Western Saw handles

[Mike Holbrook]

I keep looking for saws, taking David Weaver's advice I have been following auctions for months now looking for that good deal on a great saw that is in a notch lower condition than what collectors are after, another words a "great user".

I have a couple questions about specific handles specifically the Thumb hole saws and the #12 handles. I believe the thumb hole is designed that way so that the saw is easier to work with two hands. I am just not sure exactly what the proper grip is. I have heard that such saws are more correctly used in a more up and down position with the double hand grip imparting greater control and speed in cuts?

I know very little about why the 12, 112, D-12 & D-112 have the distinctive, larger hand hole? Maybe this was just to make the saw distinctive or maybe there is a distinctive way to grip this handle with two hands?

[David Weaver]

I don't know what the theory is, but I know in a long rip where you're going to plane to a finish, being able to add a second hand when your shoulder starts to feel like lactic acid buildup is a nice way to keep ripping.

The bigger handles on some of the later saws may have been yielding to people who are wearing gloves (outside - how many 12s were designed for outside work, though, I don't know) as well as giving a little extra room to get a second hand in the action without having to make a special handle.

As far as the D8 style grip, standing straight over the work and getting perfect use of the thumbhole, I think I always stand a little more to the side with it and make the whole use of the saw a bit more of a lateral move in a long rip. Just put your thumb in it and think of how you use a right-handed plane - same idea. If you stand lateral to it a little bit, you can get right over it from time to time in a long rip and check to make sure it's still vertical. If your rip is relatively close to a sawbench or bench that has something you can eyeball to check square/vertical based on how the saw is oriented, that makes things a little easier.

[Joe Bailey]

I am just not sure exactly what the proper grip is.

The proper grip for the D-8 (right-handed users only) consists of grasping the handgrip with the three lower fingers of the right hand, with the index finger extended along the side of the handle. The thumb of the left hand is inserted through the thumbhole and the fingers of the left hand are wrapped over the top of the handle. I believe there is a least one piece of Disston literature where this configuration is illustrated.
My understanding is that the larger handles - in the models you reference - have adequate space above the hand to allow the same grip outlined above. In these models, the thumbhole has been incorporated into the opening.

[Mike Holbrook]

I have one thumb hole saw that I got dirt cheap. I believe the grip Dave & Joe mention is close to what I was trying out ripping a 1 x 4 the other day. I do not have a #12 so I have not had the opportunity to try that handle. Even with no experience it felt like I was able to use my whole body and legs sawing that way, more like sawing with a bow saw. The instructior at the sharpening class I took at Highland Hardware mentioned how he learned to saw double handed. He said an elderly Welsh gentleman stopped him in the middle of a class and asked him if he was crazy using a one handed grip on a large western saw to make a large rip. I think he may have used a little stronger language than just calling him crazy, apparently since that little interruptions my instructor has been careful to explain the value of the two handed rip in all his classes. I think my instructor was using a more standard "cover top" grip saw.

So far I have found my biggest issue to be holding the boards I am trying to saw securely, especially for rips. I have plans to make saw benches. I have a nice Ash 8/4 board that I bought for the purpose. I even found a saw bench design with a clear saw path in the center for the length of the bench. Maybe when the missing part for my new band saw shows up and my leg heals up a little from taking a spill into uncovered 2 x 10 joists......

[Mike Allen1010]

Hello Mike,

I think Joe and David are right on in their description of the proper grip for the Thumb-Hole rip saws and the benefits of using two hands. I do a lot of ripping by hand (since the crappy shop built rip fence I made for my 14" band saw only allows 9" of rip capacity) and using two hands makes a huge difference in longer rips.

You are absolutely right having a solid saw bench is also very helpful. In Jim Tolpin's excellent book "The New Traditional Woodworker", on page 164 he has design and construction drawings for a pair of saw benchesthat I built and were very helpful for me.

I have limited floor space and after going through a couple versions of saw benches I'm currently using a single saw bench that I built out of Doug Fir from the local BORG. I like this bench because it is heavy enough that the work remains still, even when I cut off handed. The sliding stop and bench looks are also really helpful for me for crosscutting and securing the work to the bench.


All the best, Mike

[Jim Koepke]

I have plans to make saw benches. I have a nice Ash 8/4 board that I bought for the purpose.

Why ash? If it was the low cost wood in your area it is understandable.

My saw benches are made out of pieces of scrap found in the Home Depot culls bin. I bought a slightly warped piece of 2X12 last week for $0.51. A few swipes with a plane and some of the cheap (also $0.51) 2x4s will make a great saw bench for very little cost.

jtk

[Joe Bailey]

nice saw bench, Mike!

[steven c newman]

231551231552My two D-8s. Thumbhole 5-1/2 ppi rip, and a regular handled 11 ppi crosscut.

[Mike Holbrook]

I have this new Laguna band saw. I want a little practice with it before I begin sawing up the European Beech I bought to make my new work bench top with. I bought a piece of Hickory and a piece of Ash to make a couple simple projects with. I will probably make the bench base out of the wood I like the best.

I like Jim Tolpin's saw bench plan too. I even bought the book. Nice one Mike.

I am thinking about building the one below though, both because I like the bench and because it will give me some practice with joinery I want to learn....

Here is the saw bench I am liking:
231590

[daniel lane]

The proper grip for the D-8 (right-handed users only) consists of grasping the handgrip with the three lower fingers of the right hand, with the index finger extended along the side of the handle. The thumb of the left hand is inserted through the thumbhole and the fingers of the left hand are wrapped over the top of the handle. I believe there is a least one piece of Disston literature where this configuration is illustrated.

Just a note from a token lefty, this works the other way around with minimal issues (the thumb hole isn't symmetrical across the handle, but it's close enough not to hurt).


daniel

[Mark Dorman]

Nice design there Mike. nothing in the way of your down stroke.




Here is the saw bench I am liking:
231590

[Mike Holbrook]

I should say that the saw bench above is not my design. I had a problem finding the original post I copied the picture from. I originally found the picture on a site different than the one the designer posted it on.... Credit goes to Brian in a post on Lumberjocks. I would post a link but I am afraid that might not be within the rules. The post can be easily found searching Lumberjocks for saw bench though. Brian liked Schwarz and Herman's designs but he wanted something better for ripping long boards. Anyway I think it is a great design too and a great practice project for my work bench as well. Brian explains:


Some of the Saw Bench designs I found on the web had a slottted top but all had cross members (for rigidity) that you had to work around when making rip cuts. With this design they’re not in the way. The draw-bored mortice and tenon joints at the base made it surprisingly rigid.

Brian made a couple posts some months after making the original projects post. He remarked that he had added some wood under his saw bench to allow him to use holdfasts. He also suggested making the two sections of the bench different widths 1/3rd or 2/3rd split. He commented that the bench was suppose to be a prototype in cheap wood but it turned out so solid he never bothered to remake it in hardwood. He has found the braw-bored joints to remain as tight as the day he made them.

[Mike Holbrook]

I was just watching Ron Herman's video on using and tuning hand saws. The bench Ron uses is very similar to the one Brian made but without the split. Ron apparently uses his saw bench for all sorts of work in places he does not have a workbench. Ron drilled holes, for holdfasts, in the end as well as top of his bench. Ron uses the lip on the leg supports as work support too.

I am thinking I will add a thicker strip of wood to the inside of one side of the split top. The thicker wood will provide a place for holdfasts and make one side wider than the other. I may add a height adjustable fence to one side as well.

I was just trying to figure out how to change or add to the title of this post since the discussion is moving toward a more general sawing topic. It does not look like I can change or add to the title this far into the topic so I will create a different more extensive post on this whole topic of hand saws and benches....