old bandsaw questions

[Jeff Bartley]

I've lusted after a big bandsaw since the very first time I ran 6" stock through my little 14" Delta bandsaw. That little saw will cut, but the feed rate is soooo slow! Too fast and it just starts shaking, faster than that and you stall the motor.
So what to do about it? I have the opportunity to purchase an old saw so I'm starting to research old saws and now I have some questions.
Does anyone here have an American WW'ing B36?
With any old saw which guides work well and how common is it to replace old guides?
I'm leaving out any questions regarding phase converters and VFD's.....I think there's enough info through a search to answer those questions.
I'm really torn.....I barely have the space for a saw of this size but I do have 9' ceilings.
TIA! Jeff

[Ira Matheny]

Jeff,
I do not have the same brand, but would like to share my experiences in breathing life into an American-Yates 36, ca 1948.

First, I determined the existing guides assemblies were worn. Replaced with Carters. Second the tires were hard and dried out. Again, replaced with Carters. Third, the brush keeping the lower wheel clean, was worn out. Replaced with a brush found locally.

I disassembled a few portions of the saw and cleaned, polished, and lubricated.

New 1.25" B/S blade with 7/8" teeth spacing [The same blade as used on the WoodMiser LT-40]

VIOLA! I have the sweetest running BS in the country. Ran like a top and would cut thru very hard wood up to 16" [thickest I tried] until I hit a nail. Obvioulsy, I am now waiting for the replacement blades to arrive. this saw will cut up to about 21" thick. It has a 5 hp 240/3ph motor, direct drive.

My total expenditures for the tires and guides were about $1,500, but absolutely worth every penny. The one blade used probably cut 2,000 l/ft of 8" beams. Additionally, that blade also cut another 2,000 ln ft of boards and cants from logs up to 16". The saw was $100, used and abused and stored in an old leaky building.

[Van Huskey]

OK you are talking about a REALLY old bandsaw, closing in on 100 years old if not already! The first question is have wheel guards been built for it and if not do you have the time/ability to handle that. Maybe 1 in five BS from that era I see have been retrofitted with wheel guards/dust collection.

As for the guides Wright would be my first choice then Carter Zeyphr would be my second. I haven't seen enough of them in original shape to know what guides they came with but my guess is Baker guides which I am not a fan off. Replacing guides on even newer saws is pretty common but saws that came with guides that are still produced (Wright, Carter, Progress & Paddock for example) usually are just rebuilt since parts are available.

With a saw that old from a manufacturer that didn't stay around into the second half of the century one needs to be careful. Make sure everything that will be practically impossible to reproduce or replace is there and functioning. Tires aren't a problem to source and are relatively cheap ($100 for a pair or cheaper for a 36" saw). Make sure you work the power issue out and figure it into your overall cost.

In all honesty unless you are looking for a project IF the saw has not been updated you need to be very careful working out the costs before hand. In many cases very early saws like that cost more money (and IMHO aren't as good) than a solid ready to run saw from later in the century. Oliver, Yates, Northfield Tannewitz would be some of the names I would look for.

[Jeff Bartley]

Thanks for the info guys; I was hoping you'd lend an opinion Van. Other than the guides the other part of this saw that scares me is the possibility of a wooden upper wheel. According to OWWM this model had a wood laminate upper wheel. I also found out that it could have either babbits or ball-bearings. The ball-bearings were an up-charge. Hopefully I'll get some more pictures/info on this particular saw.....I'm not gonna be able to make a decision till I have more info.
Does anyone here actually own one of these?

[Van Huskey]

I have seen them with cast rims on the upper wheel AND I have actually seen some with wood LOWER wheel rims along with wooden uppers. I would consider yourself lucky if you found a ball bearing model...

If I were you I would take a hard look at what you would probably have in it when "all in" and compare that to what you could buy in the 1940's-1970's vintages. Not saying one of these early saws can't be good and economical but more often than not I have seen guys spend much more time and money than they planned getting the saw where they wanted it, then again it became a passion for many of them...

[Rick Fisher]

Its not uncommon to find older Centauro Bandsaws of say 80's vintage.. With a bit of TLC, they can become quite user friendly..

Not as cool as an old 36" US made saw, but smaller footprint..

[Robert Boyd]

Jeff, I have a Silver 36 with Carter Zefyr guides and I just added a Silver 26 with Wright Guides. Both guides are relatively similar and parts are readily available for them.

In my opinion the two most important areas of the saw are the table trunnion and the babbit bearings. For my saws the babbit is on the lower wheel.

With wooden wheels being realistic is not a problem if you have to replace it. The spokes should be metal so the pattern is already there.

3 phase motors are not a problem as long as you have 240v and the motor is 3hp. If you get up to 5 or 7hp the Vfd's get expensive.

If you have the room seriously think about buying it. If you get for a couple hundred you are doing really good because you will be putting in a couple hundred or three or four hundred after you buy it. The saw has been around 100 years and will be around 100 more.

Just my thoughts

[Jeff Duncan]

Don't have much to add about the saw except a general thought on bearings. If you find a saw/machine with Babbitt bearings that are in reasonably good shape, they may very well last the rest of your life with a little care and upkeep. If it has sealed ball bearings.....figure right around 15-20 years as the max lifespan....possibly much shorter depending on use. There tends to be a bias towards ball bearings as being superior....but that's not necessarily true. Comes down to the type of bearings and the use. Ball bearings are much cheaper and easier to replace....which is good as if they're sealed you'll need to.

good luck,
JeffD

[Jamie Buxton]

One other hidden cost is the cost of transportation. It usually takes a forklift to get it off the truck and into place in your shop.

One other thought.. You say your shop has a 9' ceiling. Do you also have a 9' door?

[Ryan Hellmer]

I would suggest you check out OWWM.org for hints on the older machines. Van is absolutely right. If you're looking for a turnkey machine, you'd be better off with newer. I have a real affection for these older machines and undertake their care and restoration as a labor of love with the prospect of a lifetime of use (I'm 29 and don't plan on re-rebuilding any of my machines in my lifetime).

Moving is a serious consideration. I'm not sure what the American would weigh, but I'm guessing it's close to or over a ton. My 26" Tannewitz GH weighs almost 3,000 lbs and I can say that moving a 3000 pound machine must be undertaken very carefully. A guy on the OWWM site made a cradle to tip his tannewitz over and slide it under a standard door. I'm in the process of doing the same thing. PM me if you want some more info on that front.

I think the American would be a great saw and certainly worth some "due diligence."

Ryan

[Kirk Poore]

There are 5 B-36's listed on VintageMachinery.org:
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=37&tab=4&sort=1&th=false&fl=

Four have original guards, at least 3 are direct drive. Solid bottom doors seem to be standard, upper guards varied between mesh and solid. If direct drive, it's unlikely that the lower wheel has babbitt--more likely would be bronze sleeve or ball bearings. Yates merged with American in 1925, so your prospective saw is before that. I think it's unlikely that you have wooden rims--this is probably a post 1900 saw, and wood rims were quite rare by that date.

One of the best features of a large saw is the big table. It will hold large pieces while you cut, and you have lots of length before you have to use a roller stand.

Kirk

[Jeff Bartley]

I'm still waiting on more info on the saw, it's too bad it's four hours away or I could just go see it for myself. @Jamie--good point about the door! I'd need to tip it to get it in the shop, I like the cradle idea, I'll be PM'ing you Ryan if I buy this saw! I keep telling myself I'd be crazy not to buy it!
Yesterday I spoke with a fella that has one of these saws. You gotta love woodworkers! Total stranger calls to simply ask about an old tool and the guy was super helpful.
Thanks again for the input!!

[Ryan Hellmer]

I'd be first in line to push you down the slope if I wasn't already at the bottom. Jump in, the water's fine. One thing I've found about the internet is that, despite what Dateline says, there are tons of friendly folks out there ready to give you a hand.

Ryan

[Van Huskey]

Before you leap really think about the door... tipping is not to be taken lightly. I have tipped several 700-1100# saws and they were no picnic. It can be done but plan to spend 10 x the time thinking about it than you will spend actually doing it! When you start dreaming about that portion of the move and it keeps coming out fine, then you know you are ready to do it. :D

[David Kumm]

The old 30" saws are way easier to deal with in a smaller sized or height shop. They fit under a 7.5 ft door and have a smaller footprint. As low as saws are right now you can actually get one fairly cheap. Dave

[Jim Matthews]

I made the same sort of calculus, looking at a 36" Crescent at a local boat builder's lot.

The best bid for moving it 30 miles was $475. It was so large (not direct drive) that I could only fit it in one space in the garage.
I contemplated moving it with a homebuilt dolly, but they are practically timberframe construction. I bought a MM20 with a mobility kit, instead.231986

[Jeff Bartley]

Jim, that pic is so cool! I've been trying to dream up something like this. Do you know who this is in the pic? I wonder how much this tannewitz weighs??
I wish I had an update but I'm still waiting on more info on the saw. Not a good sign! I have found a place to store it though should I deem it too big for my current shop but if I did that I'd have to drive to use it. I'll keep ya all posted!

[Jeff Heath]

That timberframe bandsaw rig was made by a fellow OWWM member. He built it to roll the saw over, and then load it with forklift. Very awesome workaround for the problem of getting a tall bandsaw through a 7' or 8' door.

Jeff Smith is his name, IIRC.

Jeff