Tips on Mortise Accuracy - Which method?

[Michael Koons]

I am in the process of working hard on the accuracy and precision of my woodworking. Recent efforts have included a much bigger effort in sharpening all tools, investments in accurate measuring gauges and guides, power tool tune-ups and even upgrades. (Many of those efforts guided by the great advice from this community. Thank you!)

I am now turning my attention to my mortising process. My current method involves a drill press and chisel and it is not producing the results I'd like. I fuss too long on set up and my mortises are not as accurate as I would like. I am currently evaluating my options including router table set-ups, homemade shop jigs (FWW has plans for one), Mortise Pal or a dedicated mortiser. Money is really not a factor up to about $500. I'd really like to find a solution that allows me repeatable accuracy without taking as long for set up as I do for the actual cutting.

What do you guys find is the best method to achieve what I'm looking for? Thanks again, in advance for the help.

[Ryan Brucks]

I have not made one of these yet, but I am going to make a pantorouter. Can make motises similiar to a slot mortiser and also make the tenons. very neat little tool.

http://woodgears.ca/pantorouter/

Maybe something to consider?

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a hollow chisel mortiser which is nice because it allows me to make deep mortises, it's quiet, and it doesn't spew dust everywhere.

Since I have a Euro jointer/planer I've been looking at slot mortisers, they're nice, and can do deep mortises also.

I also cut them by hand if I'm only making one or two..............Rod.

[Jamie Buxton]

I use a plunge router. For most joinery, it is guided by an edge guide. For some rare situations, I use a template guide and a shop-made template. The plunge router gives nice straight walls on the mortise. It also isn't too expensive. And it is useful for many other operations in the shop. For me, an issue with dedicated machines like hollow-chisel mortisers and slot mortisers is that they eat space in the shop all the time, and justify that space only when they're cutting mortises. In a big contrast, the plunge mortiser eats much less space, and gets used for many other things.

[Peter Quinn]

At that price point I'd look at a big plunge router and a shop made jig. I made a few templates on the router table that involved a slot in a piece of MDF which guides a brass bushing on a plunge router. THey can handle most furniture depth mortises, they are versatile, cheap, and highly accurate if you make them that way. Fairly quick too, but a bit messy, and as with any router operation, noisy. I bought a slot mortiser a few years back, and that is really my favorite method for non thru mortises. But an entry level slot mortiser (Laguna platinum) with tooling is nearly triple your budget. Unless you get a euro combo and add a slot mortiser to that, then its about 30X your budget, but you get a great jointer/planer too which adds versatility.

I've used a few chisel mortisers, and a bench top model may hit your price point. I used a general that worked well. Its almost more a matter of style and need which method you choose, many different options are equally accurate and relatively expedient.

[Bob Wingard]

Take a look at how John Nixon does it in his video at www.eaglelakewoodworking.com ... there is no single method or tool that is BEST for everybody ... at least not short of CNC. I have used John's methods, including a version of his powered router lift with great results. I can't say it's the best for you, but it certainly is worth trying ... once dialed-in, it is about as foolproof as it gets. For really deep mortises, I've used long endmills, and other than dulling a bit faster then carbide, provide great surfaces.


Here's the direct link to his Loose Tenon Joinery video ...

http://www.eaglelakewoodworking.com/post/Loose-Tenon-Joinery.aspx

[Jerry Thompson]

Bob;
I have never ueed an end mill in a router. Can one run them @ the same RPM as router bits?

[Bob Wingard]

I built some exterior entry doors with the FREUD package, and added some deep 1/2" loose tenons for extra strength ... I cut them with a long 1/2" 4 flute end mill, just because I had a few and wanted to give it a try. I slowed my BOSCH 1615EVS to it's minimum speed, and it did an admiral job. Material was Cypress, so I also made my tenon stock from same. Harder wood, I MIGHT have picked up the speed a little, but I doubt it. Using John Nixon's method, I was able to keep up the stock feed rate high enough that there was very little burning, even with the 4 flute bit.

[Mike Cutler]

Michael

I use a benchtop mortiser, with an XY sliding vise for the mortise, and a Delta Tenon Jig on the tablesaw.
The work has to be done in a linear fashion. Cut all of the mortises exactly the same way, at the same time, without changing the setup on the mortiser, and then tune up the tenon jig and cut all of the tenons at the same time. It is very,very, boring. All of your M&T stock has to be prepared at the same time to minimize any statistical deviations in thickness. It takes a little forethought.

Now to be honest, I am a traditional M&T guy that cuts integrated tenons. However, one of my projects had close to 700 M&T joints, and one close to 400 and by the end of those two I was reconsidering my "dogma". Floating tenons starting looking really attractive since then.

[Chris Parks]

My current method involves a drill press and chisel and it is not producing the results I'd like. I fuss too long on set up and my mortises are not as accurate as I would like. I am currently evaluating my options including router table set-ups, homemade shop jigs (FWW has plans for one), Mortise Pal or a dedicated mortiser. Money is really not a factor up to about $500. I'd really like to find a solution that allows me repeatable accuracy without taking as long for set up as I do for the actual cutting.

What do you guys find is the best method to achieve what I'm looking for? Thanks again, in advance for the help.

More practise, nothing more or less. Consider that apprentices would take years to become proficient and we in the modern way want to do it in five minutes so to speak. Choose a project that is not critical, maybe some cabs for the workshop and use that to practise on. Youtube is also a good medium to find video tutorials as well.

[Rick Lizek]

In 40 years of commercial shops the fastest and most accurate is the horizontal slot mortiser and loose tenons. Nothing else comes close. Just as fast in production runs and can throw in quick custom size in the middle of a run with a one minute change over.

[Mike Circo]

If you want to spend money, there are lots of options.

But in my case money WAS an issue, and I still wanted accuracy as my "free" methods were not as repeatable as I'd like. I got a Mortise-Pal and couldn't be happier. Easy, quick and accurate. I've tried dozens of methods, jigs, and tools to cut mortises over the last 20 years and this is still my favorite. For the $100 or so it cost, it paid me back in fewer recuts, waisted lumber and time. I love it. A simple concept executed in quality materials, at any cost it's a good tool.

Now if you are running a production shop, then blow the money on the other options discussed.

Just my experience.

[Michael Mayo]

If you want to spend money, there are lots of options.

But in my case money WAS an issue, and I still wanted accuracy as my "free" methods were not as repeatable as I'd like. I got a Mortise-Pal and couldn't be happier. Easy, quick and accurate. I've tried dozens of methods, jigs, and tools to cut mortises over the last 20 years and this is still my favorite. For the $100 or so it cost, it paid me back in fewer recuts, waisted lumber and time. I love it. A simple concept executed in quality materials, at any cost it's a good tool.

Now if you are running a production shop, then blow the money on the other options discussed.

Just my experience.

That is a very cool tool. But it isn't $100? It costs $209.00 which is a lot for a small one dimensional jig like that although I would consider purchasing it as it seems to be easy to use and repeatable.

http://www.mortisepal.com/storefront.html

The accessories and tenon stock is very reasonable though so it is a one time big purchase for the jig which makes it a little more palatable.

[Mike Circo]

The accessories and tenon stock is very reasonable though so it is a one time big purchase for the jig which makes it a little more palatable.

Oh... I usually use traditional Tenons. There is no requirement to use loose tenons with the jig, that's merely an option. I did use loose tenons once and it makes sizing a bit easier, but its not required.

I don't know how I got the price wrong. Although I did buy it a long while ago and perhaps got an "introductory" price. Still worth it in my view.

[Bill Huber]

That is a very cool tool. But it isn't $100? It costs $209.00 which is a lot for a small one dimensional jig like that although I would consider purchasing it as it seems to be easy to use and repeatable.

http://www.mortisepal.com/storefront.html

The accessories and tenon stock is very reasonable though so it is a one time big purchase for the jig which makes it a little more palatable.

The Mortise Pal is a good little jig, I have one and I make all my own tenons, they are very easy to make and you can make them out of the wood you want. Cut the strips on the table saw then round them over on the router table.

[James White]

You may have purchased the original version on close out when the new one came out.

James

[mreza Salav]

I have built and used extensively the following jig with excellent results. For doing end-grains just clamp a piece perpendicular to that (to make a T) so that the jig can ride on it side-to-side. One thing to note is that: always the location of the mortise w.r.t. the thickness of the board is critical to get flush joints. If you you keep your mortise a little
bit wider (not thicker) you will have a little bit of play side-to-side for your tenon to get it at the right location that you want. You won't loose anything in the strength of the joint as the
end-grain to face-grain glue-joint (at the ends of the mortise) don't provide any (or very little) strength to the joint.

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[Kirk Poore]

I think you'll find that a simple benchtop mortiser, if equipped with a good clamp and hold-downs, will be extremely accurate and have a quick setup time. You can check to make sure you're on your marks without having the machine on, and do fine adjustments as needed. The noise and dust will be much less than any router. And you'll be able to see what you're doing.

Kirk

[John Piwaron]

I have not made one of these yet, but I am going to make a pantorouter. Can make motises similiar to a slot mortiser and also make the tenons. very neat little tool.

http://woodgears.ca/pantorouter/


How can we combine that with this: http://www.jeffgreefwoodworking.com/pnc/vitrine/index3.html That's Jeff Greef's router device that makes a spherical surface. :) What's the connection? They're both fairly complicated jigs to get the router to do something.

[John Piwaron]

Bob;
I have never ueed an end mill in a router. Can one run them @ the same RPM as router bits?

Yes. I use them all the time for making mortises, dados and even rabbets.

[John Piwaron]

Pat Warner has a website where he shows his solution for using a router to cut mortises.

FWIW, I use a Delta table top mortising machine and a big plunge router. Most of the time it's the Delta hollow chisel mortiser. I learned along the way that the chisels supplied with it weren't particularly good for the purpose even after tuning them up. The nice Austrian made chisels Delta sells/sold are much better - they stay sharp longer and have an overall better build quality. There are similar hollow chisels available from Lee Valley. With good chisels and technique I think the hollow chisel mortiser is quick and easy to use.

When the project requires a mortise that's either bigger than the mortiser can do, or is otherwise located in a place that won't fit in it, then I use a plunge router with a shop made template. That method tends to yield better results. I use 2 flute solid carbide end mills for that. They allow plunging and get a nice vertical wall and make a clean flat bottom.

In both cases I like using 2 shop made tenon jigs on my tablesaw to cut the shoulders, cheeks and the ends of the tenons. Of course, some projects have parts too big for my jigs. Either physically big or just too long. Then I'll make a mortise and use a floating tenon.

I'm a hobbiest. Most of the time I'm not all that worried about justifying the cost, but there *are* limits. I won't be buying expensive machinery for this task. Those things are just beyond any kind of justification for me to make one of something. Most of the time I can't even justify it to myself solely for the purpose of owning a cool machine. The mortiser with the good chisels isn't "free" but it isn't especially expensive either. The big router is a jack of all trades.

[David Giles]

I've owned a mortising machine and the newer system using a hand drill, but the Mortice Pal is a step above either one. Joints are tight and the two wood pieces fit within several thousands of an inch. It does not work if the board is wider than 3-4", but a handheld plunge router with edge guide does fine for these mortises.

[glenn bradley]

I love the Mortise Pal and I have the rather simple original model. Within its designed range or sizes it is the best method I have found. I have done everything from picture frames (1/4" x 3/4" x 1" tenons) to Maloof styled tables (1/2" x 3" x 3-1/2" tenons).

[Troy Turner]

Money is really not a factor up to about $500. I'd really like to find a solution that allows me repeatable accuracy without taking as long for set up as I do for the actual cutting.



I've got a Steel City benchtop mortiser. Bought it a couple years ago to do some production work and loved it. Originally, I was cutting the mortises on the drill press then cleaning them up with a chisel. Got a good turn out, but production was SLOW. Convinced my finance manager (a.k.a the LOML) that I needed it and she said ok.

Man that thing was awesome. Once you get it setup WOW. And for your budget, you could probably get Top Shelf at that. I haven't used any of the others methods so I can't comment on those, just give you my opinion.

[Shawn Pixley]

I make mortises one of two ways. One is to go all neander on the stock. The second is a PM benchtop hollow chisel mortiser. With a modicum of care I have a high degree of accuracy. Find the method right for you and hone your technique.

[Jim Rimmer]

Here's a couple of videos on how I do mortises with a shop made jig. The jig is not an original with me and I could probably improve on it if I made another one. One video is small mortises requiring only a single plunge and then another video with longer mortises.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2KCIxnx7lk&list=UUO4XJL_GDUzqjtvceSDBO7w&index=10&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeiIh5vIcok&list=UUO4XJL_GDUzqjtvceSDBO7w&index=7&feature=plcp

I was having some problems with the plunge return mechanism on my router and a little wax on the jig would have helped.

[James White]

Jim,

A bit OT but, what are the headphones you are using in the second video?

James

[Chris Padilla]

I use a Festool Domino but that is north of your $500 budget.

[Charles Lent]

The Leigh Super FMT jig is available for about $500. It has the same capability as the FMT Pro, but is made from stamped steel parts instead of machined aluminum.

I have the FMT Pro jig and am extremely satisfied with it. The FMT is the only M&T jig that I know of that has a fine adjustment for tightness of joint fit. I can actually adjust the size of the mortises and tenons by thousandths of an inch to achieve exactly the tightness of fit that I desire, and I can cut both the mortise and the mating tenon with one jig setup. I have owned a Delta hollow chisel mortiser, a home made router mortising jig, and a Trend mortise and tenon jig. The FMT jig is far superior to them.

Charley

[Alan Lightstone]

The Leigh Super FMT jig is available for about $500. It has the same capability as the FMT Pro, but is made from stamped steel parts instead of machined aluminum.

I have the FMT Pro jig and am extremely satisfied with it. The FMT is the only M&T jig that I know of that has a fine adjustment for tightness of joint fit. I can actually adjust the size of the mortises and tenons by thousandths of an inch to achieve exactly the tightness of fit that I desire, and I can cut both the mortise and the mating tenon with one jig setup. I have owned a Delta hollow chisel mortiser, a home made router mortising jig, and a Trend mortise and tenon jig. The FMT jig is far superior to them.

Charley
I have been thinking about getting an FMT Pro jig myself. Was about to ask if anyone owned one. Outside of cost (which is far more than the OP wanted to spend), any disadvantages to it?

I also have a Laguna jointer/planer so I could get their mortiser attachment for it (nice because the machine is so powerful), but I thought that the FMT Pro would be more versatile. I also thought, due to the fine tuning available, that the FMT Pro would make very accurate and precise joinery.

[Charles Lent]

Alan,

I suggested that the OP consider the Leigh Super FMT for $500 because it is much cheaper than the FMT Pro jig, yet Leigh claims that it has the same capabilities. It's at the upper limit of his budget, but it will do a much better job than the other suggestions that have been offered.

The Leigh FMT jigs do make very precise and repeatable joints. You can make a mortise and matching tenon that can be pushed together easily by hand, and the fit so good that the vacuum created by pulling them back apart will cause an audible pop. The fine adjustment for fit makes this possible. Once adjusted for a desired tightness of fit, you can make them all day long with this same fit. Other than a CNC mill, I know of no other M&T jig on the market that can do this repeatably right out of the jig. The Leigh jigs will do everything that Leigh says they will do. They don't over sell their jigs in their advertising by making wild claims that are only possible under perfect conditions, as many other manufacturers frequently do. I have both an FMT (now called FMT Pro) and a D4R. Whenever I have had an error with either jig I have always traced it back to operator error. It has never been a failure of the jig. I wish some of my other woodworking equipment worked this well.

I don't work for Leigh Jigs and I never have. I'm just a very satisfied customer.

Charley

[John Gornall]

I'm totally positive on my FMT. I initially used a Makita 3612 router with great succes but it was heavy so I got a mid sized router and ran into trouble. I went back to the Makita and all was fine. I found that the smaller router, a very popular brand, had play in the plunge. One plunge rod was solid in a bushing but the other rod just passed through the casting and had a lot of play. I have tested a number of router brands and found play in many. A router with a precise plunge is essential with the FMT. Like to hear that "POP' when I pull a tennon out of a mortise - perfect fit.

[joseph f merz]

I love these Jigs .I started getting more furniure projects needing mortise/tenon joinery .I was looking at the different tools out there to purchase and there are some real nice ones .But the ones i liked were getting up there in expense .Then I realized a Domino [festool] wasn't so expensive [relatively ]. I have had it a few weeks now .It has certainly made fast work in the projects it has been used on .bummed that my lamello biscuit joiner is sitting unused more now .not to say one is better then the other -they are just different .though the domino limits my tenon size it is remarkable easy to use .

[John Piwaron]

I love these Jigs. Though the domino limits my tenon size it is remarkable easy to use .

Festool is introducing a larger Domino machine if that's of any help. Just out of curiosity, have you experienced the fence slipping issue? I did with mine, I nearly returned it because of that. That was February of this year. Fortunately I found a solution before it came to that.

[Myk Rian]

You don't need to fuss too much with a mortise. The tenon shoulders cover it anyway. All you need is it going straight.

[Charles Lent]

I have recently used my FMT to do some floating tenon joinery. It does a good job at this too, but of course the floating tenon stock can't be made with the FMT. For the tenon stock, I used my planer to cut the stock to thickness, then cut them to width on the table saw, and finally rounded the edges on the router table. This worked well, but the fit wasn't as perfect as with the FMT made tenons. Why floating tenons? That's a good question. I did it more to see how well it would work than to fit a specific need. The results were acceptable, but my floating tenons did not end up fitting as well as the tenons that get made by the FMT. When you do it this way you are depending on many tools to prepare the floating tenons and setup errors, however small, can affect the outcome. When using the FMT for both the mortise and the tenon you are using the same setup to cut both, so there are no accumulating errors. I bought my FMT several years before the Mortise Pal, the Domino, and similar floating tenon jigs became available and I just wanted to try floating tenons to see if floating tenons are any better. A friend has a Mortise Pal that I have played with and it does work good for cutting the mortises, but you must still make your own tenon stock and get it to fit the mortise correctly. I haven't tried a Domino yet. It looks interesting, but none of my friends own one so I can't borrow theirs to try.

An FMT Pro jig is expensive, and I probably wouldn't own one today if I hadn't taken on a job that required cutting over 1600 M&T joints, a daunting task with the conventional M&T joinery methods that were available 9 years ago. My FMT jig easily paid for itself with that one job.

Charley

[Mark W Pugh]

I haven't got one of these, but it looks like it may be a future purchase.

http://www.generaltools.com/870--EZ-PRO-MORTISE-AND-TENON-JIG_p_1295.html

Or, you could build your own jig.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/Main/Articles/Skill_Builder_Loose_Tenon_Joinery_with_a_Router_90 64.aspx

[Jerome Hanby]

If you get that General jig, I';d love to know what you think of it. I keep seeing it int he WW mags...


I haven't got one of these, but it looks like it may be a future purchase.

http://www.generaltools.com/870--EZ-PRO-MORTISE-AND-TENON-JIG_p_1295.html

Or, you could build your own jig.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/Main/Articles/Skill_Builder_Loose_Tenon_Joinery_with_a_Router_90 64.aspx

[Charles Lent]

Be careful...The General jig is very similar to the Trend jig that I had. They don't have the adjustment that lets you fine tune the fit of the tenon to the mortise. The only M&T jig that I know of that has this capability is the Leigh FMT system, either the Super or the Pro version. With these other jigs you will get a joint that's close, but it may be either too tight or too loose (more likely too loose) and you will have to come up with ways to shim the fit if you want it better. I was so unhappy with my Trend jig that I threw it in the corner and left it there until a friend came by and noticed it. He wanted to try it, even after I told him why it was in the corner, so I gave it to him. I hated that thing.

Charley

[Chris Padilla]

Festool is introducing a larger Domino machine if that's of any help. Just out of curiosity, have you experienced the fence slipping issue? I did with mine, I nearly returned it because of that. That was February of this year. Fortunately I found a solution before it came to that.

John, can you explain a bit more on your fence slipping issue with the Domino? I think if it isn't properly supported, it can cut non-straight mortises due to tilting of the Domino body but as long as you pay attention, you can correct this.