Powermatic 160 vs 180?

[Paul Cahill]

I am thinking of venturing into the world of "old arn". I have had a DW735 planer for several years and its performance is fine for what I have needed. It's loud, but with good ear protection that doesn't bother me. However, recently my wife has started commenting on the noise that resonates from the workshop. Given what the fix is, who am I to complain to her?http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon12.png

I have a reasonable amount of room, so I want to stay with a separate planer and jointer. I am in no rush and just getting started on pondering the possibilities (the thrill of the chase?). I like the idea of the old Powermatics as I have lived in Tennessee for over 20 years. I started out looking at the 160 just because it is not quite as heavy as the 180, but I have figured out the logistics of getting it into the basement and could manage the 180 too. So what I am wondering is if the 180 is simply a little bigger than the 160, or if there are any significant design differences. If I ended up going this route, I would install a Byrd head.

Thanks,
Paul

[Van Huskey]

I will let some of the other better equipped folks deal with the differences but I will say if you plan to replace it with a Byrd head you may look for one with a "Quiet Head" they are a segmented head PM used for a while and people don't like them so they usually sell for cheaper than a straight knife head.

[David Kumm]

Paul, go to www.owwm.org and ask as there are several versions of both the 160 and 180. In addition to the quiet head being unloved, planers without the grinders go for less and there was a time in the 1980's when the castings of the 180 were made in Asia and those are less desirable. I think from the time Houdaille (sp?) was involved. Pm made a 20" as well that wasn't much different in weight. You will find that all 20" and under planers were about 1300 lbs vs 2500 for the 24" heavy versions. If the size gets you the Rockwell RC 33 is a great candidate for a byrd head and is about 400 lbs. the smallest footprint 18" but the highest priced will be the Oliver 399. Dave

[Jeff Heath]

I'm restoring a PM 160 right now......from 1969. They are terrific planers, and the only difference between a 160 and 180 is 2" and maybe a 100 lbs or so.

As stated, they started coming from Taiwan in the 80's, so stick with something older and you will be fine.

I can't imagine wanting to spend $2000 give or take on a spiral cutting head for one of these. These old cast iron machines perform so much better than the tin cans made today in Asia......I don't think you will think that you will need it unless you are running highly, highly figured exotic woods through it constantly. If you're running North American hardwoods, the $$$ will not be rewarded in performance differences.

All my machines are of the OWWM ilk, and they run circles around anything you can buy new today, unless it comes from Northfield.

Jeff

[Paul Cahill]

Van/David/Jeff: Thanks for the comments.

Jeff: I was thinking of the Byrd head to get the sound level down as much as possible - which is my initial justification for pursuing this. I was under the impression it made a big difference, but I have never been around one of these big machines, straight blade or spiral.

Paul

[David Kumm]

Paul, those old planers with an onboard grinder can leave a pretty impressive finish. They should have both a grinding wheel and a jointing stone. Takes some practice and some courage the first time you joint the edges but with the larger diameter cutterhead, close set chipbreaker and pressure bar you have much less reason to wish for the spiral. Dave

[Jeff Heath]

These old beasts are much quieter than the Asian wood munchers. 1200 lbs. of cast iron does a terrific job of absorbing vibration, and thus, some of the noise.

My 24" Yates American jointer with 4 knife head is quieter than a 6" import jointer.

Jeff

[Paul Cahill]

These old beasts are much quieter than the Asian wood munchers. 1200 lbs. of cast iron does a terrific job of absorbing vibration, and thus, some of the noise.
Jeff

Interesting point. To a certain extent it will depend on what I come across. I also have to start thinking of the power side. I have a single phase, 30A, 220 circuit available. A lot of those old units have 3 phase motors.

Thanks,
Paul

[Van Huskey]

FYI a Byrd for the 160 should be under $1300 and for the 180 under $1500.

For 3 phase you could use an RPC or VFD, most 160's I have seen have been 5hp motors so figure in $500-750 to run it on single phase BUT you may start pushing the circuit...

[Jeff Heath]

Interesting point. To a certain extent it will depend on what I come across. I also have to start thinking of the power side. I have a single phase, 30A, 220 circuit available. A lot of those old units have 3 phase motors.

Thanks,
Paul

I built my 10 hp rotary phase converter for $400 using a 10 hp baldor 3 phase motor off clist for $100, $250 for a rotary panel from American Rotary (easy as pie to wire in less than an hour) and $50 in gas to drive 2 hours each way to pick up the panel.......I was in a hurry. You will most likely find a planer with a 5 hp motor. You will only need a 7.5 hp rotary phase converter to run that, and it will be able to also start and run future 3 phase machines that are added to your shop, 5 hp or less, in the future.

Every single machine in my shop except for one of my drill presses is 3 phase, and they are so much better and smoother running than single phase that it's not even funny. Once you absorb the cost of a rotary phase converter, and divide it amongst 3, 4, or (in my case) 15 machines, you'll be very happy with it. I can usually purchase 3 phase industrial machinery for at least half of what the single phase stuff goes for. Most people stay away from the 3 phase machines, so they are cheaper.

If you wanna take a ride up to Chicagoland, I'll be happy to show you what you need and get you started. American Rotary is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and they are a great bunch of guys.

Jeff

[Gregory Stahl]

Hi Paul,

I have a PM180 with a Byrd in it and would not trade it for anything. It is so quiet I can carry on a conversation with my wife while running 10"-wide maple through it! The knives were very loud, my upgrade to a Byrd was primarily for noise reduction. The Byrd is a fairly easy install and I got a good price from Holbren on it.

I would wait for a PM180 over the PM160 unless a great deal comes along. I paid about $1200 two years ago and mine was in excellent condition. Also, get one with segmented infeed rollers. Most of the yellow machines have this, but the older green machines may not.

And finally, check for the "Made in Taiwan" on the model plate if it is a late 80's machine.

Have fun hunting for one!
Greg Stahl

[Paul Cahill]

If you wanna take a ride up to Chicagoland, I'll be happy to show you what you need and get you started. American Rotary is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and they are a great bunch of guys.
Jeff
Jeff: thanks for the info. and the offer. I don't have any trips planned in your direction at the moment, but I will keep it in mind.

Paul

[Paul Cahill]

Hi Paul,
I would wait for a PM180 over the PM160 unless a great deal comes along. I paid about $1200 two years ago and mine was in excellent condition. Also, get one with segmented infeed rollers. Most of the yellow machines have this, but the older green machines may not.
And finally, check for the "Made in Taiwan" on the model plate if it is a late 80's machine.
Greg Stahl

Greg: Thanks for the guidance. I am not in any hurry. I have a friend who has a commercial woodshop locally (CNC work mostly) and I was thinking of enlisting his help in keeping eyes open. I keep an eye on Craig's but I am not sure how effective that is. I read about the mythical killer deal, but that may be somewhat wishful thinking.

Paul