Spiral heads

[Dave Sims]

Taking advice and breaking down my previous thread into more specific questions.


I am in the market for a new planer and probably a jointer. Like that spiral heads are quieter than straight knives and have less tear out. One the top of my priority list is ease of cutter blade install. When changing a nicked or dull spiral head cutter is there any set up required? Is it as simple as loosen screw, remove square cutter, insert new square cutter and tighten screw?

[Jerrimy Snook]

It is that simple. Make sure the seat is clean and torque the screw properly to prevent cutter damage and get back to smoothing boards.

[Dave Sims]

That is exactly what I wanted to hear. thank you

[glenn bradley]

Agreed. Some have reported problems but, with the correct inserts and procedure it is quick and easy.

[Paul McGaha]

Dave,

Out of curiosity, Which machines are you looking at?

My planer and jointer are both Powermatic, Must say though if I was looking to buy both machines at the same time Grizzly would probably be my first look. Lot of bang for the buck. Many happy Grizzly tool owners here on the creek.

And then of course there's something like the Hammer A3-31 Jointer/Planer.

PHM

[Dave Sims]

I agree that the grizzly seem to offer incredible value. I am about 4 hrs from the PA facility. G453px for the planer and g490x for the jointer.

[Van Huskey]

I would second Paul's idea of looking at the Hammer combo, with or without a spiral head (it uses self set knives so no setup).

[Peter Quinn]

I would reiterate, when changing an insert knife everything must be.CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN. Blow the set screw out with compressed air before removing, blow out the seat, blow out the individual cutter you will be rotating or replacing, physically remove any trace of dust as neccessary, and torque according to tthe manufacturers spec using a torque screwdriver with the correct tip. I have seen and heard of damage done to insert heads when the user was a bit cavalier about.cleanliness. Best case you get little ridges in tthe work, like scallops that are more pronounced than those visible with the factory set up, caused by a bit of dirt lifting the knives up a few thousands. Worst case you get a stripped screw stuck in the head. Avoid this, work clean, no problems.

[Jon McElwain]

Remember also that the square cutters have four cutting edges. If one edge gets a nick, you can simply rotate the cutter 90 degrees and re-install. I have not noticed any cutter depth discrepancies when a single cutter is changed out. That was one of my concerns prior to purchasing a head with square cutters.

Note that the Grizzly cutters are mounted square to the planner head, while some others like Powermatic and Laguna mount them at a slight angle which gives the cutter a shearing action. I have not compared the two side by side, but in theory, the shearing action should produce a smoother cut. As far as I know, felder/hammer only come with 3 knife cutter heads.

[David Kumm]

Felder has just developed their own spiral. They felt the Byrd used too much HP and have published some pretty surprising data showing how much less power is necessary with their head. Can't vouch for the accuracy but it is the first I've heard of concern over HP requirements for the Byrd. Dave

[Will Blick]

Big decision, so the more input the better..... not trying to beat a dead horse, good advise above...

Fully agreed on the sheer cut vs. straight cut, a better design. Turning the cutter heads are a breeze, but time consuming, as there is so many of them on a long head...., but these things last forever, amazing advancements in carbide metals. I will be interested to see what Felder has developed... since most jointers or planers are sized for straight blades, the square heads, specially spiral or sheared cutting type surely put less load on the motor, so prob. not a huge issue, but its possible their technology assures a smoother surface?

If space is a concern, these combo machines have come a long way.... the one disadvantage of most combos are the short beds for jointing. I personally prefer long beds, as a board can only be truly flat to the distance equal to the the bed length (one side).... prob. a tad more, maybe 1.3x. So if you flatten long boards, this is something you may want to consider, i.e. combo vs. separate machines. If you don't use long boards, this sure makes a combo machine attractive as these machines always consume more floor space than their footprint size.

[David Kumm]

Actually Felder's argument was that the Byrd would require more power than their single phase motor could produce- at their depth of cut. When i changed from a straight knife to the Byrd I felt it took a little more power but it was a pretty subjective opinion.

Dave

[James White]

It definitely takes more power to run the spiral cutter heads. The theory is that there is always cutters in contact with the wood vs intermittent contact of a traditional head. Max depth of cut is reduced.

James

[Rod Sheridan]

The Felder spiral cutter is impressive, and it's MAN rated so suitable for jointers. (Obviously since their most common models are jointer/planers).

It's quiet also................Regards, Rod.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I just spent a good portion of the last 2 days using my Grizzly spiral head jointer in the process of milling some trim for an entertainment center I'm building. Based on my experience, I have some doubt most people would find a noticable difference between a "shear" cut and a "straight" cut. Smooth is smooth.

[Myk Rian]

I have some doubt most people would find a noticable difference between a "shear" cut and a "straight" cut. Smooth is smooth.
Try a test with birds eye.

[Dave Sims]

A longer bed is important. I looked into the hammer and I just dont think it is for me. thanks for the recommendation though, it looks like a quality machine and the sale price does put it within my reach.

[Will Blick]

Dave, have you found any combo machines with long beds and spiral cutters?

[Rod Sheridan]

A longer bed is important. I looked into the hammer and I just dont think it is for me. thanks for the recommendation though, it looks like a quality machine and the sale price does put it within my reach.

Dave although it is important, I've spoken to many combo owners and none have had any issue with the shorter beds.

It may be be more of a theoretical issue that only affects extremely long objects.....................Regards, Rod.

[Rick Fisher]

Funny.. I have a Griggio PF-310 Jointer with a Tersa Head and a General International 20" Planer with a Helical head.

If I where in a factory setting.. The tersa would be tempting.. You can change the cutting edge in about a minute, and if you get a nick, you slide the knives back and forth so the nick doesn't line up anymore. Again.. in under a minute.

The Helical head is far superior for figured woods. I have milled quilted maple and the Tersa on the jointer is really rough on that level of figure. The big bonus of helical heads is sound.. The downside is nicks and damaged cutters. When you nick a helical cutter head knife, its much slower to repair than the Tersa..

[Rick Fisher]

A longer bed is important. I looked into the hammer and I just dont think it is for me. thanks for the recommendation though, it looks like a quality machine and the sale price does put it within my reach.

That was my reason for not getting a Felder Jointer.. The bed length made no sense on such a wide jointer.. I am glad now that I did .. its not very often that I need he long beds but when I do, its a bonus... Have to say however that I would rather have a 12" or 16" wide short bed jointer than a long bed 8" jointer.. The width gets used a bunch by me..

[Dave Sims]

I do get some nice wide boards from a local farmer, but they are usually twisted or cupped to the point that I have to rip them into narrow boards to get a descent thickness.

I really like ease of changing straight knives on the hammer. Is there a jet jointer with the same feature? I thought I saw one once.

[David Kumm]

The Esta disposablade system is what Felder and others use. The knives give a great finish- especially in the smaller sizes. When I think I would like a Byrd in my small jointer I put in a fresh set of Esta and am happy with the result. Dave

[Jim Stewart]

I have a Grizzly GO490 that I installed a Byrd head on. I also have a Powermatic 20" planer with a Byrd Shelix head. The cutters run quite but I still where ear protection. My dust system is not real quite. The cut I get from both of these units is glassy smooth. I thought I would add my two cents because today, I had my first problem. I caught the end of a board that i was jointing. I thought all was OK but when I jointed the next board I got two groves in the board. I emailed Byrd and they said I probably jammed some dust under a cutter. They told me to measure out from the board edge to the groves and then transfer that measurement from the fence to the cutter, rotating the cutter till the edge of a cutter matched the board groove distance. The heads come with a torx driver and 1/4" screw driver. The torque spec is 50 Inch-pounds. The guy told me that would be about the torque I could apply by hand with the screwdriver. He told me to clean the base of the cutter and clean the head seat for that cutter. When reinstalling hold the cutter with pressure to the front of the machine and let the srcrew pull the cutter in place. Worked like a charm. No cutters damaged. Back to glass smooth!

[Gary Herrmann]

Felder has just developed their own spiral. They felt the Byrd used too much HP and have published some pretty surprising data showing how much less power is necessary with their head. Can't vouch for the accuracy but it is the first I've heard of concern over HP requirements for the Byrd. Dave

I've got a General 480 with a Byrd head. General also makes their own spiral heads. HP for a straight knife head is 1.5. For the spiral head it's 2.0. If you think about it, the hp requirement makes sense. More metal in the wood.

[Van Huskey]

RE short beds on combo machines, when you move up the ladder to the higher end they indeed do have longer beds. But bed length is really a non-issue since you can add extensions to them, with the longer extensions I think the A3 31 would have about a 10' bed. For the Hammer machines you can add them to the planer outfeed as well, if you have two of the narrow/short extensions thay can both be stored on the planer outfeed and they don't stick out past the jointer infeed table, very slick.

[Rod Sheridan]

RE short beds on combo machines, when you move up the ladder to the higher end they indeed do have longer beds. But bed length is really a non-issue since you can add extensions to them, with the longer extensions I think the A3 31 would have about a 10' bed. For the Hammer machines you can add them to the planer outfeed as well, if you have two of the narrow/short extensions thay can both be stored on the planer outfeed and they don't stick out past the jointer infeed table, very slick.

It certainly is slick, I love mine. And if you want you can now buy it with the Felder carbide spiral head which looks like it would be MAN rated for improved safety...............Rod.

[Ron Natalie]

I got the Jet JJP-12HH. It came with a funny aluminum piece I couldn't figure out. Fortunately fellow boardie Bas was able to explain it was a tool for setting the traditional steel knives. He says he keeps it as a souvenir that he never has to sharpen/set planer knives again.

[glenn bradley]

I would reiterate, when changing an insert knife everything must be.CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN. Blow the set screw out with compressed air before removing, blow out the seat, blow out the individual cutter you will be rotating or replacing, physically remove any trace of dust as neccessary, and torque according to tthe manufacturers spec using a torque screwdriver with the correct tip. I have seen and heard of damage done to insert heads when the user was a bit cavalier about.cleanliness. Best case you get little ridges in tthe work, like scallops that are more pronounced than those visible with the factory set up, caused by a bit of dirt lifting the knives up a few thousands. Worst case you get a stripped screw stuck in the head. Avoid this, work clean, no problems.

Good reminder Peter. In short; follow the directions.

[Peter Froh]

I got the Jet JJP-12HH. It came with a funny aluminum piece I couldn't figure out. Fortunately fellow boardie Bas was able to explain it was a tool for setting the traditional steel knives. He says he keeps it as a souvenir that he never has to sharpen/set planer knives again.
Hi Ron,
How do you like your Jet JJP? I am thinking of getting one someday.

[Ron Natalie]

I like it a lot. Admittedly, I've not done much with it, but I set it up and ran some boards through both the jointer and the planer.
The conversion time is not too bad. You just lift up the jointer bed, flip over the dust shroud, and then crank away.
The process is simplified when you realize there's already a mark on the planer depth scale that shows you how far you have to crank the table down so that you can convert it back into jointer mode.