer to keep working in that unless there are compelling reasons to move to CorelDraw.

Thanks everyone.

Tom

[Rodne Gold]

Cos Corel was/is free/cheap and hardly copy protected whereas AI was not. Nowdays it's the de facto standard. Like windows isn't the best OS , but it's the standard. Laserworks exports the graphic as an AI ver 8 file , won't take a higher version. You can work in AI if you find it easier - nothing says you MUST work in Corel. We like Corel cos the files also can be used on our CnC router , our Isel cnc engravers , our digital printer and of course , our lasers.

[Ernie Balch]

You forgot to mention that Corel is superior in every way to AI.

[George Carlson]

Corel has always been buggier the AI, but it is so much more versatile and easy to use. Just like Photoshop is much better than Photo-Paint.

[Stephanie Koenig]

Hello Tom,
We use Illustrator here. Most of my clients have a design background and as such tend to be loyal to Adobe products. One other reason we went with Illustrator is that so many more people are familiar with it than Corel Draw. We teach members how to use the lasers and rent the lasers out at an hourly rate, so getting the members up and running quickly is important. We do keep a license of Corel Draw on the computers hooked up to our lasers, very rarely I need to print something over form Corel as opposed to Illustrator. Personally, I'm pretty happy with Illustrator, I feel like I have to click 5 times more often in Corel Draw to do something that I can do with a keyboard short cut in Illustrator. We can output to our other cnc stuff from Illustrator too, so Corel doesn't have an advantage there for us.

[Martin Boekers]

As Rodne say in early days Corel was free. It came with my Mac In 1998.
Most shops still use Corel as the Package is pretty good for under $300 on
sale and Adobe package is triple that if not more. If you use forums most
all post here in Corel files. So if you need help it's easy to get it. Not sure
if AI will open or import Corel, but I know X5 will open AI directly. I have AI
rarely use it anymore for lasering. I do prefer Photo Shop over Photo Paint,
but later versions of Corel make it easy to edit or trace right from the Corel
Draw file. Corel is easy on use on two computers. Adobe moniters your
computers and know exactly how and where their products are being used.
If you sell a computer or upgrade with an Adobe product on it you have to
contact them for process and permission to instal on a new computer.
I recently went through this with a few new computers. If your laser will run
AI and your more comfortable with it then by all means use it.
the process

[Scott Shepherd]

Most shops still use Corel as the Package is pretty good for under $300 on
sale and Adobe package is triple that if not more.

I know you're talking about the entire Adobe Suite, but as a reference, CorelDraw, full version is $499 and Illustrator is $599. Upgrading CorelDraw is $199, Upgrading Illustrator is $199.

I don't think you can compare the price of Adobe Creative Suite to the Corel package because the Creative Suite is far more than Illustrator and Photoshop.

I've heard over and over from a lot of people how out of control Adobe is with their pricing, but when you actually look at the details, it's very close, especially once you own it, in which it becomes the exact same price.

Right now, I can upgrade my entire Adobe suite for $275. That's a bargain if you ask me.

[Doug Griffith]

I've been using Illustrator since it came out and use it for all my laser work. I admit the learning curve is steep but once you know it, there isn't much it can't do.

Rodne hit it on the head - CHEAP became the de facto standard.

Rodne, I work with numerous CAD/CAM programs and many support direct AI import. I've never used one that imports CDR. Don't you first have to export as EPS?

[Martin Boekers]

Scott, Corel has sales almost continiously, so no one should ever have to buy at list. Adobe products rarely
go on sale. I have been upgrading Corel from 3, I am not sure if I can upgrade my PS anymore I have
upgraded that from 5 to CS3 through the years, I believe you have to have a full version of CS3 now to upgrade.
Last fall, I think, I posted Corel had an upgrade to X5 for $128. I upgraded to X5 a year or so ago, for $250
I got X5, Painter, a Walcom Intous 4 tablet, Win Zip and I believe Photo Pro came with that also. That was a deal.
Will AI work fine, yes it will. Corel and Windows are still a standard in this industry just as Adobe and Mac are standards
in photographic and design industries.

If you buy PS and AI alone you are talking $1300 for full versions together.

Bottom line is use what you have and are comfortable with, when that no longer works then it's time to switch. :)
I have many pieces of software in my "tool chest" These are my main tools. Just as a mechanic may have more than one
screwdriver, sometimes a second screwdriver makes the job go quicker and easier. :)

[Scott Shepherd]

I understand your point Marty. I just hear from sign people all the time about how crazy expensive Illustrator is compared to corel, and honestly, that's not the case. It's $100 more, period (list prices, not sale prices). Some people go on and on and on about how expensive it is and I can't help but always think "You won't invest $100 more a year in your business?". Really? $100 a year one time? If you're using it for laser engraving, I think you're fine with Corel.

However, prior to X5 and X6, the color management in Corel was horrible. So people that send items to print were at a disadvantage. I know they worked on the color engine a lot in these last 2 upgrades.

I don't care which one people use, because I don't get paid by either company and it's not my business interest at stake here, but you have to admit the argument against Illustrator is normally fought by people that have never used it, except for 2,3,4,5 versions ago, and they compare that to X6 now. If you want to compare them, compare them from the latest version on both and really give both a test drive.

It's like people saying that Mac's are horrible. When you question them, they say they used one 8 years ago and didn't like it, then they go on to compare their user experience from 8 years ago to Windows 7 now.

You can print to your laser from Powerpoint or Word if you like. The laser doesn't care.

[Doug Griffith]

Good points Scott.

I believe that if you are an avid Photoshop user, Illustrator plays well with it. Probably better than Coreldraw You can copy and paste between the 2 and retain vectors or rasterize them. Also the interface between the 2 is similar.

[Martin Boekers]

Scott the one thing that amazes me is how some always don't want to spend
a fair price for software. Next to the laser this ought to be your best investment,
heck every job you do requires it! If you figure the cost over a few years it's
less than a $1 a day. I have both Adobe and Corel as there are things I like
and dislike about each. Color Management is a career in itself. I worked at a display
graphics house for 16+ years there they had 2 folks that controlled color management.
There were over 40 workstations, photo, laser solvent and ink jets. Color Management
was critical, just on lighting the workstations. So yes you are right on that!
I remember when we got one of the first Sci-Tex work stations (showing my age aren't I :) )
I remember looking in awe as they changed the color of a car for an ad. So simple now
but a feat back then.

I whait for the day when Adobe offers timed use for there software as an option, then you have
a choice it use newest version on timed structure. Then I could work with it at home as
my home is CS and cant justify the cost for home use upgrade. (may not be possible on this version)

Doug may be able to verify that some Cad Software requires a purchase and a yearly use fee.

I tell folks all the time go for the best and newest software you can afford it will save you in the long run.

[Rodne Gold]

One point is that currently Corel is a swiss army knife in terms of export import , it can read and output just about any file format. Not always perfectly......
I grew up with Acad and we have a lot of earlier artwork in dwg format , so I like to use it as well , especially for complex constructed part type vector cuts.

[Tom Schulze]

Thank you all for your perspectives. It helps to know that it is mostly personal preference and that there is nothing significant to CorelDraw to force its use.

Thanks.

Tom

[Gary Hair]

Thank you all for your perspectives. It helps to know that it is mostly personal preference and that there is nothing significant to CorelDraw to force its use.

Thanks.

Tom

Just my .02 - If you are starting from scratch, no knowledge of either program, I believe that Corel might be a bit easier to learn. If you are only lasering, no dye sublimation, color printing, etc., then Corel may be a better way to go. If, however, you already know Illustrator then there is no reason to learn Corel - and vice versa.

Gary

[Lee DeRaud]

Rodne, I work with numerous CAD/CAM programs and many support direct AI import. I've never used one that imports CDR. Don't you first have to export as EPS?My current workflow is: Corel->export as DXF->Vectric Cut2D (or sometimes CAMBAM)...I would love to see a better option.
DragonCNC shows promise, on paper at least, but it's nowhere near ready for prime-time.

Just for grins, which ones import AI directly?

[Lee DeRaud]

I believe that if you are an avid Photoshop user, Illustrator plays well with it. Probably better than Coreldraw You can copy and paste between the 2 and retain vectors or rasterize them.I've been told that, for marquetry, AI's trace/color-reduction is a lot cleaner. Do you have a take on that?

(This thread is going to cost me money, I just know it...)

[Doug Griffith]

Just for grins, which ones import AI directly?

Off the top of my head: Solidworks, Rhino, Ashlar Cobalt, Turbocad, LCAM... Plus if I remember correctly, Cut2D does as well.

[Doug Griffith]

I've been told that, for marquetry, AI's trace/color-reduction is a lot cleaner. Do you have a take on that?

(This thread is going to cost me money, I just know it...)

In all honesty, I never use any auto trace features in AI. If I were to do it, I would first manipulate the bitmap in PS by converting to grayscale and adjusting the levels visually. I might choose only a channel or 2 to work with.

[Lee DeRaud]

Off the top of my head: Solidworks, Rhino, Ashlar Cobalt, Turbocad, LCAM... Plus if I remember correctly, Cut2D does as well.(slaps forehead) Yup, so it does...never had a good reason to notice, I guess.

[Dee Gallo]

Having used both programs and loving neither, my 2 cents is that if you already know Illustrator, CorelDraw should be very easy to master. Now that I have used CD for many years, it is a workhorse for the laser work I do. I doubt I would really need the features I used to love in programs like FreeHand. It is a valuable asset to be able to print directly to my laser without having to go through conversions, no matter how easy it might be.

~ dee

[Doug Griffith]

It is a valuable asset to be able to print directly to my laser without having to go through conversions, no matter how easy it might be.

I too have an Epilog Mini and print directly from Illustrator without going through any conversions. Doesn't get any easier than that. Could be an operating system or version issue.

[Dee Gallo]

I too have an Epilog Mini and print directly from Illustrator without going through any conversions. Doesn't get any easier than that. Could be an operating system or version issue.

So in that case, there is no reason to choose one over the other except your personal preference. Good! I was told (erroneously obviously) that Epilog REQUIRED CorelDraw to use the driver.

Thanks for clearing that up, Doug!

[john banks]

We got X5 (which includes commercial use and the VBA the home version lacked) in return for taking a free trial of Netflix. Cancelled Netflix with no penalty as the quality of video down our rural ADSL (5Mbps) was, whilst watchable, not ideal, so we stick with Blu-rays by post from our existing provider.

Setting up a new business, every penny saved helps!

[john banks]

Another influence was performance. We had a trial of CS5 and it felt bloated in terms of size and performance/load times and the amount of "bloat" it installed all over the place. This was on a Core i7 with 4GB RAM and a 7200 RPM HDD. After uninstalling the trial it broke a pdf association which caused browsers to crash when loading pdfs.

The other view would be that the apparent bloat was hiding a lot of power I didn't recognise due to unfamiliarity, I wouldn't argue any of the points above too seriously, was just an arguably over-brief impression.

[Dan Ashlin]

You forgot to mention that Corel is superior in every way to AI.

I really hope that's sarcasm. Corel is fine and all, but Illustrator is far superior when it comes to its graphic capabilities.

[Martin Boekers]

I really hope that's sarcasm. Corel is fine and all, but Illustrator is far superior when it comes to its graphic capabilities.

Ford or Chevy.......

[Ernie Balch]

Such a reaction... they are both good tools ..... use what you want.

Corel is dirt cheap, works fine, is user friendly and it dominates the sign business, I have been buying upgrades since version 3. I recently bought X4 suite for $39 on amazon because it works with my laser driver.

Actually for design I use the best tool for the task. I use a mix of PS 6, illustrator10, Corel, Vectric Aspire, SignLab and Inkscape. I also have a mix of Apple, linux and Microsoft operating systems in use.

[Rodne Gold]

Ernie , some of those packages are pretty expensive , I use signlab , profilelab and artcam and as far as I remember , none of those were cheap, maybe 10x Corels price?

[Jiten Patel]

Sounds like the old Mac vs PC argument! No one will ever win - personal preference at the end of the day. I myself am an Illustrator man. Have Corel too, but we don't get on well and it leads to arguments and broken mice (not living ones for all you animal loves out there!).

[David Fairfield]

I use Adobe, its the industry standard for graphic artists. I did use Corel because the old Epilog driver didn't like Adobe, but the new Epilog driver plays real nice with Adobe. I feel the same way about Corel as Jit does, so I use Adobe exclusively now. I find it a joy to use. I got over the learning curve easily by taking a community college class, which was a lot of fun, and money well invested.

I did notice with Corel there were some features that seemed geared towards sign and label making, and there are more options and flexibility with Illustrator, so in my opinion, Corel is more utilitarian and Adobe is more artsy.

Also, I use a PC, not a Mac. Adobe runs perfectly on the PC.

Dave

[Richard Rumancik]

Hey David - I thought that the Mac was the standard for graphic artists . . . .

I won't debate the merits of Illustrator vs. CorelDraw - but I'll bet that many people here use less than 20% of the functionality of CorelDraw in their laser work. So having a more capable program won't really buy them much.

For work that includes signs, sublimation, color images, etc then some of the "artsy" graphic capabilities may be useful. But for basic laser work CorelDraw is probably adequate for most people, and users generally pick up the 20% they need on their own.

[David Fairfield]

Richard, your 20% observation is good. I use Adobe for much more than lasering so the excess capacity and flexibility of Illustrator over Corel works for me. Its also good to be on the same software as other graphics professionals, so I can swap files, get help, compare notes etc. A signmaker might be better off with Corel. But either program works great with an Epilog; I don't know about other machines.

Yes, the Mac is standard for artsy types. Besides enjoying bucking the trend :) I've owned and used both Macs and PCs and have never found anything special about the Mac to justify the higher price tag.

Dave

[Doug Griffith]

One plus for Illustrator is that fact that it is highly scriptable in a few languages including good old javascript (Extendscript). So if you have web programming skills, you're one step up in picking up scripting for illustrator.

The gold method script I wrote a while back was in Javascript and a recent post about single line fonts has me writing another script. One that converts supposed single line text to outlines, breaks all nodes, removes all overlapping lines, and then connects the nodes back together as open paths. Since I have a lot of experence writing Javascript, I'm not hesitant to take on a project like this. Since CorleScript is it's own animal, I'd be less likely to take the time to learn it.

I've also written a script that calculates the time it takes to vector cut a path. Once I build an interface that allows custom speed settings to be saved I'll make it public. Once again, programmed in Javascript.

Adobe also includes a pretty good IDE for Extendscript with their software. It's buried in the utilities.

[Jim Underwood]

You guys complaining about paying for software oughta see what you pay for 3D software like ArtCAM or cabinet design software like CabnetWare or Cabinet Vision.

It's $10,000 just for one seat. Heck I pay $1800 a year just for SUPPORT.

Just another perspective...

[Doug Griffith]

You guys complaining about paying for software oughta see what you pay for 3D software like ArtCAM or cabinet design software like CabnetWare or Cabinet Vision.

It's $10,000 just for one seat. Heck I pay $1800 a year just for SUPPORT.

Just another perspective...

Plus the learning curves can be off the chart.

I see you have a Komo. We just picked up an Innova 508 and I'm the guy to run it. How do you like it? I might have to pick your brain some day.

[Lee DeRaud]

Since CorelScript is it's own animal, I'd be less likely to take the time to learn it.It's vanilla VBA and has been for several versions now: a full object model interface and IDE is built in (except for the student version). If you've worked with VBA in Excel or Word, the learning curve is dead flat. If VBA isn't your main thing, I'm pretty sure there's a mechanism for passing objects between VBA and C++, Java, whatever.

[Doug Griffith]

Well my post sure points out that I work on a Mac! The only time I work with VBA is in Excel and I didn't make that association. All I ever write are formulas.

My comment about web programmers still holds true though.

[Jim Underwood]

I love the KOMO. Expensive though. Unfortunately I could never afford it at home... You can see some of the stuff I've done on the CNC forums.

[Jiten Patel]

Completely agree with David. I studied music and therefore had to use Macs. great machines, but again I see no difference with using a high-spec PC. The only thing a Mac does better is it hardly ever crashes - oh and they are very sexy machines! I have a G5 which is not used any more, and my new pc is far far quicker! PC and illustrator work like soul mates! Now all I have to do is trade in the mouse for an Intuos tablet - but not too sure about them as I have a cheaper tablet, but it's collecting dust at the moment!

[Craig Matheny]

I think a lot have forgotten that Corel originally was used mainly by sign shops and screen printers back in the days of spot color and simple art. It was easy to learn and very plan, Illustrator was a graphics side software and very complicated and expensive. Times have changes Corel has become more powerful Illustrator cheaper so it is now basically what you like I own both and very seldom open illustrator because I am not comfortable with it no other reason.

My2cents